Closing roof - please start engine

[Kaydee]

Roof operation runs on starter battery in engine compartment.

Dont think so bud,if your engine battery is so low that it wont close the roof ,you aren' t going anywhere as there definately wont be enough juice to turn your engine over.
Put another way if there isnt enough power in your engine battery to work the roof then how can it have enough power to both start the engine and then close the roof .
The roof works off the leisure battery,independant of the engine.
The generator can bypass the leisure battery and work the roof in the same way the generator charges all the batteries.

 

[jts46]

Can anybody supply a wiring diagram for the roof operation, NOT schematic?

John

 

[WelshGas]

Dont think so bud,if your engine battery is so low that it wont close the roof ,you aren' t going anywhere as there definately wont be enough juice to turn your engine over.
Put another way if there isnt enough power in your engine battery to work the roof then how can it have enough power to both start the engine and then close the roof .
The roof works off the leisure battery,independant of the engine.
The generator can bypass the leisure battery and work the roof in the same way the generator charges all the batteries.

So why do you have to switch the ignition ON, before lowering the roof?

 

[Kaydee]

No idea whatsoever ,though I would suspect it is a fail safe to stop little fingers from operating the roof,as one of the other contributors suggested ,kids love switches,my guess too and it does make a certain sense.
The other thing is that in the event of a discharged leisure batterythere would have to be some way to lower the roof,ie off the generator which is part of the engine system ,so it needs to run through the ignition to allow this,just a guess

 

[2CV67]

I asked on the French forum if anybody had 100% proof which battery is used for the roof.
They dug up a 2006 thread saying definitely it was the leisure batteries & with a link to a circuit diagram - which is no longer there though.

The other suggestion they offered (for anybody unconvinced) was to operate the roof without the engine running & see if that affected the indication on the console.
I did that and it does affect the console.
Down from 12.7v & 100% to 12.4v & 80% immediately after one roof operation (recovering to 12.5v & 90% after a few minutes).

So I am quite sure my roof is operated by the leisure batteries.

But I can't find anything written by VW to confirm that.

I shall certainly continue to have my engine running for all roof operations, to optimise the short-term & long-term life of the leisure batteries.

 

[Pineweasel]

The "VW California Technical Manual" available in Downloads has a circuit diagram that confirms it runs off the leisure batteries.

 

[Freeley]

Not that I'm one to blow my own trumpet but looks like I was right then! For once.

Sent from my Galaxy S6

 

[barry]

The "VW California Technical Manual" available in Downloads has a circuit diagram that confirms it runs off the leisure batteries.

Can you see what the role of the "ignition on" instruction is from this diagram ... ?

 

[Kaydee]

Barry,why is it omportant to know why the ignition needs to be on?
Not being funny but isnt it enough just to know that it DOES need to be on ?

 

[Pineweasel]

I'm sure the requirement for the ignition to be on is simply a software interlock in the camper control unit, put in place for safety reasons.

 

[barry]

Barry,why is it omportant to know why the ignition needs to be on?
Not being funny but isnt it enough just to know that it DOES need to be on ?

Kaydee,
I like to know how things work.
In my past life it's been brains.
Now it's Calis.
Marginally more complicated ...

If our VW leaders have decided to incorporate the "ignition on" instructions in the tech manual and also wired it into the control panel, one presumes there's a reason for this effort.
I just wonder what it is.
That's all.
I thought I'd be able to work it out from the electric schemas but I haven't.

[Of course, with VW's obfuscation over the Cali roof debacle and their substantial funding of a major research centre that in contrast to the many other equivalent research centres throughout the world manages to publish papers in senior science journals indicating that diesel fumes do not harm health, I'm not entirely confident their reason will be transparent.]

I'm sure you're not being funny btw.

 

[Californiaman]

The roof mechanism is quite delicate. I reckon they only want brain surgeons with qualifications (eg: the keys!) to be able to raise and lower it! It could be a simple as that...

 

[barry]

The roof mechanism is quite delicate. I reckon they only want brain surgeons with qualifications (eg: the keys!) to be able to raise and lower it! It could be a simple as that...

Hands too shaky to be a surgeon, thank heavens.

 

[Pineweasel]

You don't want a curious child, for example, to be able to operate the roof. It could have far worse consequences than any of the the other functions of the control panel. Imagine someone was upstairs when it was closed? Or conversely, raising the roof when headroom is restricted?

 

[WelshGas]

You don't want a curious child, for example, to be able to operate the roof. It could have far worse consequences than any of the the other functions of the control panel. Imagine someone was upstairs when it was closed? Or conversely, raising the roof when headroom is restricted?

So 5 button presses and 1 or 2 scrolls of the Control Panel knob is not sufficient safeguard to prevent accidental roof operations?

 

[Pineweasel]

I'm not talking about accidental roof operations

 

[WelshGas]

Oh, I didn't realise that some children would ignore their parents when told not to do something that was dangerous. I suppose that's where the saying " Curiosity killed the Cat " came from or something similar.
Different generations I suppose.

 

[GrannyJen]

What a fascinating discussion.

I'm just pleased when the roof shuts and I can go home without calling VW assist

 

[Skylark2.0]

Oh, I didn't realise that some children would ignore their parents when told not to do something that was dangerous. I suppose that's where the saying " Curiosity killed the Cat " came from or something similar.
Different generations I suppose.

Curiosity killed the cat.
Satisfaction brought it back...

 

[2CV67]

A functional diagram has been posted on the French forum:
http://www.t5calif.info/forum/viewtopic.php?p=65828#p65828

Somebody also pointed me to this link, but it doesn't work for me:
http://www.1946vw.co.uk/vwbooks/vw_info/T5_pdfs/T5 Camper wiring 2009 onwards.pdf

 

[snowy55]

We have been away for the weekend in the Cali and when I've been raising and lowering the roof I tried my plug in voltmeter in various sockets this what i found.

Dash top socket under the little flap on the left hand side of tray, only fitted for the last couple of years, resting voltage 12.4 goes down to 12.0-11.8 when operating the roof.

Ash tray/cup holder in centre of dash socket, resting 12.8 volts no change when operating the roof.

Socket on front of the kitchen unit behind passenger seat on RHD vehicle, 12.4 goes down to 12.0-11.8 on operating the roof.

Also saw similar readings when starting up the heater which according to the Central Control Unit takes over 10 amps on initial startup!

So it looks to me that the dash top and kitchen unit and i presume the inner sliding door and boot sockets all run off the leisure batteries which power the roof mechanism and heater and the ash tray/cup holder socket runs off the engine starting battery under the bonnet.
Still doesn't answer the question of why the ignition needs to be on
Hope this helps

 

[CYCLOPATH]

Kaydee,
I like to know how things work.
In my past life it's been brains.
Now it's Calis.
Marginally more complicated ...

If our VW leaders have decided to incorporate the "ignition on" instructions in the tech manual and also wired it into the control panel, one presumes there's a reason for this effort.
I just wonder what it is.
That's all.
I thought I'd be able to work it out from the electric schemas but I haven't.

[Of course, with VW's obfuscation over the Cali roof debacle and their substantial funding of a major research centre that in contrast to the many other equivalent research centres throughout the world manages to publish papers in senior science journals indicating that diesel fumes do not harm health, I'm not entirely confident their reason will be transparent.]

I'm sure you're not being funny btw.

Barry, were your neurosurgeon on a psychiatrist?
I share your desire to try to understand

 

[notlob]

Just recently, on 2 separate occasions, I have tried to lower the roof with the engine running and the control panel has flashed up 'ignition on'. I restarted the engine and switched the control panel off and back on and then lowered the roof as usual. Not sure which did the trick in the mild panic of not being able to lower the roof. Any body know what's happening?

 

[sidepod]

What an utterly pointless but of kit the electric roof is.

 

[Roger Boeken]

What an utterly pointless but of kit the electric roof is.

I said the same thing when other cars started to have electric windows, servo steering, central locking etc.. when these fail you also get in trouble but most of the time they work fine..
I would find it a shame if I paid the price of a cali and having to raise the roof by hand ..
Many convertibles have electric opening /closing roof nowadays ..
You can drive with window open in stead of airco and you can use a jerrycan for water, remove everything that can brake down in the cali and what do you get ?