Calis for sale

[babble]

As an aside to the main thread here. What exactly happens if you go over the 90 days? Say you got to the tunnel on your way home on day 103?

nothing. it might be a problem next time you arrive in the EU in theory, but for now they don't actually have any centralised system checking you in and out, so in practice nothing happens at all and no-one does anything. i know this because my friend came over to live with me in Belgium over a two year period, back and forth for longer than 90 days, and more than 180 days and no-one said anything or checked. if you were worried, you might go in and come back via a different route i guess.

 

[babble]

uk ports don't talk to each other, eurostar doesn't talk to the ports, EU ports don't talk to each other either, at least in relation to UK citizens it seems. Just to add though, if they do catch you for some reason you would get in trouble, possibly fined or banned from entering for a period of time.

 

[Maidment_Ocean]

nothing. it might be a problem next time you arrive in the EU in theory, but for now they don't actually have any centralised system checking you in and out, so in practice nothing happens at all and no-one does anything. i know this because my friend came over to live with me in Belgium over a two year period, back and forth for longer than 90 days, and more than 180 days and no-one said anything or checked. if you were worried, you might go in and come back via a different route i guess.

I think what you say is probably true however when you leave UK and come back you get your passport stamped, so there is a clear record of how long you have been away. Obviously someone need to be bothered to check.

 

[Wannabecamperman]

As an aside to the main thread here. What exactly happens if you go over the 90 days? Say you got to the tunnel on your way home on day 103?

Fines and bans potentially.

More here:

ETIAS

Official EU website on ETIAS, the new travel authorisation for visa-exempt travellers to enter 30 European countries. Applications should be filled in this website from mid-2025.

travel-europe.europa.eu

 

[flying banana]

This! You have illustrated precisely my situation.

The maximum of 90-days-in-any-180 Schengen rules that apply to us Brits visiting Europe since Brexit has caused me a huge issue and meant my retirement plans have changed from buying an £80k golf apartment in Murcia to looking at Calis (and Nuggets, etc) to be able to spend the UK summers at family / friends and on Britstops pub carparks and on good value long term sites, with only 90 days in Spain / France etc at a time.

Every cloud ....

 

[turnitdown]

It's mainly the prices. You can buy a new, unregistered Ocean with a few options for £68k, and that's including a five year warranty with the free services. Who is going to pay, to pick one example of a van advertised, £65k for a 3 year old, 3 owner Ocean? Or buy a 4 year old van with 25k miles for only £8k less than the new, unregistered van with warranty and service included? I hope nobody.

The other thing is: most people prefer to buy a van from a dealer, for a bunch of reasons. So the private sales should always be *less* than the dealer (not the same price, and certainly not more).

 

[Barry Chuckle]

It's mainly the prices. You can buy a new, unregistered Ocean with a few options for £68k, and that's including a five year warranty with the free services. Who is going to pay, to pick one example of a van advertised, £65k for a 3 year old, 3 owner Ocean? Or buy a 4 year old van with 25k miles for only £8k less than the new, unregistered van with warranty and service included? I hope nobody.

The other thing is: most people prefer to buy a van from a dealer, for a bunch of reasons. So the private sales should always be *less* than the dealer (not the same price, and certainly not more).

Whilst I agree with your thread, you are probably quoting the very cheapest unregistered Oceans with the most expensive used. You're right you'd have to be insane to pay £65k for a 3 year old Ocean, but there are some nearly new examples with low mileage for low 60's which in the current market is more realistic.

We all love our Cali's but some need a dose of the current economic reality we live in. There's still some nearly new 4m Oceans for sale for over £85k. I really feel sorry for the unsuspecting buyers who pay these crazy prices and lose £20k the minute they drive them away.

 

[turnitdown]

Whilst I agree with your thread, you are probably quoting the very cheapest unregistered Oceans with the most expensive used. You're right you'd have to be insane to pay £65k for a 3 year old Ocean, but there are some nearly new examples with low mileage for low 60's which in the current market is more realistic.

We all love our Cali's but some need a dose of the current economic reality we live in. There's still some nearly new 4m Oceans for sale for over £85k. I really feel sorry for the unsuspecting buyers who pay these crazy prices and lose £20k the minute they drive them away.

yes, I definitely am comparing the cheapest unregistered Oceans available with some of the vans that look most overpriced, but doesn't the general point hold? Here are the rest of the 6.1ks:

68k new, unregistered, 5 year warranty and service vs £64k, 2 year old van with 4000 miles and 3 year warranty

68k new (etc) vs £59.5k van that's 4 years old with over 25,000 miles, presumably no warranty

68k new (etc) vs £54k van that's 7 years old (204 and 4motion - though some (e.g. me) think that's worse not better), obvs no warranty

£68k new (etc) vs £63.5k van that's 2 years old, 10k miles, no mention of extended warranty

£68 new (etc) vs £66.5 van that's 3 years old, 18k miles, no mention of warranty. 204 4motion, but again not always a positive.

£68k new (etc) vs £62.5k van that's 4 years old, 28000 miles, no warranty

£68k new (etc.) vs £65k van that's 1 year old with 8500 miles, under 2 years warranty remaining

I think none of those look competitive on price, not even taking into account the fact most people much prefer to deal with a dealership when buying. To be clear, some of those vans are higher specced than the £68k new examples, but options depreciate very quickly, most buyers of used vans don't care about options aside from 'must haves' (e.g. Beach buyer definitely wants a heater, but Oceans are so well-specced there is probably no must-have). Also when one orders a brand new van, one pays extra for options because one is sort of creating one's perfect wee van. Used buyers tend not to be like that (again, except for things like the heater, 3-zone and LED lights on a Beach).

I suspect most or all of those used prices are flexible, certainly more than the new unreg van. But that's part of the problem. Nobody wants to drive for hours to view a private van and have an awkward conversation with a private seller about what they will really take for the van. Better to advertise the real (lower) price you'll take and make clear it's not up for discussion.

A few weeks back this topic came up and I refrained from saying anything about vans advertised here because it seemed a bit crass and unfriendly, but since this thread is specifically devoted to that topic, and the feedback could be useful to sellers, I'll be more frank now.

Another factor is that for some buyers financing is easier/cheaper with a new van, and when buying from a dealer. That's ultimately a price point though because it should drive down the price of used vans rather than new vans.

 

[Jimmmy]

As an aside to the main thread here. What exactly happens if you go over the 90 days? Say you got to the tunnel on your way home on day 103?

I have seen people that got banned for going just 1 day over.
This is getting much more strict since Brexit and come the new systems later this year I think it could well become automated.
So, be very very careful.

 

[babble]

I have seen people that got banned for going just 1 day over.
This is getting much more strict since Brexit and come the new systems later this year I think it could well become automated.
So, be very very careful.

i guess with the new automated system it will change, and i'm sure even now, if they spot you have overstayed you can get a ban for future travel indeed. Right now though, they don't consistently even check your passport when you leave, only on arrival. i cross the boarder back and forth five or six times a year and often leaving france to go to the uk, they just wave you through. Same leaving the UK - the UK border control is mostly not even present.

 

[tedgina]

I have seen people that got banned for going just 1 day over.
This is getting much more strict since Brexit and come the new systems later this year I think it could well become automated.
So, be very very careful.

The new ETIAS visa for Europe will track movements next year

 

[Jimmmy]

The new ETIAS visa for Europe will track movements next year

Correct.
At least then it will be consistently applied. Right now it can be hit and miss, which causes its own problems, which is why I say be careful: If they do not (currently) stamp your passport on leaving the EU, but they did stamp it inwards, next visit you can face some very difficult questions as to if/when you ever left.
So from my experience (and before the new system comes in), always try to get stamped when leaving the EU

 

[B J G]

uk ports don't talk to each other, eurostar doesn't talk to the ports, EU ports don't talk to each other either, at least in relation to UK citizens it seems. Just to add though, if they do catch you for some reason you would get in trouble, possibly fined or banned from entering for a period of time.

Biggest risk is that as you potentially have a record of overstaying your time limit any future Visa applications to any part of the world may be declined due to you not being relied upon to adhere to the Visa time/visit allocation.

 

[babble]

i don't think there is a centralised global 'visa record' as such. its not a criminal offense.

 

[B J G]

i don't think there is a centralised global 'visa record' as such. its not a criminal offense.

Not done a Visa application but would expect question on that topic.

 

[California_Ocean]

Back to the original thread topic, my Cali is also for sale, it's been priced as the cheapest 150 kW 4Motion Ocean in Germany for about 2 weeks now - and it's pretty loaded with extras ... 4 inquiries with one viewing so far, another on Friday. First to see it was very interested but worried about the solar system - basically isn't a DIYer so doesn't know how he would get it fixed if anything went wrong - should hear a yes/no tonight. Another viewing on Friday, one enquiry from a dealer and one person who deleted his account on the portal after a brief exchange.

I need to shift it, so I'm being very flexible on price, I'm moving back to boats after a brief foray into Camper vans as I always wanted a VW Bus. I'm not that bothered by selling it at a fire sale price as the same is currently true in the 2nd boat market, so it's wooden dollars to a certain extent.

The phenomenon seems to be that life is returning to normal and the pandemic toys are being disposed of - so there's a glut of campers, boats, caravans etc.

Hopefully be gone by the weekend but who knows.

 

[California_Ocean]

i don't think there is a centralised global 'visa record' as such. its not a criminal offense.

Nope, just in the EU ...

What is VIS?​

The Visa Information System (VIS) (consolidated version) allows Schengen States to exchange visa data. It consists of a central IT system and of a communication infrastructure that links this central system to national systems. VIS connects consulates in non-EU countries and all external border crossing points of Schengen States. It processes data and decisions relating to applications for short-stay visas to visit, or to transit through, the Schengen Area. The system can perform biometric matching, primarily of fingerprints, for identification and verification purposes.

Visa Information System

The Visa Information System (VIS) allows Schengen States in the EU to exchange visa data.

home-affairs.ec.europa.eu

 

[sidepod]

Back to the original thread topic, my Cali is also for sale, it's been priced as the cheapest 150 kW 4Motion Ocean in Germany for about 2 weeks now - and it's pretty loaded with extras ... 4 inquiries with one viewing so far, another on Friday. First to see it was very interested but worried about the solar system - basically isn't a DIYer so doesn't know how he would get it fixed if anything went wrong - should hear a yes/no tonight. Another viewing on Friday, one enquiry from a dealer and one person who deleted his account on the portal after a brief exchange.

I need to shift it, so I'm being very flexible on price, I'm moving back to boats after a brief foray into Camper vans as I always wanted a VW Bus. I'm not that bothered by selling it at a fire sale price as the same is currently true in the 2nd boat market, so it's wooden dollars to a certain extent.

The phenomenon seems to be that life is returning to normal and the pandemic toys are being disposed of - so there's a glut of campers, boats, caravans etc.

Hopefully be gone by the weekend but who knows.

Similar thing in the classic car market. Prices cooling big time after COVID sillyness.
I’ve just sold a motor bike. Dozens and dozens online priced at £7500. None of them selling. I advertised at £5995, sold it for £5500. Didn’t need to but wanted to convert it into something else. Move on.

#realitycheck

 

[Barry Chuckle]

A few weeks back this topic came up and I refrained from saying anything about vans advertised here because it seemed a bit crass and unfriendly, but since this thread is specifically devoted to that topic, and the feedback could be useful to sellers, I'll be more frank now.

A really well researched post and some very salient points, I certainly didn't think it were crass.

I think the post is very useful, when I sold my Cali a few months ago, a few people told me I should get near enough back what I paid for it if I held my nerve and didn't budge on price. I still decided to sell it at 9k below what I paid, even at that price I had very little interest. A VW main dealer contacted me and bought it from me, it still isn't sold despite regular discounts. If they discount it much more they'll be selling it for less than they paid me.

I echo your sentiments and I'd suggest anyone selling a Cali in the current market should sell it at a really competitive price as the prices may well fall much further as time goes on.

 

[turnitdown]

Thanks @Barry Chuckle. I should have added that prices at dealerships seem all over the place too. A guy at Clark Commercial's in Aberdeen calls me all the time trying to sell me 2022 and 2023 used vans that are priced over £70k. I've tried to politely point out that more than one UK dealer has an advertised, unregistered 24 Ocean at £68k, so why would I possibly pay more than that for a used one? I think I have worded this too diplomatically though because he keeps calling.

Of course, those cheap vans could sell and then anyone who wants an Ocean might be stuck paying a higher price. But they don't seem to be being snapped up. Moreover I have been tracking the number of 2023 and newer Oceans on auto trader for the last month and the number is slowly increasing (just slightly), which I wouldn't expect. I'm not sure of the seasonal pattern though.

 

[Wannabecamperman]

A guy at Clark Commercial's in Aberdeen calls me all the time trying to sell me 2022 and 2023 used vans that are priced over £70k. I've tried to politely point out that more than one UK dealer has an advertised, unregistered 24 Ocean at £68k, so why would I possibly pay more than that for a used one? I think I have worded this too diplomatically though because he keeps calling.

Liverpool VW seems to have an almost endless supply of MY2024 Oceans for sale, with the 5 year warranty, servicing and breakdown thrown in!

Of course this won't go on forever, but it does make some of the 2020 / 2021 / 2022 second hand Oceans for sale who are asking north of £60k really poor value in comparison. This is simple financial logic.

 

[Chinny]

Prices are just way too high some sellers are asking mid £30k upto £40k for a t5.1 even £45k I’ve seen t6s for £37k I’ve been studying the prices for years and availability and there’s never been this many up for sale it’s a niche market and it’s flooded ,plus it’s an expensive machine to start with not many can claim vat back and the roof issues have put people off for sure tax is sky high on some insurance has risen as well apologies for the negativity but it’s true buyers market

 

[turnitdown]

I think a big issue here are interest rates (which yes, aren't that high compared to long ago, but are certainly high compared to recently). £70k of financing is over £7000/year just in interest at VW used van rates, and although you can do better than that if you have a significant asset like a home to leverage, that's a pretty substantial chunk of interest for a depreciating asset.

That all said, I still think I'm going to buy one in the next couple of months, although in part this is driven by my need to spend 40-50 nights a year away from home. Even then the math doesn't really work out compared to hotels, although of course I want the van for other reasons.

 

[Azteccamper]

I was genuinely looking to get new at the start of the year to replace my 2012 T5.1 SE. I was looking at basically £35k-£50k plus my van to get new.
Then I thought am I mad? The camping experience is basically the same but the driving experience would be improved with Dsg box, led headlights, 150bhp engine, etc.
£40k is a lot of holiday money - suffice to say I’m writing this on a cracking site in the mountains above Murcia with my 2012 next to me.

 

[Chinny]

Best way get one and keep it like marriage,through thick and thin fix what needs fixing and enjoy