Buying older used California

[GrumpyGranddad]

View attachment 88971
The darker areas are just the nap of the alcantara which is very suede like.
View attachment 88972View attachment 88973
Small mark on back seat base.

Really great condition for a 14 year old Cali’. Did you ever use seat covers?

 

[WelshGas]

EGR cooler. If still unbranded - walk away. If its an A (doubt it) walk way - If its an C or D, walk away as its been changed to try and deal with the issue.

Same milage as mine, but mine is a 2015 on a C cooler. Cooler now emulated and blanked. Hence the lowering aluminum content

2014 180, A EGR, 106,000 miles. Oil consumption 250 mls/20,000 miles.
Do explain why I don’t suffer this problem.
Oh, and before you ask, Oil Contaminants all within Normal/ Expected levels , test carried out 10,000 miles after Oil Change and milage at the time of the test, 90,000 miles.

 

[Lambeth Cali]

Really great condition for a 14 year old Cali’. Did you ever use seat covers?

No, and I’ve owned it for 13 of 14 years. I probably wear jeans half the time which you would think would rub off a bit.
It’s 14 years but only about 55,000 miles.
I mean I’ve hardly ever got in it wet or covered in mud, we don’t have a dog and err we don’t actually sit and/or eat in the van much because we camp mainly abroad and like eating and cooking in the sun.

I once had a mini crisis and thought the general ‘as new’ condition of our van meant I was a bad parent and too strict but I don’t think I am. Whenever we get back from a long drive I have to brush a million crumbs off the back seats.
If we were camping with friends and I heard the word “Ribena” I probably would instinctively shout “where? what? NO!”

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

No, and I’ve owned it for 13 of 14 years. I probably wear jeans half the time which you would think would rub off a bit.
It’s 14 years but only about 55,000 miles.
I mean I’ve hardly ever got in it wet or covered in mud, we don’t have a dog and err we don’t actually sit and/or eat in the van much because we camp mainly abroad and like eating and cooking in the sun.

I once had a mini crisis and thought the general ‘as new’ condition of our van meant I was a bad parent and too strict but I don’t think I am. Whenever we get back from a long drive I have to brush a million crumbs off the back seats.
If we were camping with friends and I heard the word “Ribena” I probably would instinctively shout “where? what? NO!”

Nevertheless, seats have really stood the test of time.

 

[calibusje]

Whenever we get back from a long drive I have to brush a million crumbs off the back seats.

It's the sweeping crumbs that keep them in such good shape then

 

[pjm-84]

2014 180, A EGR, 106,000 miles. Oil consumption 250 mls/20,000 miles.
Do explain why I don’t suffer this problem.
Oh, and before you ask, Oil Contaminants all within Normal/ Expected levels , test carried out 10,000 miles after Oil Change and milage at the time of the test, 90,000 miles.

Lets turns this the other way around WG? Why is my aluminium content in the oil dropping post EGR blanking.

 

[pjm-84]

Similalry why do we have numerous incarnations of the EGR cooler?

Nice pictures here of "consumed" aluminium fins

VW Transporter T5.1 / T6 excessive oil use for CFCA 2.0 180hp BiTDi engines - EGR Cooler failure - Hypermiler.co.uk

VW Transporter T5.1 / T6 excessive oil use for CFCA 2.0 180hp BiTDi engines - EGR Cooler failure - Hypermiler.co.uk

www.hypermiler.co.uk

 

[WelshGas]

Similalry why do we have numerous incarnations of the EGR cooler?

Nice pictures here of "consumed" aluminium fins

VW Transporter T5.1 / T6 excessive oil use for CFCA 2.0 180hp BiTDi engines - EGR Cooler failure - Hypermiler.co.uk

VW Transporter T5.1 / T6 excessive oil use for CFCA 2.0 180hp BiTDi engines - EGR Cooler failure - Hypermiler.co.uk

www.hypermiler.co.uk

If you and others are correct then EVERY engine with the A EGR will suffer the same problem.
They don’t.
And to answer your question, why is my Al levels within normal tolerances after 100,000 + miles?

 

[pjm-84]

Just because all engine dont have the problem doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist. Similarly when the problem does occur, the engine goes quickly. People who have had these engine issues are now cutting their cooler open and the erosion on the fins is consistent. This is the aluminium content within the oil. Mine has now dropped as its blanked.

Another classic example is the snapped cranks on the TDV6. They all snap in the same place. But not every engine breaks. I've seen some at 45k miles snapped and others at 210k+ miles still going strong. Its a lottery. That said, as its an inherent known problem warranty companies will now exclude this from their terms. This includes LR's own extended warranty company.

 

[2into1]

I was going to say to @pjm-84 that he is wasting his time arguing with welshgas over failing biturbo engines. But you are not. The more that hear about the problems, from different posters, the wiser and more thankful they will be. I do the arguing once a year with him. 8 months, 22 days and 10 hours until it is my turn again!

 

[calibusje]

I don’t know much about engines but here's an anecdote that I remember of what I experienced about five years ago.
Then I was looking for a used T5 california, having a T4 westfalia with the 2.4 l five-cylinder engine with just under 300,000 km (about 186,000 miles), my garage owner (official vw dealer) said that “there are also ‘some’ of those specific engines who get that mileage… but better stay away from it”. We didn't have a budget for a youngster with the 4-cylinder engine at the time. Of the 5-cilinders with lesser hp he had also none and had to find one (harder to find and rather expensive at the time…). He said better to keep the T4 for now.
Now we ordered a T6.1 coast ‘a long time ago’ and still go on a journey with the old faithful westfalia
But I do believe few have the best of the worst engine there is in a T5 cali and suffer no noticeable damage or describe it as ‘within tolerance’. That is very good for them and they are indeed ‘those who get that mileage’.
Of course this is only my story and everyone has their own idea about this.

 

[WelshGas]

I was going to say to @pjm-84 that he is wasting his time arguing with welshgas over failing biturbo engines. But you are not. The more that hear about the problems, from different posters, the wiser and more thankful they will be. I do the arguing once a year with him. 8 months, 22 days and 10 hours until it is my turn again!

The fact that no one can explain why some EGR's disintegrate and others do not means the problem must be multifactorial in nature. The fact that you and others won't accept this argument doesn't mean you have the right to rubbish all 180's.
If the EGR is responsible on its own only then there would be a lot more evidence.
I don't know why some fail and others do not, nor does VW, or at least they are not saying if they do know, and nor do you and your followers who publish this unproven theory that the EGR and only the EGR is responsible.

 

[clarinetbcn]

The fact that no one can explain why some EGR's disintegrate and others do not means the problem must be multifactorial in nature. The fact that you and others won't accept this argument doesn't mean you have the right to rubbish all 180's.
If the EGR is responsible on its own only then there would be a lot more evidence.
I don't know why some fail and others do not, nor does VW, or at least they are not saying if they do know, and nor do you and your followers who publish this unproven theory that the EGR and only the EGR is responsible.

The fact remains that only 180 aluminum EGR coolers send aluminum oxide through the intake to rip up the bore. That they all don't do it doesn't change the fact that none of the VW engines with non-aluminum EGRs have this problem. As long as VW can't or won't give information about what circumstances cause a 180 aluminum EGR cooler to destroy the engine, they are all suspect, and any one could go when reaching 60,000-80,000 miles. I'm glad that you haven't had this bad luck, but your constant efforts to mislead forum members about the dangers of owning this problematic model are a disservice to members looking for information before buying. This forum is supposed to be a source of information. Your posts on this topic constitute disinformation, and while I have no respect for the lack of accountability you have shown, I must say I have a sad admiration for the misplaced self certainty that allows you to try mislead an entire community on this topic. Fortunately others here will call you on it.

I've done some reflecting on this, and there is an analogy. In my near half-century of playing in symphony orchestras, it has been distressing to see how many musicians, friends, die in their early 50s from work related health issues, mostly related to stress. If you make it through your early 50s, you're probably going to be Ok, but it would be disinformation to say that because all musicians don't die at 50, there are not work-related issues that put the health of musicians at risk. If these health issues are ignored and their existence is denied, and cautionary measures not put in place, any musician can have an (otherwise avoidable) catastrophic health issue.

Another analogy is the relationship between concussions and early onset dementia of football players, but I think you get my point.

Edit: Yes, I am still working, why wouldn't I, it's my passion, and no, I don't have dementia.

 

[Amarillo]

Oh we live about 100 metres inside ULEZ. It will add £25 to our holidays. It will add £12 to a day out if we go in the van. We'll use our car a bit more. I still agree with ULEZ.

That’s bad luck. We live about 100m outside the ULEZ, and with Khan taking of making it the Hyper Low Emissions Zone (free for electric only) and Lewisham expanding its Low Traffic Neighbourhoods, I’m seriously considering a Citroen Ami so I can silently zip between those planters.

I still agree with the ULEZ and LTNs.

 

[WelshGas]

The fact remains that only 180 aluminum EGR coolers send aluminum oxide through the intake to rip up the bore. That they all don't do it doesn't change the fact that none of the VW engines with non-aluminum EGRs have this problem. As long as VW can't or won't give information about what circumstances cause a 180 aluminum EGR cooler to destroy the engine, they are all suspect, and any one could go when reaching 60,000-80,000 miles. I'm glad that you haven't had this bad luck, but your constant efforts to mislead forum members about the dangers of owning this problematic model are a disservice to members looking for information before buying. This forum is supposed to be a source of information. Your posts on this topic constitute disinformation, and while I have no respect for the lack of accountability you have shown, I must say I have a sad admiration for the misplaced self certainty that allows you to try mislead an entire community on this topic. Fortunately others here will call you on it.

I've done some reflecting on this, and there is an analogy. In my near half-century of playing in symphony orchestras, it has been distressing to see how many musicians, friends, die in their early 50s from work related health issues, mostly related to stress. If you make it through your early 50s, you're probably going to be Ok, but it would be disinformation to say that because all musicians don't die at 50, there are not work-related issues that put the health of musicians at risk. If these health issues are ignored and their existence is denied, and cautionary measures not put in place, any musician can have an (otherwise avoidable) catastrophic health issue.

Another analogy is the relationship between concussions and early onset dementia of football players, but I think you get my point.

Edit: Yes, I am still working, why wouldn't I, it's my passion, and no, I don't have dementia.

I have NOT given Disinformation to Forum members, on the contrary I have given correct information.
There are 2 problems with the CFCA BiTurbo engine.
1. SOME Engines manufactured between 2010/2012 had a manufacturing fault - unconnected with the EGR that VW addressed in their TPI of the 26th October 2016 - see enclosed for your information.

2. Post 2012 SOME CFCA engines have suffered increased oil consumption due to corrosion within the EGR Oil Cooler and damage to the piston bore due to Aluminium particles released. What causes this corrosion to occur in some engines is not known. Is it a manufacturing fault or some other condition, wrong oil/driving style/prolonged laying up of vehicle etc:

I have always ensured that prospective purchasers are aware of these problems, but also to ensure the lies that you and others constantly spout " that all 180s should be avoided at all costs " are challenged as there is NO EVIDENCE for that lie. Whether the EGR is the root cause or a symptom has yet to be proved hence as long as you are aware and have a plan and the resources if it should occur there is nothing wrong in purchasing a 180.

So get of your high horse and stop peddling lies that you have no evidence to back up.

If you want the rest of the TPI , its already been posted on the Forum.

 

[pjm-84]

You need to join the FB user group WG. Plenty of issues post 2012, with - A, C and now the odd D cooler.

All I can say is mine is on 56k miles, was emulated / blanked at 44k, has had regular annual oil changes (6 to 8k) and now the aluminum content is finally dropped to acceptable levels.

 

[Ozzy Pete]

Some people say that smoking gives you lung cancer. Others have smoked 60 a day for 60 years and are still fairly fit and healthy. My choice is to avoid smoking just in case I’m one of the unlucky ones. It doesn’t happen to everyone but to avoid it you keep off the fags.

 

[clarinetbcn]

Some people say that smoking gives you lung cancer. Others have smoked 60 a day for 60 years and are still fairly fit and healthy. My choice is to avoid smoking just in case I’m one of the unlucky ones. It doesn’t happen to everyone but to avoid it you keep off the fags.

Did you see the post where WG denies that smoking causes cancer?

Losing oil somewhere?

If it was the EGR solely at fault would you please, please explain why only SOME 180 engines are affected? I look forward to your expert opinion. NB CFCA engines from MY 2010 to 2012 are accepted as having a fault, admitted as such by VW. Not the case in this instance. I await your response...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

"No, unfortunately not.
If smoking was the primary cause, everyone who ever smoked would develope lung cancer. Doesn’t happen I’m afraid.
Try again?"

By that reasoning, does WG think you should go ahead and smoke, even though no one knows who will get cancer as a result, as long as you "have a plan and resources" if you do?

 

[Ozzy Pete]

Did you see the post where WG denies that smoking causes cancer?

Losing oil somewhere?

If it was the EGR solely at fault would you please, please explain why only SOME 180 engines are affected? I look forward to your expert opinion. NB CFCA engines from MY 2010 to 2012 are accepted as having a fault, admitted as such by VW. Not the case in this instance. I await your response...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

"No, unfortunately not.
If smoking was the primary cause, everyone who ever smoked would develope lung cancer. Doesn’t happen I’m afraid.
Try again?"

By that reasoning, does WG think you should go ahead and smoke, even though no one knows who will get cancer as a result, as long as you "have a plan and resources" if you do?

As you get older life becomes more precious by the day. I do my best to eat as healthily as I can. I don’t drink alcohol or smoke ( not that I haven’t in the distant past). I want to live as long as I can within reason. I try and avoid owning things that are going to cause me problems within reason. Why would I want to own something that is documented likely to cause me even more problems? I would really like to spend the rest of my life reasonably trouble free. Is that a bad thing?.

 

[WelshGas]

Did you see the post where WG denies that smoking causes cancer?

Losing oil somewhere?

If it was the EGR solely at fault would you please, please explain why only SOME 180 engines are affected? I look forward to your expert opinion. NB CFCA engines from MY 2010 to 2012 are accepted as having a fault, admitted as such by VW. Not the case in this instance. I await your response...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

"No, unfortunately not.
If smoking was the primary cause, everyone who ever smoked would develope lung cancer. Doesn’t happen I’m afraid.
Try again?"

By that reasoning, does WG think you should go ahead and smoke, even though no one knows who will get cancer as a result, as long as you "have a plan and resources" if you do?

Clutching at straws again. To be expected when you are unable to refute the evidence.

As regards Smoking - there is also a genetic element.

 

[pjm-84]

To help WG understand. As a cyclist I've never gone through a red light. As such cyclists do not go through red lights. Explain that!

Only joking..... and I accept your opinion and contribution to the Forum!

 

[Lambeth Cali]

I’m not even sure he’s Welsh!

JOKE

 

[WelshGas]

To help WG understand. As a cyclist I've never gone through a red light. As such cyclists do not go through red lights. Explain that!

Only joking..... and I accept your opinion and contribution to the Forum!

If I was the Only 180 owner without this problem, I would agree with you. Fortunately I'm not and if there was a Facebook group of 180 owners without this problem I think it would be considerably larger, but that would never happen.
NB : I'm not referring to the 2010/2012 problem, recognised by VW.

 

[sapto]

[mention]Mrb08 [/mention] how fare are you in the process of buying? Hope you find what you're looking for

 

[clarinetbcn]

As regards Smoking - there is also a genetic element.

Or they sat for too long, or lubricated themselves with the wrong beverage, or their life style caused the cancer...but clearly it wasn't the smoking. The important thing is it's their fault, not the cigarettes'.

"Is it a manufacturing fault or some other condition, wrong oil/driving style/prolonged laying up of vehicle etc"