Cam Belt Query

[clarinetbcn]

This is incredible. In the first response, they claimed it was a factory decision:

"The 4 years in the UK market is a recommendation set by the factory in Germany. It is not a requirement for the cam belt to be changed at 4 years.
The factory have set this as a recommendation just like they set the recommendation for every market that they make vehicles for."

But in the follow up response they admit it is a VWCV UK importer decision, based on secret data:

"The decision to include a time as well as mileage is one taken by each importer. The specific reasons that lead to the decision, which has been implemented throughout 2 generations of Transporter are not available to share however they include average driving conditions, traffic levels, environmental factors, and indeed whole life vehicle maintenance costs. As it is only a recommendation, it is at the customer’s discretion if they choose to service the belt at our recommended intervals and does not impact either the vehicle warranty, which is for 3 years, or the warranty on the belt, which is 2 years."

Then they happily declare that 2 generations of Transporter owners have been subjected to this deception. In all my reading of Forum posts about this topic, no one has ever said that they were told it was "recommended" by VWCV, the importer, but not by Volkswagen Nutzfahrzeuge, the manufacturer, and they certainly were not told that this only applies to UK, but not Germany, Belgium, France, Spain, etc. They were told it was required.

I think there should be a direct communication with Volkswagen Nutsfahrzeuge (VW Commercial Vehicles). Someone should take responsibility for two generations of UK Transporter and transporter based vehicles paying for an unnecessary procedure.

 

[clarinetbcn]

Perhaps those Forum members who are active on the T5/6 Forum would like to share these developments there. I'm sure there'll be a lot of interest.

 

[clarinetbcn]

"As it is only a recommendation, it is at the customer’s discretion if they choose to service the belt at our recommended intervals and does not impact either the vehicle warranty, which is for 3 years, or the warranty on the belt, which is 2 years."

This is senseless. The warranty on a new vehicle is for three years, but the warranty on the belt is only for two, but they "recommend" changing it at four, but only in the UK. FFS.

This would only make sense if UK vans were fitted with belts manufactured to a lower standard than Europe. I wonder how they would defend that.

 

[Velma's Dad]

and indeed whole life vehicle maintenance costs.

Ha ha they've left out some words, between "indeed" and "whole". The omitted words are "...how to maximise VWCS profits from...".

What a bunch of utter crooks. Rip-off Britain at its finest. If anyone from VWCS is reading this... we're onto you now.

 

[clarinetbcn]

"As it is only a recommendation, it is at the customer’s discretion if they choose to service the belt at our recommended intervals..."

VW owners in Europe seem to have a good history with trusting that the inspections of the cam belt at every service are actually taking place, i.e., there has been no rash of belt failures in Europe with the 210,000km limit, because a problem can be detected if there's early wear. Can UK owners be confident that their belts are being inspected, and that accurate information is given if they "choose" to not follow the UK specific "recommendation"?

 

[Aidy P]

Thanks everyone for your input. My reply ...

Dear Mr Myers

I am confused by the contradictions in your emails…

In your first email you advised that the cam belt life is set by the VW factory …"The factory have set this as a recommendation just like they set the recommendation for every market that they make vehicles for."

Yet in your follow up email you admit it is a VWUK importer decision … “The decision to include a time as well as mileage is one taken by each importer. The specific reasons that lead to the decision, which has been implemented throughout 2 generations of Transporter are not available to share however they include average driving conditions, traffic levels, environmental factors, and indeed whole life vehicle maintenance costs. As it is only a recommendation, it is at the customer’s discretion if they choose to service the belt at our recommended intervals and does not impact either the vehicle warranty, which is for 3 years, or the warranty on the belt, which is 2 years."

I would like to seek clarity as to why UK owners of T5 & T6 Transporters (including my California) are being prompted to pay for an unnecessary procedure. From reading various VW Transporter forums, it seems that VW owners in Europe have a good history with trusting that the inspections of the cam belt at every service are actually taking place, i.e. there has been no rash of belt failures in Europe with the 210,000km limit, because a problem can be detected if there is early wear. Can you please advise if UK owners can be confident that their cam belts are being inspected by the VW centres, and that accurate information is given if they "choose" to not follow the UK specific recommendation? Is it a case that in the UK VW dealerships are not inspecting the cam-belt. If not why not?

I also challenge that the warranty on a new vehicle is for three years, but the warranty on the belt is only for two years, but we as owners are "recommended" to change it at four years… but only in the UK and not in Germany, Belgium, France, Spain, etc. This would only make sense if UK vans were fitted with belts manufactured to a lower standard than Europe. Is the UK cam belt a different specification to elsewhere in Europe? If I had a cam belt changed in France, would this then mean that I would only need to follow the 210,000 km guidelines?

I look forward to your reply and confirmation that you will be raising these queries via 'Technical Reporting via the Van Centre Network’, because as a customer, I do not have access to this reporting channel. We are directed via VW Centres to raise any general queries with your department at VWCC. Thank you.

Sincerely,

 

[clarinetbcn]

Interesting reading from a member of the T6 forum:

"Ok now had email back from VW who say 4 years for cambelt, but that all VW's made after 2009 are 5 years for cambelt, so have spoken to VW and after some time was told that the reason for 4 years is not really the cambelt that needs changing but the Water pump which may leak."

I haven't heard of a rash of water pump failures in Europe either.

 

[Aidy P]

Clear as mud. I don’t mind paying for something if it’s needed. After all my van wasn’t cheap and I want to look after it. I just feel that we’re being let down (and possibly ripped off) as customers in the U.K.

 

[Lightning]

Interesting reading from a member of the T6 forum:

"Ok now had email back from VW who say 4 years for cambelt, but that all VW's made after 2009 are 5 years for cambelt, so have spoken to VW and after some time was told that the reason for 4 years is not really the cambelt that needs changing but the Water pump which may leak."

I haven't heard of a rash of water pump failures in Europe either.

My TSi has a water pump and no cam belt. VW do not specify a 4 yearly water pump change on my van. Maybe the concern is potential contamination of the cam belt by a water or oil leak.

 

[Lightning]

Clear as mud. I don’t mind paying for something if it’s needed. After all my van wasn’t cheap and I want to look after it. I just feel that we’re being let down (and possibly ripped off) as customers in the U.K.

I don’t think you are. I have just been quoted ‘at least‘ £680 for a full service in Sweden on a TSi with no cam belt to be inspected, and I was told by them it makes no difference to the price if it was a diesel.
The same service in the UK costs £360.

 

[Aidy P]

I don’t think you are. I have just been quoted ‘at least‘ £680 for a full service in Sweden on a TSi with no cam belt to be inspected, and I was told by them it makes no difference to the price if it was a diesel.
The same service in the UK costs £360.

Crikey. That’s steep.

 

[Lightning]

Crikey. That’s steep.

I know. He said the engine oil alone costs £175. I’m considering driving back to the U.K. as it’s so cheap there.

 

[Fergie Collier]

Mine is a 2016 Ocean 204 bhp and only done 26000. I have now discussed this 3 independent mechanics and they all say it's ridiculous and a money making scheme for dealers. An original belt with such low mileage will last many more years and they say at least 60K miles - rather than stripping the engine down unnecessary. I really do not know what to do ? I fear it goes and I regret it but on the other hand it' does seem silly. Any thoughts and opinions very welcome and sorry if this is a well debated subject.

 

[clarinetbcn]

The key part of the equation for the 210,000 km cam belt change in Europe is that the belt gets inspected at every service to spot premature wear. If you do decide to follow the German manufacturer's service schedule, do you have confidence that your UK agency will do the inspection, and give you accurate information?

 

[T6 CFO]

The disparity between the UK and other countries is far from satisfactory but cherry picking the best from around the world and comparing with the UK is probably not good either. Other places I believe pay more for their Cali’s and others may well pay less. Items cost more in some places and less in others.
Warranties I believe differ between countries?

At the end of the day and thanks to this thread we know have the information to approach our dealers and have an informed discussion with them.
That’s what I will do, see what they say and make my decision from there.
I have a 2017 Cali with low mileage and a 5 year warranty.


Mike

 

[clarinetbcn]

Cherry picking involves, well...picking. There is no picking involved when the UK service schedule is the only prune among a bunch of cherries.

 

[Bellcrew]

Thanks everyone for your input. My reply ...

Dear Mr Myers

I am confused by the contradictions in your emails…

In your first email you advised that the cam belt life is set by the VW factory …"The factory have set this as a recommendation just like they set the recommendation for every market that they make vehicles for."

Yet in your follow up email you admit it is a VWUK importer decision … “The decision to include a time as well as mileage is one taken by each importer. The specific reasons that lead to the decision, which has been implemented throughout 2 generations of Transporter are not available to share however they include average driving conditions, traffic levels, environmental factors, and indeed whole life vehicle maintenance costs. As it is only a recommendation, it is at the customer’s discretion if they choose to service the belt at our recommended intervals and does not impact either the vehicle warranty, which is for 3 years, or the warranty on the belt, which is 2 years."

I would like to seek clarity as to why UK owners of T5 & T6 Transporters (including my California) are being prompted to pay for an unnecessary procedure. From reading various VW Transporter forums, it seems that VW owners in Europe have a good history with trusting that the inspections of the cam belt at every service are actually taking place, i.e. there has been no rash of belt failures in Europe with the 210,000km limit, because a problem can be detected if there is early wear. Can you please advise if UK owners can be confident that their cam belts are being inspected by the VW centres, and that accurate information is given if they "choose" to not follow the UK specific recommendation? Is it a case that in the UK VW dealerships are not inspecting the cam-belt. If not why not?

I also challenge that the warranty on a new vehicle is for three years, but the warranty on the belt is only for two years, but we as owners are "recommended" to change it at four years… but only in the UK and not in Germany, Belgium, France, Spain, etc. This would only make sense if UK vans were fitted with belts manufactured to a lower standard than Europe. Is the UK cam belt a different specification to elsewhere in Europe? If I had a cam belt changed in France, would this then mean that I would only need to follow the 210,000 km guidelines?

I look forward to your reply and confirmation that you will be raising these queries via 'Technical Reporting via the Van Centre Network’, because as a customer, I do not have access to this reporting channel. We are directed via VW Centres to raise any general queries with your department at VWCC. Thank you.

Sincerely,

The VWUK position is obviously indefensible but whilst people remain nervous about catastrophic failure they can recommend replacement at four years/40000 miles with confidence that yummy profits will follow.

 

[Erbster]

Unless the customer chooses to use a competent independent garage which does not have to charge the hourly rates to sustain a shiny showroom and someone to bring you a coffee...

CaliVentures

Adventures in a VW California camper van

caliventures364847572.wordpress.com

 

[clarinetbcn]

Thanks everyone for your input. My reply ...

Dear Mr Myers

If I had a cam belt changed in France, would this then mean that I would only need to follow the 210,000 km guidelines?

Brilliant!

 

[clarinetbcn]

Thanks everyone for your input. My reply ...

Dear Mr Myers

I am confused by the contradictions in your emails…

In your first email you advised that the cam belt life is set by the VW factory …"The factory have set this as a recommendation just like they set the recommendation for every market that they make vehicles for."

Yet in your follow up email you admit it is a VWUK importer decision … “The decision to include a time as well as mileage is one taken by each importer. The specific reasons that lead to the decision, which has been implemented throughout 2 generations of Transporter are not available to share however they include average driving conditions, traffic levels, environmental factors, and indeed whole life vehicle maintenance costs. As it is only a recommendation, it is at the customer’s discretion if they choose to service the belt at our recommended intervals and does not impact either the vehicle warranty, which is for 3 years, or the warranty on the belt, which is 2 years."

I would like to seek clarity as to why UK owners of T5 & T6 Transporters (including my California) are being prompted to pay for an unnecessary procedure. From reading various VW Transporter forums, it seems that VW owners in Europe have a good history with trusting that the inspections of the cam belt at every service are actually taking place, i.e. there has been no rash of belt failures in Europe with the 210,000km limit, because a problem can be detected if there is early wear. Can you please advise if UK owners can be confident that their cam belts are being inspected by the VW centres, and that accurate information is given if they "choose" to not follow the UK specific recommendation? Is it a case that in the UK VW dealerships are not inspecting the cam-belt. If not why not?

I also challenge that the warranty on a new vehicle is for three years, but the warranty on the belt is only for two years, but we as owners are "recommended" to change it at four years… but only in the UK and not in Germany, Belgium, France, Spain, etc. This would only make sense if UK vans were fitted with belts manufactured to a lower standard than Europe. Is the UK cam belt a different specification to elsewhere in Europe? If I had a cam belt changed in France, would this then mean that I would only need to follow the 210,000 km guidelines?

I look forward to your reply and confirmation that you will be raising these queries via 'Technical Reporting via the Van Centre Network’, because as a customer, I do not have access to this reporting channel. We are directed via VW Centres to raise any general queries with your department at VWCC. Thank you.

Sincerely,

So, as far as a response from VWCV UK, crickets, apparently. Not a surprise. This will only change if there is a barrage of complaints from UK owners. You are the only market that is being subjected to this unfair treatment by a private company which is supposed to represent VW Nutzfahrzeuge (VW commercial vehicles) in the UK, but has established a bizarre service schedule for the UK in contradiction to the manufacturer’s specifications, using criteria that they calmly tell us is “not available to be shared,”

 

[WelshGas]

A little comparison.
The California is based on a Commercial vehicle.
Up until this year I've been covering 20,000 miles/year, so an annual service.
The annual service costs about £320, for oil change, all filters and inspection. So over 4 years £1280.
DSG and Haldex oil changes about £200 every 2 years. So total £1680/4yrs.
According to @Lightening, in Sweden it would have cost £2720/4 yrs excluding DSG and Haldex.
In the UK, Cambelt and water pump £550.
So following UK service requirements I paid £2230 over 4 yrs.
In Sweden £2720 without a Cambelt or 2 x DSG/Haldex oil changes.

So what extras does the Swedish service involve? Or are all European owners being ripped off annually?

Obviously, I dependants and DIY will be cheaper.

 

[Lightning]

A little comparison.
The California is based on a Commercial vehicle.
Up until this year I've been covering 20,000 miles/year, so an annual service.
The annual service costs about £320, for oil change, all filters and inspection. So over 4 years £1280.
DSG and Haldex oil changes about £200 every 2 years. So total £1680/4yrs.
According to @Lightening, in Sweden it would have cost £2720/4 yrs excluding DSG and Haldex.
In the UK, Cambelt and water pump £550.
So following UK service requirements I paid £2230 over 4 yrs.
In Sweden £2720 without a Cambelt or 2 x DSG/Haldex oil changes.

So what extras does the Swedish service involve? Or are all European owners being ripped off annually?

Obviously, I dependants and DIY will be cheaper.

It got much worse in Sweden. The finalised quote I got over the phone from them over the phone was £860 for an inspection (full service not yet due) including engine oil and filter and DSG oil change. The UK cost for the same work is about half this.
As I need some other work done too I’m driving back.

 

[WelshGas]

Just a hypothesis. If a full cambelt examination is labour intensive, thus increasing the cost substantially, then maybe the UK methodology of a cheaper service, with no inspection of the cambelt, and just replacing the cambelt and water pump at 80,000 miles or 4 years isn't such a rip off as it appears?

 

[Lightning]

Just a hypothesis. If a full cambelt examination is labour intensive, thus increasing the cost substantially, then maybe the UK methodology of a cheaper service, with no inspection of the cambelt, and just replacing the cambelt and water pump at 80,000 miles or 4 years isn't such a rip off as it appears?

See post 41. It is labour intensive, they have to remove the cover, inspect the belt over its full length on both sides by rotating the engine, and refit the cover. It probably takes some time.

 

[Lightning]

From a post on the T6 forum:

Cambelt (toothed belt): service interval TBC.

Camshaft drive toothed belt: Checking condition
Applicable to
t 2.0 l diesel engines
Carry out the following jobs:
Remove toothed belt guard
– Turn crankshaft at least one full turn and check toothed belt condition on following points:
t Cracks, cross sectional breaks
t Layer separation (toothed belt body, tensile cords)
t Toothed belt body breakup
t Fraying of cord strands
t Surface cracks (synthetic coating)
t Traces of oil and grease

If faults are found always renew toothed belt. This will avoid possible breakdowns or operating problems. The replacement of a toothed belt is a repair measure.