Cyclist's and CoronaVirus

[Lightning]

Quarantine rivalries: forget blitz spirit, everyone has started petty lockdown feuds

In the absence of a concrete enemy, we are venting our anger and anxiety at one another. It is time to take a step back

www.theguardian.com

 

[Amarillo]

Do you have a definitive list? Are you the arbiter? I have found many other ways to ease the boredom, but most of the bottles are now empty.

• eye.
• hip.
• arm.
• leg.
• ear.
• toe.
• jaw.
• rib.

 

[Vagophile]

• eye.
• hip.
• arm.
• leg.
• ear.
• toe.
• jaw.
• rib.

'Twas a rhetorical question in truth.

 

[Mickyb123]

Back to the start of this thread, and the very thoughtful cyclist not cycling on roads and the demand on the NHS.
all I can say is the bloody idiot cyclist with all the gear and no idea who skimmed my shoulder going hell for leather in the opposite direction to me today on a lake side footpath gives you all a bad name. No thought for walkers or runners, no thought at all for social distancing, and no thought for anyone else’s or his own safety.
Before any comments it’s a footpath not a shared path.
Get back on the road is what i say.

 

[Amarillo]

Before any comments it’s a footpath not a shared path.

The term footpath does not imply for the exclusive use of walkers. The only footpaths where cyclists are prohibited by law are the ones alongside roads:

Penalty on persons committing nuisances by riding on footpaths, &c.​

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . If any person shall wilfully ride upon any footpath or causeway by the side of any road made or set apart for the use or accommodation of foot passengers; or shall wilfully lead or drive any horse, ass, sheep, mule, swine, or cattle or carriage of any description, or any truck or sledge, upon any such footpath or causeway; or shall tether any horse, ass, mule, swine, or cattle, on any highway, so as to suffer or permit the tethered animal to be thereon;. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ; every person so offending in any of the cases aforesaid shall for each and every such offence forfeit and pay any sum not exceeding [level 2 on the standard scale], over and above the damages occasioned thereby.​

Or where there is a specific bye-law prohibiting cycling.

That does not excuse selfish, dangerous or inconsiderate cycling, but it does deal with the confusion there may be over the term 'footpath'.

 

[andyinluton]

Amarillo you need to brush up on the law!

Cyclists do not have a right of way on public footpaths, but are not committing a crime. They are committing the tort of trespass against the landowner, who is the only person who can seek a judicial remedy - i.e. damages. If you aren't doing any damage (and not having a rave) then all the landowner can do is ask you to leave. Should you refuse, they can call the police.

& from the highways Act 1980

• “footpath” means a highway over which the public have a right of way on foot only, not being a footway;
• “footway” means a way comprised in a highway which also comprises a carriageway, being a way over which the public have a right of way on foot only

For footpath across field for example you are not allowed to cycle on it, but if you do no one is actually going to do much about it.

Cyclists should be sticking to bridleways and BOATs.

 

[Mickyb123]

Did I suggest he did not have any right to be on the path? Every single walker and runner encountered today paid due respect to current govt advice on social distancing. Every other person encountered today also showed consideration for other people The only person who showed no respect for anyone else was the guy with all the gear! where the idea came that there was confusion over footpath am not sure, apart from maybe trying to find an excuse for pure selfishness and ignorance. Riding anywhere should be done with thought for others.

 

[Joker 1299]

Cyclists do not have a right of way on public footpaths, but are not committing a crime. They are committing the tort of trespass against the landowner, who is the only person who can seek a judicial remedy - i.e. damages. If you aren't doing any damage (and not having a rave) then all the landowner can do is ask you to leave. Should you refuse, they can call the police.

I’m not sure that’s right. Trespass is a civil matter and the police would not be interested.

 

[Mickyb123]

Guy was also riding in a manner and at speed that certainly would have ended up with him either in the lake or wrapped round a tree if he got it wrong, in current times risks he was taking showed scant regard for NHS load.
get back on the road, less likely to end up injured

 

[andyinluton]

I’m not sure that’s right. Trespass is a civil matter and the police would not be interested.

I didn't say they would respond.

 

[pjm-84]

In cycling, I have come across two stereotypical riders. Both make up for deficiencies via material things.

The road rider version used to be called Rapha man. Beautifully attired. Typically a verbal bully. Dismissive of the weaker, older riders and similarly scolding to the stronger riders. Unable to yield. Chases pointless goals and targets. Not willing to put in the hard work/team work in order to become a better, stronger and more considerate rider. Lacks consideration. Most experienced cyclists will know what I'm talking about.

In MTBing it called Santa Cruz "man". (Always seems to be a man issue I'm afraid). Because he has just spent £7k on his bike he doesn't expect to be passed. He will not let you pass. He will show no courtesy on the trail for riders that are faster than him or pedestrians that sometimes stray on to the MTB trails or cross trails. Or when passing kids. These guys are their own worst enemy and can easily fall apart when pressured

I suspect you may have met one of these

 

[SimonC]

It’s interesting how, in the last sixteen pages, many people have found the actions of others to be annoying or dangerous but I’ve seen little evidence of anyone acknowledging that they have ever behaved in an annoying or dangerous manner. I’m not religious but that business about throwing the first stone seems apposite.

In the context of demonising a recognisable subset of society, it might seem harmless fun but maybe it does its own little bit to normalise the attitudes that lead to the dangerous behaviour of a small proportion of motorists. That probably contributes to some of the thousands of cyclists killed or seriously injured each year in the UK alone. Even if they wear lycra they’re somebody’s daughter, grandfather, wife etc. They might even work in the NHS: you might need them.

 

[Borris]

I agree. I'm sure we've all done things in the past that were by design or accident, stupid, mis-judged, dangerous and/or annoying to others but that shouldn't be an excuse. Being discourteous or rude to others isn't right whoever does it and it should also go without saying that regardless of the activity involved, putting people in danger of injury or death by not showing due consideration is unacceptable.

I also agree that there is an atitude problem in a small proportion of motorists which almost certainly contributes to the harm suffered by cyclists each year. However, the reason that cyclists have featured prominantly in this thread is probably to do with its title. There is also clearly an issue with the attitude of a small number of cyclists that must also form a serious contributory factor in this issue. For road users to get along in harmony requires respect for each other. Respect has to be earned. Every time a cyclist is abused or iscut up by a car driver and every time a cyclist ignores a red light or pedestrian crossing then that respect is eroded.


Things ain't gonna change much unless everone at least tries to follow the rules of the road and shows respect and consideration for each other.

 

[blakeley]

I don't think they are angry with cyclists in general, it's just in the current climate. The same reason why I'm not going to attempt to fix that roof tile as lady thing I want is to end up in A&E

 

[Jodalo]

I don't think they are angry with cyclists in general, it's just in the current climate. The same reason why I'm not going to attempt to fix that roof tile as lady thing I want is to end up in A&E

‘Lady thing’? Shurely shum mishtake.

 

[clarinetbcn]

Cyclists? I don't have a problem with cyclists.View attachment 57114

 

[MattC]

"... Respect has to be earned..."

That's the only bit of your post above that I take issue with, and I disagree with it absolutely.

Perhaps for an individual putting themselves forward as something special - a leader, politician, business guru, role model, whatever - then respect does have to be earned to maintain credibility in that sought position.

But respect for any individual simply making a journey, no way! Respect for that person's safety, as a minimum, should be absolute and unconditional. The idea of earned respect for some collective group is dangerous. I can do virtually nothing to influence whether another cyclist jumps a red light or another driver speeds or tailgates. In what way does their poor behaviour reduce my right to a safe journey or give anybody the excuse to treat me a little less safely?

 

[M&E]

But respect for any individual simply making a journey, no way! Respect for that person's safety, as a minimum, should be absolute and unconditional. The idea of earned respect for some collective group is dangerous. I can do virtually nothing to influence whether another cyclist jumps a red light or another driver speeds or tailgates. In what way does their poor behaviour reduce my right to a safe journey or give anybody the excuse to treat me a little less safely?

Most sensible post so far

 

[pjm-84]

Respect...brave

 

[Borris]

That's the only bit of your post above that I take issue with, and I disagree with it absolutely.

Perhaps for an individual putting themselves forward as something special - a leader, politician, business guru, role model, whatever - then respect does have to be earned to maintain credibility in that sought position.

The idea of earned respect for some collective group is dangerous. I can do virtually nothing to influence whether another cyclist jumps a red light or another driver speeds or tailgates. In what way does their poor behaviour reduce my right to a safe journey or give anybody the excuse to treat me a little less safely?

OK I accept it was probably poor use of words on my part. However, you have to admit that currently there is clearly an issue with respect or rather the lack of, between a small minority within different road user groups. Of course an individual can do very little to improve the behaviour of other road users. Furthermore bad behaviour should never impinge on anyone's right to a safe journey. I said as much in my post and although I may have put it badly, I think you know that.

Since there is clearly an issue which centres on lack of respect how then is it to be tackled? The situation won't improve unless those various groups are seen in a different light by those individuals currently harbouring that atitude. Regrettably, I haven't got the answer but if one can be found it could save many unnecessary injuries and deaths.

 

[California4x4]

Respect...brave

View attachment 57171

Oh my, he’s wearing socks and sandals. How ridiculous.

 

[Magic Bus]

In cycling, I have come across two stereotypical riders. Both make up for deficiencies via material things.

The road rider version used to be called Rapha man. Beautifully attired. Typically a verbal bully. Dismissive of the weaker, older riders and similarly scolding to the stronger riders. Unable to yield. Chases pointless goals and targets. Not willing to put in the hard work/team work in order to become a better, stronger and more considerate rider. Lacks consideration. Most experienced cyclists will know what I'm talking about.

In MTBing it called Santa Cruz "man". (Always seems to be a man issue I'm afraid). Because he has just spent £7k on his bike he doesn't expect to be passed. He will not let you pass. He will show no courtesy on the trail for riders that are faster than him or pedestrians that sometimes stray on to the MTB trails or cross trails. Or when passing kids. These guys are their own worst enemy and can easily fall apart when pressured

I suspect you may have met one of these

Isnt this just same as saying that all Audi drivers are nobheads? What you wear/ride/drive doesn’t determine how you behave.

 

[Velma's Dad]

Isnt this just same as saying that all Audi drivers are nobheads? What you wear/ride/drive doesn’t determine how you behave.

I'm an Audi driver and I certainly behave like a bit of a nobhead sometimes.

 

[BerndRos]

 

[Jodalo]

I'm an Audi driver and I certainly behave like a bit of a nobhead sometimes.

Don’t we all? I do strive to be perfect though.