EU Referendum - 23rd June - How will you vote?

EU Referendum

  • Stay in the EU

    Votes: 90 51.4%
  • Leave the EU

    Votes: 85 48.6%

  • Total voters
    175
  • Poll closed .
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Made my blood boil

Were you concerned that the Kinnocks were encouraging people to vote, or were you concerned that they were encouraging people to vote 'remain', or was your concern purely over their salaries and pensions?
 
Agreed, though I would add that this in itself isn't an argument for voting to Leave. We could easily fix this and remain in the EU ;)
I agree it would be possible and I am more than happy to agree the issue is far more important than the personalities involved. It is far from the most important issue to me but is another log on the fire.


Mike
 
BJ desperately clinging to the supposed facts that the UK pays £50m a day to the EU (the real figure is one-third of this after the rebate) and that a vote to remain means signing up to an additional £2.4bn of additional bail-out funding (As part of the UK's pre-referendum negotiatons we secured an opt out on this).

https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.n...original/1465202472/contrickv2.pdf?1465202472
Agreed we pay £50m / day to EU and we get a rebate of about ? 45% BUT we have No Control over how that rebate is spent as that is decided by the EU. Sorry, but that isn't a rebate in my eyes, but you are free to Disagree as you no doubt will.
 
Were you concerned that the Kinnocks were encouraging people to vote, or were you concerned that they were encouraging people to vote 'remain', or was your concern purely over their salaries and pensions?
I will answer any of these questions in relation to anyone else but my answers are going to be tarnished if I answer them with the Kinnock name attached. I made it quite clear, if this self serving idiot wants to start to utter anything about the EU I would want any self respecting journalist to hit him with a few pertinent questions. If he was in the OUT camp I would be saying the same thing. He should get back under his comfortable stone.


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Anyone who doubts what I've been saying in this thread, just read this:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...out-of-uk-assets-at-fastest-pace-since-finan/
For goodness sake Fred of course money had been coming out of sterling. It's what markets do. If I had been traveling to mainland Europe I would have stocking up on some euros or hedging. It's what the business world does, it is not an argument for or against being in the EU. It is a consequence of uncertainty in our capitalist world.


Mike
 
£59bn in one month is not people "stocking up on euros". It's capital flight on a scale not seen since the GFC. And that's just on the marginal possibility of Brexit.
 
£59bn in one month is not people "stocking up on euros". It's capital flight on a scale not seen since the GFC. And that's just on the marginal possibility of Brexit.
I give up Fred. Seriously I do. Of course I'm not saying that. It was an example of how damned obvious it is. Uncertainty breeds fear. I shan't be bothering to reply again I'm afraid as its pointless. I thought you worked in finance.


Mike
 
Sorry for misunderstanding you Mike. This is not money coming out of sterling, it's money coming out of ALL assets. I'm glad this is obvious to you (and of course it's obvious to me else I wouldn't have been saying it) but my view has previously been met with quite a lot of scepticism here. I wanted to point out that capital flight is actually happening right now.

I don't agree that it's an inevitable consequence, this is entirely avoidable!
 
Shouldn't that be FLIGHT?

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Shouldn't that be FLIGHT?

The capitalisation of 'FLIGHT' made me think that perhaps it was an acronym. A quick Google surf brought me to this piece of information on Wikipedia, I suspected this would be true as Eastern and Central European countries develop:

"Central and Eastern European countries have expressed concerns about extensive migration of skilled labourers to Ireland and the United Kingdom. Lithuania, for example, has lost about 100,000 citizens since 2003, many of them young and well-educated, to emigration to Ireland in particular.[citation needed] (Ireland itself used to experience high rates of human capital flight to America, Britain and Canada before the Celtic Tigereconomic programmes.) A similar phenomenon occurred in Poland after its entry into the European Union. In the first year of its EU membership, 100,000 Poles registered to work in England, joining an estimated 750,000 residents of Polish descent.[40] Research conducted by PKO Bank Polski, Poland's largest retail bank, shows that 63% of Polish immigrants to the UK were aged between 24 and 35, with 40% possessing a university degree.[41] However, with the rapid growth of salaries in Poland, its booming economy, the strong value of the złoty, and decreasing unemployment (which fell from 14.2% in May 2006 to 8% in March 2008[42]), the flight of Polish workers slowed.[43] In 2008 and early 2009 people who came back outnumbered those leaving the country."
 
Sorry for misunderstanding you Mike. This is not money coming out of sterling, it's money coming out of ALL assets. I'm glad this is obvious to you (and of course it's obvious to me else I wouldn't have been saying it) but my view has previously been met with quite a lot of scepticism here. I wanted to point out that capital flight is actually happening right now.

I don't agree that it's an inevitable consequence, this is entirely avoidable!

My final post on this subject you will be relieved to hear

Once a referendum was called it was inevitable to a greater or lesser extent. Some of the flight, however much it is will be institutions looking to profit from the uncertainty. It's a massive trading opportunity.

I don't think anyone is disputing that there will be short term financial consequences. The question is what will be the long term result if we exit and what may happen if we remain. There are risks in both. Frankly I don't think anyone can say with any certainty and even if there is some economic loss is it a price worth paying. In fact who would be paying this price if it did occur, the discussion could go on forever as it is speculation. Perhaps profits would be hit for a few large companies, perish the thought.

Whenever even small changes are made in policy there are unforeseen circumstances so one thing is for certain it would be turbulent if we left but it may be less turbulent in the future.
You could equally argue that if we stayed in, the EU would have a greater chance of surviving but I tend to think that we are growing further apart as a consequence of rightly not being in the single currency and this combined with our other opt outs already had us on the outside of the tent.

Time to go I say but I don't know if I'm right.

To be clear I don't want less immigration but I want it controlled and greater diversity. Greater diversity and mixing of people and cultures will improve our lives and security as tolerance and understanding is improved. It is why I have issue with the assumption that voting out is considered anti immigration. It is for some and I can understand the argument of cheap labour driving down wages, again this has good consequences and bad ones.

One of the selling points of the EU is the greater security of the bigger tent. I believe this security is false as recent events have shown, yes we should share information and help our neighbours but we should also be open to the world and show them that we are.

I'm out of this debate on here now and wish everyone good luck with what is a very important, complex and difficult decision.

I have 2 weeks left to make my decision and shall spend it looking for reasons to change it, not confirm it.

Edit: About time Andrew Neil got pensioned off, sorry sacked.

He is ruining any debate and is objectionable. His method of interview is to have a preset list of questions which he continues to go through, repeatedly, despite the answers given. Treats both sides badly. Disgraceful!










Mike
 
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Many people here in Germany would like a referendum vote, we have many problems with people coming here from all over the world, it is big problem and now so much crime in city's and it is getting worse every day.
 
They have been discussing this on another forum I belong to and the replies have made some very intersting reading, I know you guys on here don't like 'off topic' chat very much but its worth a go?

The Cali owners' poll has really tightened up, with the outs now a whisker ahead.
 
It seems to broadly follow the national trend, one pollster suggesting that as decision time approaches a lot of the swing voters are swinging to leave.

For me it has been a miserable, uninspiring debate nationally.

It started off with the leavers having no answer other than blustering buffoon Boris dismissing every remain argument as scare tactics whilst having no arguments of his own. However we then had remain starting to believe in their own rhetoric and developing a policy of spouting more and more gloom and doom that now seems less based on fact and more based on "ramp up the scare". Well, one thing the Brits are not and that is easily intimidated and I think those tactics are now rebounding on them.

For me if we leave then remain lost it. Beating the same drum ever louder loses credibility, at least with me.
 
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Will be in Scotland and I missed the ********* postal vote application deadline. Was really annoyed as I believe it was a ploy by the Wife. (Remain vs Out)

If we vote out I will accept it and we deserve what happens. SIPS has taken an hiding today as the markets have the jitters. Again I forgot to sell (made mental note to consider selling two weeks before the vote) while the going was good so only have my self to blame. Must work less. Need a holiday
 
Thanks, downloaded, form completed, ready to be dropped in after lunch.
 
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