EU Referendum - 23rd June - How will you vote?

[T6 CFO]

Quite interesting to see how the media are handling the debates. In general I would say, not very well. They cannot seem to remember that it isn't an election with clear sides and clear leaders who can dictate to their members along party lines on every issue. In general elections the media or opposing side always like to make a big play when someone's steps out of line or says something ridiculous and they are still doing it now. This is different of course there are going to be differences and wild statements as there is no one cracking the whip on either side as both the remain and out groups are cross party.

Michael Gove was on The Sky debate tonight and once he got over the debacle of the 350 million question his message was fairly clear and one that the remain camp will not like.

He was selling a multi cultural inclusive Britain that could control its own destiny and be good neighbours with the EU rather than a reluctant guest. The remain group seem to be sticking to fear.

This is going to get interesting as I feel momentum is building and the debate if the media will allow it is improving.




Mike

 

[WelshGas]

It will be interesting to see how closely the poll here reflects the nationwide poll, and if it is a more accurate indicator than other opinion polls.

Does anyone know why Marine Le Pen in France and Lutz Bachmann in Germany would support Brexit? Is it because they don't like any foreigners, or do they feel that the rest of the EU could shut Britain out of a lucrative market?

More likely that they believe the EU will fail if the UK leaves, or that they would have better grounds to demand their own referendum.

 

[marshian70]

Michael Gove was on The Sky debate tonight and once he got over the debacle of the 350 million question his message was fairly clear and one that the remain camp will not like.

Sorry, and whilst not wishing to turn this into a political debate, I can't believe anything that Mr Gove says after the changes he pushed through to our Education system.

 

[jts46]

There is a feeling here in France that they and Germany may have a referendum as well

 

[T6 CFO]

Sorry, and whilst not wishing to turn this into a political debate, I can't believe anything that Mr Gove says after the changes he pushed through to our Education system.

As someone who had a daughter-in-law as a teacher and had to leave because of the damage it was doing to her I've got no love for Michael GOVE. So I understand the sentiment completely. Frankly I would hardly trust a word any of them say.

The thrust of my point was on the way the debate is being handled by the media and the big message that both sides are portraying. The remain camp being one of fear and the out camp being one of a strong independent future.

I don't even know if this is the case but it is the feeling that I am getting and was looking at it from the point of, if true, how will it play out.

As previously stated I am in the Out camp but I must admit that I have alway believed that we would stay in. I am now beginning to wonder if this is the case.


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[marshian70]

Humour me, what if we vote OUT and it turns out not to provide the expected benefits, and that actually being in the EU was better after all. Easy of course to say, but on a serious point what would the implications be? Would there be a realistic opportunity to re-join and what would the timescales for doing so be? Presumably it would require yet another referendum, and presumably our position in the EU would be weaker as a consequence?

 

[pjm-84]

I would agree there is a real swing to out and it may be a possibility. I think the remain tactics have played into the hands of the out campaign. Also seems to be a real personal hate campaign against DC, judging by the comments in some of the papers, and Labour are sitting silently in the wings.

If we had TTIPs in place I would vote out without hesitation. Lets see.

Most Cali owners are in a fortunate position to "weather" any possible financial consequences from coming out

 

[Keith Smith]

I think there is a distinct possibility that a vote for out is a vote for Boris as PM, which is a frightening thought. Boris and Trump, leaders of the free world, I've got a house brick that has more common sense than both of them put together.

 

[aileron346]

It still feels to me as if there is a reasonable majority for remain. Where it will get interesting is the generational split. More Brexiteers seem to be elderly who tend to actually vote. The young who seem to be overwhelmingly in favour of remaining vote far less in general and yet, of course, the outcome will affect them for much longer. Queuing up in a musty church hall to put a pencil cross on a piece of paper seems s bit cumbersome to the generation brought up being able to do anything with a few clicks on a screen. I really hope the young turn out on this one.


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[T6 CFO]

I think there is a distinct possibility that a vote for out is a vote for Boris as PM, which is a frightening thought. Boris and Trump, leaders of the free world, I've got a house brick that has more common sense than both of them put together.

I agree but this is far bigger than personalities or who is going to be the next PM. They come and go as do policies. In or out this is far bigger than that and who is on each side of the debate has no importance for me whatsoever.


Mike

 

[T6 CFO]

It still feels to me as if there is a reasonable majority for remain. Where it will get interesting is the generational split. More Brexiteers seem to be elderly who tend to actually vote. The young who seem to be overwhelmingly in favour of remaining vote far less in general and yet, of course, the outcome will affect them for much longer. Queuing up in a musty church hall to put a pencil cross on a piece of paper seems s bit cumbersome to the generation brought up being able to do anything with a few clicks on a screen. I really hope the young turn out on this one.


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I agree with you and that remain still seems the most likely. It's a hard one on whether it should be compulsory with the option to abstain. To a large extent though if you can't be bothered to register or turn up on the day it is most likely you haven't given it enough thought to make a choice. Personally I hope their is a good turnout and a decisive vote in either direction is best with a high turnout.



Mike

 

[LowMan]

I think there is a distinct possibility that a vote for out is a vote for Boris as PM, which is a frightening thought. Boris and Trump, leaders of the free world, I've got a house brick that has more common sense than both of them put together.

I think you're being a little unfair on house bricks!

 

[Amarillo]

Where it will get interesting is the generational split.

There are a number of 'splits' here. regional, age, political (interesting that fewer than 100% of ukip voters will be voting 'leave'), education, social class, newspaper.

I wonder what the Beach/Ocean split might be.

 

[GrannyJen]

There are a number of 'splits' here. regional, age, political (interesting that fewer than 100% of ukip voters will be voting 'leave'), education, social class, newspaper.

I wonder what the Beach/Ocean split might be.

subdivided into DSG / Manual?

 

[Keith Smith]

subdivided into DSG / Manual?

We need someone to draw up a spreadsheet!

 

[Amarillo]

subdivided into DSG / Manual?

4Motion/2Motion?

 

[T6 CFO]

I know this is easy but I'm afraid I can't help myself, probably best I stay out of the debate after this as its not good for my health.

Anyway I was having a late cup of tea and stumbled across this.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36447926

Made my blood boil in the past when I think of him and his family profiting from our EU membership so I do a quick search and come up with this.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/campaign-highlights-kinnocks-10m-eu-2100178

There are many more articles on this issue.

Yes it's a cheap shot and actually I reckon it is a bigger indictment on us than it is on the EU.

It just made my stomach churn. He and his family are not alone.


Mike

 

[Flood51]

I know this is easy but I'm afraid I can't help myself, probably best I stay out of the debate after this as its not good for my health.

Anyway I was having a late cup of tea and stumbled across this.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36447926

Made my blood boil in the past when I think of him and his family profiting from our EU membership so I do a quick search and come up with this.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/campaign-highlights-kinnocks-10m-eu-2100178

There are many more articles on this issue.

Yes it's a cheap shot and actually I reckon it is a bigger indictment on us than it is on the EU.

It just made my stomach churn. He and his family are not alone.


Mike

The Kinnocks turned the EU into a family business, please don't research what their combined pensions are as then you will be sick.

Voted out yesterday. Continue to illustrate the benefits of leaving to my daughters and their friends but half of them won't vote anyway.

 

[Flood51]

Sorry Mike, just read the second link.

 

[Keith Smith]

Ludicrous salaries are endemic right across senior management in both public and private sector, and if you want to really get upset look at the salaries some charity bosses pay themselves. This is nothing to do with the EU, it's greed at the top of the food chain right across the board (room).

 

[fred]

@T6 CFO I think it's an important point but perhaps you're right, it's more of an indictment on us than the EU or the Kinnocks. After all, Farrage has been up to it for years, claiming £2m in salary and expenses. And Farage is being investigated for expense fraud for his claims, as well as UKIP doing the least work of any party.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/may/24/mps-expenses-ukip-nigel-farage
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...y-party-in-the-eus-28-countries-10316962.html

For me this shows how little we UK voters are willing to hold our democratically elected MEPs accountable for representing us effectively, as well as the general message we send to other European members about the British people.

edit: just to clarify this point, of 12 UKIP MEPs elected, one (Kilroy-silk) left to set up a rival party, two have been jailed for expense fraud, two others have admitted expense fraud and had to repay £40,000 in false claims, and Farage himself is facing fraud allegations for admitting that he claimed £150,000 for rent for a free office.
https://euromove.blogactiv.eu/2013/...for-what-they-really-are-–-lazy-unprincipled/

 

[fred]

This, in the context of the repeated domestic MP's expenses fraud scandals, gives the rest of the world a very dim view of the relative quality of our democracy.

 

[T6 CFO]

Ludicrous salaries are endemic right across senior management in both public and private sector, and if you want to really get upset look at the salaries some charity bosses pay themselves. This is nothing to do with the EU, it's greed at the top of the food chain right across the board (room).

I agree. Unfortunately I have previously researched the charities sector and yes it is endemic. There is unbridled greed everywhere and I take particular dislike to it when they are our so called representatives.


Mike

 

[T6 CFO]

@T6 CFO I think it's an important point but perhaps you're right, it's more of an indictment on us than the EU or the Kinnocks. After all, Farrage has been up to it for years, claiming £2m in salary and expenses. And Farage is being investigated for expense fraud for his claims, as well as UKIP doing the least work of any party.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/may/24/mps-expenses-ukip-nigel-farage
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...y-party-in-the-eus-28-countries-10316962.html

For me this shows how little we UK voters are willing to hold our democratically elected MEPs accountable for representing us effectively, as well as the general message we send to other European members about the British people.

edit: just to clarify this point, of 12 UKIP MEPs elected, one (Kilroy-silk) left to set up a rival party, two have been jailed for expense fraud, two others have admitted expense fraud and had to repay £40,000 in false claims, and Farage himself is facing fraud allegations for admitting that he claimed £150,000 for rent for a free office.
https://euromove.blogactiv.eu/2013/...for-what-they-really-are-–-lazy-unprincipled/

Some of the 73 EMP who would be unemployed if we left.


Mike

 

[fred]

Some of the 73 EMP who would be unemployed if we left.


Mike

Agreed, though I would add that this in itself isn't an argument for voting to Leave. We could easily fix this and remain in the EU