BBC Panorama this evening

[Wildcamper]

Would people be expected to carry them? If not, there’s no benefit in mandating them.

I’m not in favour because it is too much interference by Government.

Citizens need to be accountable and reap the benefits of a stable accountable environment. You think the, any, Government does not already interfere with its citizens.

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

I think we should have ID cards. The sooner the better.

Microchipped at birth, even better

 

[Amarillo]

Why?

Do you wish to hide your identity? and if so , Why?

Do you have a Passport or Driving Licence? Many countries insist on carrying a form of identification, or driving Licence + insurance details if driving.

I have a passport and driving licence. I carry them when overseas but not for walking the dog or cycling the boys to school.

 

[RodCouncil]

I have a passport and driving licence. I carry them when overseas but not for walking the dog or cycling the boys to school.

The point isn't the physical card.

 

[Amarillo]

Yes they are, but no harm done if you don't because you have a personal number that can be checked, DoB+4 digits here in Sweden.

On your second point you're talking absolute sh*te

A majority in Parliament don’t agree with ID cards.

 

[Amarillo]

The point isn't the physical card.

We all have NI numbers for identification if required.

 

[Amarillo]

Citizens need to be accountable and reap the benefits of a stable accountable environment. You think the, any, Government does not already interfere with its citizens.

Yes, of course the government interferes. They interfere enough already.

 

[RodCouncil]

A majority in Parliament don’t agree with ID cards.

As I said, the card is a proxy to your unique id, issue with driving licenses and passports is many don't have them, they expire and connect you to only 1 system of record.

The point is, the UK is in the steam age and there is a silver bullet to solve this issue of knowing who did what if caught / stopped (cyclists in this scenario) and a million other more useful benefits.

We all have NI numbers for identification if required.

Under 16s do not.

 

[Velma's Dad]

We all have NI numbers for identification if required.

That's not quite true. You only need to have an NI number if you're working, or looking for work. A lot of people living "legally" in the UK don't actually have an NI number, for various legitimate reasons - eg asylum seekers who have not yet been granted leave to remain, and therefore not permitted to work.

So it's not a universal identity system.

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

A majority in Parliament don’t agree with ID cards.

I really don’t get the objection to ID cards?

Most people carry ID with them anyway i.e. Plastic Drivers Licence; Debit/Credit Cards; Loyalty Cards; Mobile Phone; Donor Card; Covid Cards; Membership Cards; etc; etc.

Furthermore, if anybody uses a Smart Phone, then Google and Social Media companies have tens of thousands of data points on each individual.

 

[Velma's Dad]

I really don’t get the objection to ID cards?

Most people carry ID with them anyway i.e. Plastic Drivers Licence; Debit/Credit Cards; Loyalty Cards; Mobile Phone; Donor Card; Covid Cards; Membership Cards; etc; etc.

Furthermore, if anybody uses a Smart Phone, then Google and Social Media companies have tens of thousands of data points on each individual.

The objection isn't based on what people choose to do, with their phones, credit cards etc, it's the principle of the state being able to compel every individual to be registered on a state controlled database, whether they wish to be or not.

As has been said above, it's not about having to carry a card on your person, it's about the government having full access to at least some data about you.

(Personally i think a compulsory ID system is on balance necessary in a modern state, however I understand and respect the views of people who disagree with me on that).

 

[Amarillo]

As I said, the card is a proxy to your unique id, issue with driving licenses and passports is many don't have them, they expire and connect you to only 1 system of record.

The point is, the UK is in the steam age and there is a silver bullet to solve this issue of knowing who did what if caught / stopped (cyclists in this scenario) and a million other more useful benefits.

Under 16s do not.

Oh Lordy! They are to be issued to babies!?

 

[Amarillo]

I really don’t get the objection to ID cards?

Most people carry ID with them anyway i.e. Plastic Drivers Licence; Debit/Credit Cards; Loyalty Cards; Mobile Phone; Donor Card; Covid Cards; Membership Cards; etc; etc.

Furthermore, if anybody uses a Smart Phone, then Google and Social Media companies have tens of thousands of data points on each individual.

The point is that we don’t have to carry any of them. The issuing of ID cards comes with the requirement to carry them at least for some purposes, and if not, why issue them?

Read up on Stephen Gough (the Naked Rambler). He thinks the requirement to wear clothing is going too far.

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

The objection isn't based on what people choose to do, with their phones, credit cards etc, it's the principle of the state being able to compel every individual to be registered on a state controlled database, whether they wish to be or not.

As has been said above, it's not about having to carry a card on your person, it's about the government having full access to at least some data about you.

(Personally i think a compulsory ID system is on balance necessary in a modern state, however I understand and respect the views of people who disagree with me on that).

But @Velma's Dad the State already has plenty of data on each individual unless they’re operating here illegally. For example you will have NI and NHS numbers.

 

[RodCouncil]

Oh Lordy! They are to be issued to babies!?

Of course they are issued at birth or when you are legally registered to live, work or become a citizen.

The card is for convenience, the id when checked by say the Police is very hard to dream up, and the naughty person riding their bike illegally on the pavement sadly gets their fine automatically, or the parent who is linked to them by.......yes you guessed it, their personal number.

Let me lay a few advantages on you:
Zero need for pieces of paper to approve anything (do you think we need our rumbelows proof of purchase for our first washing machine, or gas bill to open a bank account)
Travel to anywhere in the EU (Schengen) obviously with the card
Using any online or digital service (with bankID)
Covid pass (yes you guessed it digital with bar code, implemented in a few days)
All banking, insurances, car registration linked to it etc etc etc
The list is very long

BTW it's issued by the tax agency too, so no escaping those folks.

Maybe you can talk me through these downsides that Government will do with this data point?

 

[Velma's Dad]

But @Velma's Dad the State already has plenty of data on each individual unless they’re operating here illegally. For example you will have NI and NHS numbers.

True, but without a unique universal identifier it's not been feasible for the government to create a joined-up picture of an individual's behaviour and connections, unless the name is unique and most are not, and actually many people quite legally use aliases, deliberately or incidentally (eg might have given their name as Hamid, Hamed or Mohammed to various agencies at various times).

People on the anti-ID "card" side of the debate feel that the state does not have a right to know everything about you, unless you consent.

(Although actually, Big Data methods mean that it's become relative simple to find links within disparate datasets and the government's security agencies can certainly do that to some degree).

 

[westfalia]

Ricky Sunak has family ties to a technology partner of the
WEF that has advocated for a Chinese communist party-style economy
complete with trackable, digital identities and currency.

His father in law - Akshata Murthy founder of Infosys. So it will be coming
soon enough.

 

[Amarillo]

Of course they are issued at birth or when you are legally registered to live, work or become a citizen.

The card is for convenience, the id when checked by say the Police is very hard to dream up, and the naughty person riding their bike illegally on the pavement sadly gets their fine automatically, or the parent who is linked to them by.......yes you guessed it, their personal number.

Let me lay a few advantages on you:
Zero need for pieces of paper to approve anything (do you think we need our rumbelows proof of purchase for our first washing machine, or gas bill to open a bank account)
Travel to anywhere in the EU (Schengen) obviously with the card
Using any online or digital service (with bankID)
Covid pass (yes you guessed it digital with bar code, implemented in a few days)
All banking, insurances, car registration linked to it etc etc etc
The list is very long

BTW it's issued by the tax agency too, so no escaping those folks.

Maybe you can talk me through these downsides that Government will do with this data point?

It is not me you need to convince. It is MPs who decide these matters for us.

The ID card sounds like an extension of the NI number - just issued at birth.

 

[GrannyJen]

It is not me you need to convince. It is MPs who decide these matters for us.

I am ashamed of you Tom

The MP's work for us, not the other way round.

 

[westfalia]

The MP's work for us, not the other way round.

You old romantic, you.

 

[GrannyJen]

You old romantic, you.

I know. I still believe in Santa Claus,

I met him in Selfridges

 

[sidepod]

I think the real issue here is the mind set/attitude of the average Brit.
It’s all about somehow trying to educate the population into being kinder more caring considerate humble individuals rather than just a bunch of twats who only care about themselves and how quickly they can get to their next confrontation.

 

[RodCouncil]

I think the real issue here is the mind set/attitude of the average Brit.
It’s all about somehow trying to educate the population into being kinder more caring considerate humble individuals rather than just a bunch of twats who only care about themselves and how quickly they can get to their next confrontation.

Sadly the fourth estate of the media do very little to level the discourse, and if people can't think rationally day to day or discern what is true or false, right or wrong......

...well maybe what the Cali Euthanasia tourist board is offering isn't so bad after all

 

[Amarillo]

I am ashamed of you Tom

The MP's work for us, not the other way round.

And here’s me wondering how the apostrophe in “The MP’s work for us” changes the meaning from that which (I think) you intended.

 

[Magic Bus]

Why do people hate cyclists? Because they are an outgroup. Much like foreigners, various religious groups, etc and to a lesser extent BMW and Audi drivers. I’ll wager that most people on this forum are not that keen on big, white motor homes - another outgroup.

Cyclists don’t help themselves by wearing funny clothes, dressing up as an imperial stormtrooper just to go cycling. I know, I’m one. I wear funny clothes, Lycra shorts, shoes that you can’t walk in, mirror sunglasses, a big black helmet, the whole shebang.

I don’t “jump” red lights and I don’t condone it. However, some people cross a junction on the pedestrIan phase to get a head start on the traffic. What’s safer? Riding off on your own or with a few other cyclists, or starting off with all the other traffic, most of whom just want you to get out of their way. What’s needed is a “cyclists phase“ at light, where you are released 10 seconds early, ahead of the other traffic, so you can get out of their way. But that’s not going to happen, due to the cost of implementing it.

Red light jumping by cyclists is endemic in London, but I don’t believe it is elsewhere. I commuted by bike all my working life, to the centre of several big cities and I didn’t see it and I don’t see it now, except when I visit my son in London.

ID plates for cyclists may be a good idea, but they are just not practical. Where would you put them on a bike? If you did have them, they’d have to be so small as to be unreadable. I and other cyclists aren’t going to wear a ridiculous tabard with an ID number on it either.