Disability hoist drains leisure batteries

[ClaudeVanJan]

Hi,
My son has a 2021 Coast and it was adapted March 21 to incorporate a motorised hoist to lift his mobility scooter into the rear.
Everything's been working perfectly for the last 17 months ...then a couple of weeks after the dealership did a software update due to an issue with the media display console on the dash the hoist went on a go slow and won't lift any longer.....it seams a bit of a coincidence but the dealer says not !!

I checked the battery level and its showing 0h and 13.5V/0A.....even a 500mile round trip with nothing switched on didn't move the 0h
Took it to the dealership today and they told me the 2 leisure batteries were defective and it has been caused by the hoist ...hence can't be covered under warranty they say....charged me £138 for diagnostic test...ouch!!!
The 2 diagnostic reports from them show each battery are identical at
Voltage 6.2v
Measured 16A (din)
Rated 420 A (din)
Temp 18 deg

We have a 2019 Ocean and its battery display says 12.6V / 100%
I don't begin to understand any of the diagnosis but it if the Coast displayed voltage of 13.5v is around the same as the is Ocean displayed voltage of 12.6v how can they claim its the batteries that are defective and not the split charger.??

So I have a couple of questions please...
Should I put the van on hook up charge or is that a waste of time now.
Should the hoist be connected to the main battery rather than the leisure batteries.
How can I test if its the charger

Thanks in advance

 

[yossarian]

I would put a volt meter on each battery as a first step.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

Coast 13.5v reading must be taken whilst it is charging. Fully charged battery will show around 12.7v (12.6, 95%) whilst not charging.

Turn engine off, unplug any electric hookup. wait 10mins for battery to settle and get a another reading.

Once you have got the issue sorted, it might be worth getting some solar panels fitted; Batteries will then top up whilst parked up.

 

[ClaudeVanJan]

Thanks ...I'll give that a go tomorrow....what should I be looking for as a guide to a good/bad reading ??

 

[Ch1pbutty]

Thanks ...I'll give that a go tomorrow....what should I be looking for as a guide to a good/bad reading ??

How much voltage does a car battery need to start?

For a car with a 12V engine, the normal value before starting is between 12.2V and 12.8V, and it should not exceed 14.8V after starting. The minimum voltage to start the car should be 11.8V.

www.lokithorshop.com

 

[ClaudeVanJan]

Coast 13.5v reading must be taken whilst it is charging. Fully charged battery will show around 12.7v (12.6, 95%) whilst not charging.

Turn engine off, unplug any electric hookup. wait 10mins for battery to settle and get a another reading.

Once you have got the issue sorted, it might be worth getting some solar panels fitted; Batteries will then top up whilst parked up.

Thanks.... Coast 13.5v reading was taken just after I'd had driven it for 30mins on MAX charge.....its been stationary for around an hour and display is showing 12.6v which would suggest its fully charged.

Cant understand why the 0d reading doesn't increase

 

[yossarian]

Thanks ...I'll give that a go tomorrow....what should I be looking for as a guide to a good/bad reading ??

Post your readings here you'll get the low down.

Each battery should be *exactly* the same voltage, around 12.7V for fully charged batteries.

Edit: maybe also post a picture of your control panel graphic.

 

[WelshGas]

Thanks.... Coast 13.5v reading was taken just after I'd had driven it for 30mins on MAX charge.....its been stationary for around an hour and display is showing 12.6v which would suggest its fully charged.

Cant understand why the 0d reading doesn't increase

There are 2 Leisure Batteries wired in parallel. There is a 75 amp cube fuse on the red +tve pole of the rear leisure battery. If that blows and it is very fragile, then you only have 1 leisure battery being used.
Everything electrical is connected to the front leisure battery.

If the voltages are very different and the fuse blown, Do Not just replace the fuse.
Disconnect and remove the rear battery, charge it with a standalone battery charger then replace and fit a new fuse.

 

[yossarian]

And when checking the aft battery put the probe below the cube fuse, not on top. On top it will actually read the forward battery.

 

[Kingfisher]

A somewhat likely culprit would be that the hoist has been connected to the rear battery (below the fuse), if only for its convenient rear location. If then the cube fuse blows at some point, you are left with the single rear battery powering the hoist and never ever being charged. In no way will you notice this fuse being out, except the hoist just quitting at some point. Likely also ruining the rear battery, Front battery, the one you are measuring via the control panel, should still be okay.

 

[ClaudeVanJan]

A somewhat likely culprit would be that the hoist has been connected to the rear battery (below the fuse), if only for its convenient rear location. If then the cube fuse blows at some point, you are left with the single rear battery powering the hoist and never ever being charged. In no way will you notice this fuse being out, except the hoist just quitting at some point. Likely also ruining the rear battery, Front battery, the one you are measuring via the control panel, should still be okay.

Thanks Kingfisher....thats exactly how its wired. How would I know if the cube fuse is blown and more importantly...where is it and what does it look like ?? Thanks

 

[ClaudeVanJan]

And when checking the aft battery put the probe below the cube fuse, not on top. On top it will actually read the forward battery.

Thanks....am going to get a multimeter today to check....what is a cube fuse and where is it ??
Thanks for taking the time ..cheers

 

[WelshGas]

Thanks Kingfisher....thats exactly how its wired. How would I know if the cube fuse is blown and more importantly...where is it and what does it look like ?? Thanks

It is on the rear Leisure Battery red +tve pole.

 

[ClaudeVanJan]

It is on the rear Leisure Battery red +tve pole.
View attachment 97113View attachment 97114

thanks Welsh Gas.....I've found it.....how can you know if its blown??

It is on the rear Leisure Battery red +tve pole.
View attachment 97113View attachment 97114

Hi...in between grandkids swimming lessons , dog walks and lunch I've managed to get some multimeter readings
Front leisure 12.5 v
Rear leisure 6.18 v....taken above the cube fuse as I couldn't manage to get below it.

Does this tell me that the front battery is ok but the rear needs replaced or can the rear be charged up via home hook up cable ??

PS hoist company say their hoist should not be impacting or degrading the battery and they connect them to leisure batteries a lot and have no probs

Thanks

 

[yossarian]

thanks Welsh Gas.....I've found it.....how can you know if its blown??

Hi...in between grandkids swimming lessons , dog walks and lunch I've managed to get some multimeter readings
Front leisure 12.5 v
Rear leisure 6.18 v....taken above the cube fuse as I couldn't manage to get below it.

Does this tell me that the front battery is ok but the rear needs replaced or can the rear be charged up via home hook up cable ??

PS hoist company say their hoist should not be impacting or degrading the battery and they connect them to leisure batteries a lot and have no probs

Thanks

If the batteries are at different voltages then they are no longer connected together. This is almost always due to the fuse.

You need to charge the 6 V battery with a good battery charger and replace the fuse.

 

[yossarian]

Replacing the fuse without charging is not a good idea.

 

[andyinluton]

Sounds like the fuse has gone so as others suggested above, just the rear battery being drained by the hoist & no way of recharging it.

If you have a separate charger, I would completely disconnect the rear battery & see if it will accept a charge, if it does, charge it, replace the cube fuse & reconnect the batteries.

If you just replace the fuse it will probably blow straight away as the rear battery will draw a large current from the front one as the state of charge is so different.

 

[yossarian]

The next question is why was the fault not shown to you on the front panel? You might post a photo of your panel graphic and of the wiring on your rear battery.

 

[WelshGas]

thanks Welsh Gas.....I've found it.....how can you know if its blown??

Hi...in between grandkids swimming lessons , dog walks and lunch I've managed to get some multimeter readings
Front leisure 12.5 v
Rear leisure 6.18 v....taken above the cube fuse as I couldn't manage to get below it.

Does this tell me that the front battery is ok but the rear needs replaced or can the rear be charged up via home hook up cable ??

PS hoist company say their hoist should not be impacting or degrading the battery and they connect them to leisure batteries a lot and have no probs

Thanks

Remove the rear leisure battery.
Recharge it with a battery charger. Once fully charged then replace it , fitting a new 75amp Cube Fuse.
NB, when removing the rear battery, undo the battery clamp bolt. Use a Paint scraper or thick knife blade to ease up the front of the battery over the lip of the battery compartment. The battery leads are long enough to lift the battery into the boot area.
Then disconnect the Black -tve lead and the Red +tve lead and wrap the red lead in a dry cloth or rubber glove. IT is still live as it is connected to the front Leisure battery.
Remove cube fuse, charge battery , new fuse , reconnect battery and replace battery in compartment.

Cube Fuse.

Cube (Battery Terminal) Fuses

Battery terminal (or cube) fuses that mount directly into a battery terminal clamp, eliminating any unprotected section of cable. For auto & marine use.

www.12voltplanet.co.uk

Battery charger if you don’t have one or cannot borrow one.

CTEK Battery Chargers - CTEK Chargers - Next Day Delivery

CTEK Chargers are the highest performance smart battery chargers that money can buy for home and light commercial use. All CTEK chargers are fully automatic. We offer the full range of CTEK chargers at great prices with next day delivery available.

www.tayna.co.uk

 

[ClaudeVanJan]

The next question is why was the fault not shown to you on the front panel? You might post a photo of your panel graphic and of the wiring on your rear battery.

Hi Yossarian....thats the weird thing ...there has been no 'fault' or empty battery notices on the display panel.
I've got it on hook up to test
.....if the hoist runs properly on hook-up.....it doesn't !!
.....if the mains plug on the kitchen works as it should....and it does.

attached are the pics of display before hook up and also while on hook up
One thing I've just noticed is that on the pre-hook pic from up yesterday, there are 3 of the battery fins that are a darker colour but on the current hook-up pic there are just 2 fins that are darker.
I'm assuming fully charged would show them all as bright blue....so not sure how significant 1 fin turning blue is !!

 

[ClaudeVanJan]

Remove the rear leisure battery.
Recharge it with a battery charger. Once fully charged then replace it , fitting a new 75amp Cube Fuse.
NB, when removing the rear battery, undo the battery clamp bolt. Use a Paint scraper or thick knife blade to ease up the front of the battery over the lip of the battery compartment. The battery leads are long enough to lift the battery into the boot area.
Then disconnect the Black -tve lead and the Red +tve lead and wrap the red lead in a dry cloth or rubber glove. IT is still live as it is connected to the front Leisure battery.
Remove cube fuse, charge battery , new fuse , reconnect battery and replace battery in compartment.

Cube Fuse.

Cube (Battery Terminal) Fuses

Battery terminal (or cube) fuses that mount directly into a battery terminal clamp, eliminating any unprotected section of cable. For auto & marine use.

www.12voltplanet.co.uk

Battery charger if you don’t have one or cannot borrow one.

CTEK Battery Chargers - CTEK Chargers - Next Day Delivery

CTEK Chargers are the highest performance smart battery chargers that money can buy for home and light commercial use. All CTEK chargers are fully automatic. We offer the full range of CTEK chargers at great prices with next day delivery available.

www.tayna.co.uk

Thanks WelshGas...
I'm taking it into the fitter who did the rear hoist conversion tomorrow and he will do a battery test for me.
Cant understand why VW told me both batteries were done and needed to be replaced....Im going to question their battery diagnostics tomorrow also.
Thanks for the fuse and charger links

 

[The Tall Luthier]

I have nothing to offer but pride in the technical abilities of forum members and their willingness to help. Oh and absolute disgust that a dealership charged you £138 to diagnose a problem, and didn't, and you still had to come to this forum afterwards for a solution. Shame on them!

 

[ClaudeVanJan]

I have nothing to offer but pride in the technical abilities of forum members and their willingness to help. Oh and absolute disgust that a dealership charged you £138 to diagnose a problem, and didn't, and you still had to come to this forum afterwards for a solution. Shame on them!

My sentiments exactly .....so much respect for all those who are offering help and suggestions....its a big learning curve for us and we need to get it right as my son needs his van and a working hoist to take him to his comedy gigs....he may not have a voice but he'll be letting rip with the dealership once we sort this ...dont you worry !!

 

[yossarian]

Hi Yossarian....thats the weird thing ...there has been no 'fault' or empty battery notices on the display panel.

This is indeed odd. It appears to me that the van has been re coded or otherwise modified to tell it it has only one battery. Thus it is not monitoring the health of battery no 2 and informing you of the battery imbalance caused by the blown fuse.

I've got it on hook up to test
.....if the hoist runs properly on hook-up.....it doesn't !!

To be expected if the hoist is wired to the second battery.

attached are the pics of display before hook up and also while on hook up
One thing I've just noticed is that on the pre-hook pic from up yesterday, there are 3 of the battery fins that are a darker colour but on the current hook-up pic there are just 2 fins that are darker.
I'm assuming fully charged would show them all as bright blue....so not sure how significant 1 fin turning blue is !!

All looks normal for a one battery van with possibly a low SOH (state of health) measured by the battery sensor.

Speculation: the hoist installation might be sub-optimal. In particular there's a strong possibility the hoist has been wired directly to the aft battery negative, bypassing the battery sensor and then various things done to make the resultant errors go away.

For better advice please take some good, detailed photos of the wiring on the aft battery.

In my opinion you should identify your VW dealership and never go back there. Bonus if you can get any of your money back .

 

[ClaudeVanJan]

This is indeed odd. It appears to me that the van has been re coded or otherwise modified to tell it it has only one battery. Thus it is not monitoring the health of battery no 2 and informing you of the battery imbalance caused by the blown fuse.


To be expected if the hoist is wired to the second battery.


All looks normal for a one battery van with possibly a low SOH (state of health) measured by the battery sensor.

Speculation: the hoist installation might be sub-optimal. In particular there's a strong possibility the hoist has been wired directly to the aft battery negative, bypassing the battery sensor and then various things done to make the resultant errors go away.

For better advice please take some good, detailed photos of the wiring on the aft battery.

In my opinion you should identify your VW dealership and never go back there. Bonus if you can get any of your money back .

Strange you should mention about a possible recoding...the van had to have a software update early July because the media centre went a bit haywire. Dealer said van needed to bi for a full day as it was apparently a 'big' job....this issue then occurs about 2 weeks after that.

Anyway back to the wiring...
as best as I can see the hoist is all wired to the +ve terminal....nothing appears to be wired to the -ve side.
As I've fished around the wiring to the back of the battery I've found an unattached wire which may just be one that was left after the van conversion ( the water / gas holders had to be removed to fit the hoist)
Best pics I could get of both terminals and the 'spare' wire