Cam Belt Query

[Legin]

Just a hypothesis. If a full cambelt examination is labour intensive, thus increasing the cost substantially, then maybe the UK methodology of a cheaper service, with no inspection of the cambelt, and just replacing the cambelt and water pump at 80,000 miles or 4 years isn't such a rip off as it appears?

Im afraid this is denial. Its a UK importer cash cow plain and simple. They just arent going bang in the EU yet the Haldex doesnt get serviced properly and they stop regularly (Haldex 5) . They apply it to all group brands and vehicles in UK. The inspection is really very easy, top cover off , spin the crank by hand and look for damage.
The cheaper service is something they are locked to due to the need to be competitive in the business lease side.

 

[Lightning]

Im afraid this is denial. Its a UK importer cash cow plain and simple. They just arent going bang in the EU yet the Haldex doesnt get serviced properly and they stop regularly (Haldex 5) . They apply it to all group brands and vehicles in UK. The inspection is really very easy, top cover off , spin the crank by hand and look for damage.
The cheaper service is something they are locked to due to the need to be competitive in the business lease side.

They have to do it at every service. It must take around half an hour. Cumulatively the cost difference probably isn’t significant, and in the U.K. you are assured the belt is ok because it’s a new belt, so you are not reliant on the inspection missing something.
Storm in a teacup.

 

[Legin]

They have to do it at every service. It must take around half an hour. Cumulatively the cost difference probably isn’t significant, and in the U.K. you are assured the belt is ok because it’s a new belt, so you are not reliant on the inspection missing something.
Storm in a teacup.

Wrong logic. It doesnt need doing until 4 yrs according to VWUK change policy so your trading two inspections at 4 and 6 yrs for one replacement, inspection is labour only so dirt cheap plus no possibility of infant mortality risk associated with replacement. I do my own belts and inspections and must be good because it take me 15 mins to inspect.

 

[Loz]

I took the cover off mine and with the engine running took a slo-mo video on the iPhone and just watched it back. Took all of 10 minutes.
I have submitted a question to Gates (the oem manufacturer) and asked for their take on the matter.

 

[Lightning]

Wrong logic. It doesnt need doing until 4 yrs according to VWUK change policy so your trading two inspections at 4 and 6 yrs for one replacement, inspection is labour only so dirt cheap plus no possibility of infant mortality risk associated with replacement. I do my own belts and inspections and must be good because it take me 15 mins to inspect.

This depends upon the belt inspection interval specified outside the U.K. Is the inspection specified once every 4 years, the same as the replacement interval in the U.K. or is it to be inspected at every service?

 

[Lightning]

I took the cover off mine and with the engine running took a slo-mo video on the iPhone and just watched it back. Took all of 10 minutes.
I have submitted a question to Gates (the oem manufacturer) and asked for their take on the matter.

You sound like one of my project managers.

 

[Legin]

This depends upon the belt inspection interval specified outside the U.K. Is the inspection specified once every 4 years, the same as the replacement interval in the U.K. or is it to be inspected at every service?

VWUK has decided that no inspection is required before 4 yrs and 80000 miles. So why would an inspection before this now be required irrespective. I havent seen it for a T5/T6 but normally these inspection regimes dont kick in with the early services. The issue is what happens at yr4 and beyond.

 

[Legin]

I would have to sit and work it out but the risk profile of doing a cambelt replacement at the bottom of the bathtub therefore moving it to infant mortality is almost certainly higher than doing nothing. This would never be replaced in industry, I have trained car companies in FMEA, (the plant not the cars) using systems developed for aircraft maintenance. The inspections are in place to check nothing has gone a miss like dirt ingress, oil leaks or belt misalignment , pump seal and so on and of definite value.

 

[WelshGas]

VWUK has decided that no inspection is required before 4 yrs and 80000 miles. So why would an inspection before this now be required irrespective. I havent seen it for a T5/T6 but normally these inspection regimes dont kick in with the early services. The issue is what happens at yr4 and beyond.

You're mixing and matching now. On the Continent maybe they inspect every year as there appears to be no time limit only milage, or if their is an extended time limit then they still inspect every year.
It all depends if the cost of an annual inspection over a period of 4/5 years equates to No Inspection and a Cambelt replacement every 4 years.
The fact that some owners can do such inspections at minimal cost has no bearing on the matter at all. Based on the Swedish service costs it would seem that UK owners have the better deal.

 

[Lightning]

VWUK has decided that no inspection is required before 4 yrs and 80000 miles. So why would an inspection before this now be required irrespective. I havent seen it for a T5/T6 but normally these inspection regimes dont kick in with the early services. The issue is what happens at yr4 and beyond.

What is the inspection interval specified outside the U.K. Is it every service or is it every 4 years? My understanding from these forums is that it’s inspected at every service outside the U.K. and replaced once every 4 years in the U.K.

If this is the case its just a different approach, maybe not better or worse. Maybe it’s a business decision to keep servicing the car in the U.K. cheaper than outside.

If there is an oil leak onto the belt it will reduce its life, without inspecting it you won’t know?

 

[Legin]

You're mixing and matching now. On the Continent maybe they inspect every year as there appears to be no time limit only milage, or if their is an extended time limit then they still inspect every year.
It all depends if the cost of an annual inspection over a period of 4/5 years equates to No Inspection and a Cambelt replacement every 4 years.
The fact that some owners can do such inspections at minimal cost has no bearing on the matter at all. Based on the Swedish service costs it would seem that UK owners have the better deal.

Is it a requirement to inspect every year on the continent ? I suspect its every service after an initial holiday period. Anyone know the answer.
Mix and match is ok anyway. The right answer would be based on FMEA.

 

[Legin]

What is the inspection interval specified outside the U.K. Is it every service or is it every 4 years? My understanding from these forums is that it’s inspected at every service outside the U.K. and replaced once every 4 years in the U.K.

If this is the case its just a different approach, maybe not better or worse. Maybe it’s a business decision to keep servicing the car in the U.K. cheaper than outside.

If there is an oil leak onto the belt it will reduce its life, without inspecting it you won’t know?

If there is an oil leak onto the belt it will reduce its life, without inspecting it you won’t know?

So an inspection regime is of more value as the replace logic means it could be 4 years before its noticed. Aromatics in the oil would destroy a belt in fairly short order.

 

[altvic]

Appears that the UK VW franchises, on the form, are silent on this issue. They could provide relevant information. @Tomdbreeze ?

If there is an oil leak onto the belt it will reduce its life, without inspecting it you won’t know?

So an inspection regime is of more value as the replace logic means it could be 4 years before its noticed. Aromatics in the oil would destroy a belt in fairly short order.

 

[Lightning]

If there is an oil leak onto the belt it will reduce its life, without inspecting it you won’t know?

So an inspection regime is of more value as the replace logic means it could be 4 years before its noticed. Aromatics in the oil would destroy a belt in fairly short order.

Based upon the FMEA the different methodologies may present an equal risk of belt failure. Hence a business decision may have been taken to choose an alternative in the U.K. as both methods were considered acceptable technically. A four yearly replacement with no inspections may well be preferable to annual inspections with no replacement. I would always choose the replacement, as I don’t want to risk a life disrupting bill to replace the whole engine.

Even if there is an initial holiday period on the inspections (which I doubt) the difference is cost over the lifespan of the van would probably be minimal at around say 22 inspections over a 25 year lifespan as opposed to 25 inspections.

The fixed price servicing in the U.K. is good value.

Storm in a teacup.

 

[El Greco]

it would be interesting to know what the belt replacement period is, in general, in countries where regular inspections are carried out. This will surely be an indication of actual belt life. VW would most likely have that information. An informed technical decision can then be made. Maybe that is where the 4 years have been derived from but I wouldn't bet on it!

 

[Legin]

Based upon the FMEA the different methodologies may present an equal risk of belt failure. Hence a business decision may have been taken to choose an alternative in the U.K. as both methods were considered acceptable technically. A four yearly replacement with no inspections may well be preferable to annual inspections with no replacement. I would always choose the replacement, as I don’t want to risk a life disrupting bill to replace the whole engine.

Even if there is an initial holiday period on the inspections (which I doubt) the difference is cost over the lifespan of the van would probably be minimal at around say 22 inspections over a 25 year lifespan as opposed to 25 inspections.

The fixed price servicing in the U.K. is good value.

Storm in a teacup.

The fixed price servicing doesnt include the optional belt change or brake fluid or much else..... Good value for an oil and filter maybe. Perfect VAG customer.

 

[Lightning]

The fixed price servicing doesnt include the optional belt change or brake fluid or much else..... Good value for an oil and filter maybe. Perfect VAG customer.

Perhaps you would be better off in a Ford.

 

[Legin]

Why whats good about a Ford.

 

[Lightning]

Why whats good about a Ford.

I understand they are cheaper to buy and run than VW.
Have you seen the cost of a VW service in Sweden? We have nothing to complain about in the U.K. except for leaking windows etc.

 

[Legin]

I understand they are cheaper to buy and run than VW.
Have you seen the cost of a VW service in Sweden? We have nothing to complain about in the U.K. except for leaking windows etc.

I will make sure I dont get it serviced in Sweden.

 

[Lightning]

I will make sure I dont get it serviced in Sweden.

I would probably avoid Norway too.

 

[Big Ron]

Had mine changed today (6 years, 55k miles).
Looks in really good condition, no cracks, no visible wearing at all.

 

[Eber123]

Good evening,

I asked my VW Dealer what the recommendations are to change the timing belt. I got feedback today saying that the timing belt has to be changed every 5x years or 200.000 km whichever comes first (haha).

This gives me another 2x years before the work has to be done.

Regards,
Eberhard

 

[clarinetbcn]

This depends upon the belt inspection interval specified outside the U.K. Is the inspection specified once every 4 years, the same as the replacement interval in the U.K. or is it to be inspected at every service?

Every service.

 

[clarinetbcn]

Based upon the FMEA the different methodologies may present an equal risk of belt failure. Hence a business decision may have been taken to choose an alternative in the U.K. as both methods were considered acceptable technically. A four yearly replacement with no inspections may well be preferable to annual inspections with no replacement. I would always choose the replacement, as I don’t want to risk a life disrupting bill to replace the whole engine.

Even if there is an initial holiday period on the inspections (which I doubt) the difference is cost over the lifespan of the van would probably be minimal at around say 22 inspections over a 25 year lifespan as opposed to 25 inspections.

The fixed price servicing in the U.K. is good value.

Storm in a teacup.

"may present"
"a business decision may have been taken"
"may well be preferable "
"would probably be minimal "

This is what denial looks like. Would you replace perfectly good brake pads to avoid scoring the discs, especially if only one importer (UK) recommended it, even though the European market follows the manufacturer's recommendation and the European durability results support that recommendation?