Buying older used California

[WelshGas]

Or they sat for too long, or lubricated themselves with the wrong beverage, or their daily habits caused the cancer...but clearly it wasn't the smoking.

An expert talking I see. Didn’t know you were an expert in Respiratory Medicine, I thought you just played the Clarinet.
Which International Conferences have you attended?

 

[2into1]

It's seems @WelshGas position is as follows:
If you don't believe smoking causes cancer, then you don't need to worry that your 180's egr cooler will destroy your engine.

 

[reserves]

I’ve owned

T5 2008 2.5 / 174 bhp
T5.1 2014 140
T6 2018 150 bhp

There’s no doubt that the T5.1 onwards feels a little more refined, quieter and the dash is a lot nicer.

However the camping stuff hasn’t changed much at all over the years.

The T6 is the nicer drive but not by much, it’s an auto which is nice compared to the others which are manuals.

Except for ULEZ the T5 / T5.1 offer way better value in my opinion, given that at the current time you’re looking at:

T5 £25k upwards
T5.1 £32k upwards
T6 £47k upwards

 

[pjm-84]

Okay will try another way.

1. Does aluminum content in the engine oil cause wear of the engine, etc? Its agreed in the industry that this does with 30part per million being the line in the sand
2. My 2015, Type C cooler, even with annual oil changes, typically around the 6-8k mark, was reading 72ppm of aluminum at first test on an oil mileage sample of only 5500miles
3. 72ppm at 5500 miles, assuming a base line of 0 after the oil change (not viable), would continue its upward trend. SO 144ppm at 11000miles
4. EGR cooler no suffix, A suffix, C suffix and now D suffix
5. If A was fine, why C
6. If C was fine, why D
7. A further test after blanking indicated a reduction but still an high reading >50
8. Test now after 4400miles and 10k after blanking has a reading of 14
9. 14 <30 ... so good.
10. My Cali doesn't use oil and now has less aluminum in the oil to chew on.

Only change was blanking of the EGR cooler. So source of aluminum within the oil can only have come from the EGR cooler. All other elements are equal.

Now if you believe that oil should have aluminum particles and this doesn't cause wear then I would agree that there is no proof that this engine suffers the same issue.

 

[WelshGas]

It's seems @WelshGas position is as follows:
If you don't believe smoking causes cancer, then you don't need to worry that your 180's egr cooler will destroy your engine.

Incorrect, as usual.
One day you'll understand the difference. Probably my posts are too subtle to understand. My apologies , I'm used to discussing such things with fellow medics.

 

[WelshGas]

Okay will try another way.

1. Does aluminum content in the engine oil cause wear of the engine, etc? Its agreed in the industry that this does with 30part per million being the line in the sand
2. My 2015, Type C cooler, even with annual oil changes, typically around the 6-8k mark, was reading 72ppm of aluminum at first test on an oil mileage sample of only 5500miles
3. 72ppm at 5500 miles, assuming a base line of 0 after the oil change (not viable), would continue its upward trend. SO 144ppm at 11000miles
4. EGR cooler no suffix, A suffix, C suffix and now D suffix
5. If A was fine, why C
6. If C was fine, why D
7. A further test after blanking indicated a reduction but still an high reading >50
8. Test now after 4400miles and 10k after blanking has a reading of 14
9. 14 <30 ... so good.
10. My Cali doesn't use oil and now has less aluminum in the oil to chew on.

Only change was blanking of the EGR cooler. So source of aluminum within the oil can only have come from the EGR cooler. All other elements are equal.

Now if you believe that oil should have aluminum particles and this doesn't cause wear then I would agree that there is no proof that this engine suffers the same issue.

No one is disputing that disintegration of the EGR causes the problem.. BUT what causes this disintegration when there are high milage 180's on the original EGR without high oil usage and normal Aluminium content. If it is purely the EGR responsible then all would be affected. Cause and effect. Is the EGR the cause or the effect of something else.

 

[Ozzy Pete]

I’ve owned

T5 2008 2.5 / 174 bhp
T5.1 2014 140
T6 2018 150 bhp

There’s no doubt that the T5.1 onwards feels a little more refined, quieter and the dash is a lot nicer.

However the camping stuff hasn’t changed much at all over the years.

The T6 is the nicer drive but not by much, it’s an auto which is nice compared to the others which are manuals.

Except for ULEZ the T5 / T5.1 offer way better value in my opinion, given that at the current time you’re looking at:

T5 £25k upwards
T5.1 £32k upwards
T6 £47k upwards

I bet there’s lots thinking I wish I could get a 5.1 for £32k. But depends on miles and condition. I was offered less than that for mine from the dealer I originally bought it from when it was only 2 years old and 10k miles. Oh how times have changed.

 

[pjm-84]

No one is disputing that disintegration of the EGR causes the problem.. BUT what causes this disintegration when there are high milage 180's on the original EGR without high oil usage and normal Aluminium content. If it is purely the EGR responsible then all would be affected. Cause and effect. Is the EGR the cause or the effect of something else.

If the aluminum content is within normal levels then the logic conclusion would be that the fins on the EGR cooler are not breaking down. VG Guru offered a possible explanation. I believed linked to driving style / use / heat generation / fuel quality. I wouldn't have fallen into any of the those categories but had a 72ppm reading

It may be the manufacturing process of the cooler that's to blame and any variables that come into play.

 

[flying banana]

As you get older life becomes more precious by the day. I do my best to eat as healthily as I can. I don’t drink alcohol or smoke ( not that I haven’t in the distant past). I want to live as long as I can within reason. I try and avoid owning things that are going to cause me problems within reason. Why would I want to own something that is documented likely to cause me even more problems? I would really like to spend the rest of my life reasonably trouble free. Is that a bad thing?.

they say that if you don't drink or smoke you will live longer. you don't actually live longer,it just seems longer!

 

[2into1]

Incorrect, as usual.
One day you'll understand the difference. Probably my posts are too subtle to understand. My apologies , I'm used to discussing such things with fellow medics.

I think I'd manage if you weren't dancing around on a pin head. Unfortunately here, you are dealing with many engineers.

To any readers thinking of buying a 180 of any age, please do your research. They can make great buys if you understand the potential problem with them. Certain measures taken at the right time will have massively reduced their risk, but you need to understand the problem first. If you want to believe @WelshGas, see if he'll underwrite a warranty for you. Doubt it.

 

[Haves1979]

Do your research is key. When I bought by 5.1 (ended up with a 140), I was put off a 180 by both my local dealer service dept and local VW/Audi Specialist. Both had seen a number of 180 failures and advised to take caution. Ended up pulling out of the sale (which I felt terrible about), but the guy did admit it used 'some' oil, so may have dodged a bullet.

While it might be the minority of vans, there was still a risk and with a pricate sale you are having to believe what the owner tells you.

 

[WelshGas]

I think I'd manage if you weren't dancing around on a pin head. Unfortunately here, you are dealing with many engineers.

To any readers thinking of buying a 180 of any age, please do your research. They can make great buys if you understand the potential problem with them. Certain measures taken at the right time will have massively reduced their risk, but you need to understand the problem first. If you want to believe @WelshGas, see if he'll underwrite a warranty for you. Doubt it.

You seem to like twisting the argument to suit your I’ll informed comments.
No where have I said there is no problem but your assertion that ALL 180s should be avoided is wrong and misconceived.
2010/2012 there is a problem with the CFCA engine, admitted so by VW. See the VW TPI.
Post 2012 breakdown of the EGR can cause engine damage, BUT not all EGRs are affected, so the buyer should be aware. As long as you maintain all 180s should be avoided then I will continue my counter argument.

 

[WelshGas]

If the aluminum content is within normal levels then the logic conclusion would be that the fins on the EGR cooler are not breaking down. VG Guru offered a possible explanation. I believed linked to driving style / use / heat generation / fuel quality. I wouldn't have fallen into any of the those categories but had a 72ppm reading

It may be the manufacturing process of the cooler that's to blame and any variables that come into play.

My point exactly. It is not just the EGR but possibly other factors.

 

[Ozzy Pete]

they say that if you don't drink or smoke you will live longer. you don't actually live longer,it just seems longer!

Or die in your 50s like both my parents......