Family of 10 turn down 5 bedroom house

[AlanH99]

Nobody is defending lazy exploiters of lax systems.

I will not accuse Arnold of being lazy, but he does seem to be an exploiter of a lax system.

And if anyone complains about him, they seem to get criticised as Little Englanders - You, or racists - Crispin Family.

Stop confusing indignation of being exploited as racism.

 

[AlanH99]

You are in fact confusing the distinction he made. One can have a personal moral aversion to some behaviour but long as it's not illegal there is nothing one can do...

Can I criticise it? Please Sir? Can I? Or are we in a society were we can't criticise someone, unless they're British?

 

[GrannyJen]

Meanwhile in Aleppo the cease fire holds with only 110 people reported killed, most of them children, in the last 48 hours.

Oh dear, meanwhile someone with a few kids turns down a house in Luton. How nice to have first world problems.

 

[T6 CFO]

No, that's not what I am saying.

What I am saying is that if you perceive something to be wrong, but it is within the rules, you should direct your anger towards the rules.

Ian Cameron, the former Prime Minister's late father, set up a company, Blairmore Holdings Inc, to avoid UK tax. What he did was perfectly legal. If you think it was wrong, your anger should be directed to the rules which make it legal, not to the late Ian Cameron.

It's quite impossible to post any observation on here without the reader making presumptions as a result of there firmly dug in position or as a result of comments made by others.

It is wrong to screw the system whoever you are, wherever you are from etc etc.
Because the system has flaws it does not mean that it is justifiable to exploit them.
To date you have argued that it is or am I wrong.
Why we have to take everything to the level of a PHD thesis is beyond me.




Mike

 

[AlanH99]

Meanwhile in Aleppo the cease fire holds with only 110 people reported killed, most of them children, in the last 48 hours.

Oh dear, meanwhile someone with a few kids turns down a house in Luton. How nice to have first world problems.

So true, so true. We should all take note of what is implied by this information. Don't complain about having too few bedrooms for your family when you've got accommodation for free and others are being killed in their homes.

Arnold, you don't know how lucky you are.

 

[Amarillo]

la terre est ronde

Non, la terre est sphérique.

 

[AlanH99]

Non, la terre est sphérique.

Absolutely correct, but I didn't want to sound like a smartarse when others said it is round.

 

[Amarillo]

Why we have to take everything to the level of a PHD thesis is beyond me.

I am trying to make the point in quite simple terms - but you still don't seem to grasp it.

At the cycle bridge at Elverson Road DLR station, selfish motorists used to routinely park blocking access. Cyclists would leave notes on the windscreens asking them to leave a gap. That was the wrong strategy. The right strategy was to lobby Greenwich Council to build out the footway to make a gap for cyclists wanting to access the cycle bridge.

Before:
https://goo.gl/maps/pmsECigk1ju

After:
https://goo.gl/maps/E487vhnXGyK2

It doesn't make the motorists who used to block the access any more or less selfish, but by correctly identifying the body responsible for causing the problem, the problem could be resolved.

Blaming Mr Sube for claiming his entitlements is unlikely to get you very far, just as cyclists leaving notes on car windscreens had little or no noticeable effect. Identify the body responsible and lobby them, if you feel the necessity.

 

[Ethel's dad]

Absolutely correct, but I didn't want to sound like a smartarse when others said it is round.

Careful now, don't go calling anyone smart arse (especially yourself) it could be misconstrued

 

[VW Cali]

As I don't wish to bore everyone I shall make this my final post to you and request that you don't hi jack conversations between myself and others to continue your perceived feud.
For the record our communication started on the "other thread" when I pointed out a possibly misleading statement. Rather than correct it you went off the deep end. Also for the record I referred to you after some provocation as a "smart arse"
You my friend can be the sole occupier of my ignore list.



Mike

You have got your facts deliberately wrong:

First, I have no feud with anyone. Fact.

Second, these are not private conversations that are hijacked by anyone commenting. Get this fact.

Third, on other thread, I made a funny comment as reply to another person's post. You waded and accused me of deliberate misrepresentation of fact. When I humorously pointed out that there was no misrepresentation, you called me a "smart arse."

It does appear that you want to pick personal arguments for the sake of it

And then you accuse me of doing so. I have been very patient, and will remain so.

Put simply, stay consistent with facts, and try to avoid getting personal. It seems you want to prove some point, and when not getting your way, or you get a response that shows there may have been misinterpretation on your part, you get personal.

So:

1. I am not a smart arse. I was being humorous, which others understood. You refused.

2. You accused me of misrepresentation of facts and acted some board policeman.

Both 1 and 2 above poor approach, and I ignored it. You didn't correct either.

You responded toba crystal clear post from someone by saying you find their logic very strange.

When I explained their logic, you waded in not sticking to point under discussion, but getting personal again.

Misinterpreting what people say is one thing. Getting personal after they clarify is another.

 

[Amarillo]

And if anyone complains about him, they seem to get criticised as Little Englanders - You, or racists - Crispin Family.

I am not sure where in this thread I have labelled any poster as a racist, but as you have claimed it, I expect you will either support your claim with evidence, explain how I have misinterpreted your comment or withdraw the claim and apologise.

 

[Ethel's dad]

I will not accuse Arnold of being lazy, but he does seem to be an exploiter of a lax system.

And if anyone complains about him, they seem to get criticised as Little Englanders - You, or racists - Crispin Family.

Stop confusing indignation of being exploited as racism.

I don't think any one has accused anyone other than the newspaper of being racist - singling out Crispin family is pointless, you are expressing yourself and your views, as am I, in a public forum which is free speech if i am not mistaken. You and everyone on here is entitled to an opinion, not unsurprisingly, a vehicle like the California has a wide range of owners (purchase cost/lifestyle choice) and as such draws from a wide political spectrum and diametric views. Because somebody disagrees with your point of view though shouldn't make you feel put upon, it is just a different perspective to yours. For the record, these are my views.

 

[VW Cali]

Can I criticise it? Please Sir? Can I? Or are we in a society were we can't criticise someone, unless they're British?

You can criticise anything.

But your rhetorical posturing deliberately tries to divert attention from the simple point made by Tom.

Which was that personal dislike, or moral aversion, or repugnance, does not resolve problems unless there is a recourse to rules or law.

Being evasive on this point, resorting to what are, and I shall say it as politely as I can, does not help your own argument as such rrsoonses are usually the preserve of those who have lost the point.

Even your rhetorical question is very peculiarly framed?

Who has, in any way, suggested that only the British can be criticised?

I am afraid you make it up Sir, and such misplaced exaggeration and false patriotism in lieu of analysis is to my country's loss.

Not a single comment on any of the examples given by either Tom or myself, or sticking to the point.

 

[VW Cali]

Careful now, don't go calling anyone smart arse (especially yourself) it could be misconstrued

No, he was just trying to wiggle out of a mistake by diverting atttention from it, and defending his forum friends use of smart arse descriptions applied to others.

If you understand why he resorted to this, cut him some slack, even though he unwittingly tried his best to apply it to himself.

 

[Ethel's dad]

No, he was just trying to wiggle out of a mistake by diverting atttention from it, and defending his forum friends use of smart arse descriptions applied to others.

If you understand why he resorted to this, cut him some slack, even though he unwittingly tried his best to apply it to himself.

I was taking the p***

 

[VW Cali]

I was taking the p***

Hahaha, and I fell for it!

I am not the sharpest guy going around as you can tell!

Good one though....made me laugh!

 

[aileron346]

Interesting discussion. I do like comment a few posts back about the NHS. Since the whole Brexit debate it had become fashionable to link the ills of the NHS to foreigners. How convenient for the government! And, surely, how ridiculous... have a look at an Emergency Dept on a Friday or Saturday evening in your average UK city. You may then come to the conclusion that far from being the problem for the NHS, many immigrants to the UK work very hard for the NHS.
Proper discussion of how supportive a benefits system should be is worthwhile - but I too wonder, in the current xenophobic climate, if it was entirely accidental that the subject of this newspaper report was not British.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[AlanH99]

I am not sure where in this thread I have labelled any poster as a racist, but as you have claimed it, I expect you will either support your claim with evidence, explain how I have misinterpreted your comment or withdraw the claim and apologise.

I took this comment of yours as implying that people who complained about Arnold were racist.

"The main problems people seem to have with his (sic) is that he is:
1. a migrant;
2. French;
3. entitled to housing benefits and claiming them;
and possibly, 4. Black."

Saying people's main problems with Arnold include his nationality and possibly, colour, sounds like accusing them of racism to me.

 

[GrannyJen]

At the end of the day I know nothing about Arnold except the few selected facts some elements of the media have printed about him, and no doubt the carefully selected responses they have published as coming from him.

I can feel angry at any exploitation of our welfare system, it is not me being angry at the individual and it is not me but the media who have chosen to print large headlines about a non-white, foreign national with a large family receiving the sort of benefit payments that for many would be a salary hard worked for but woefully out of reach.

The fact that I am angry should not paint me as a racist and I do not see racism expressed here, although yes I do see what often is a morally bankrupt media deliberately focussing on a non-white individual.

However my anger is not with the individual. My anger is the way our benefit system, including the NHS, is used as a political football. The system is in a mess but every time someone tries to say that so the screams of "privatisation, hammering "the working man", "Attack on the poor" etc becomes a clamour of indignation.

Aneurin Bevan when he implemented the NHS was not above compromise to effect social change, it was he after all who "Filled their mouths with gold" to obtain Consultants to work within the NHS. He saw that the compromise would in future have to be challenged, as did much of the original ambitions of the NHS, but just getting the service implemented was the ideal above all others.

However we are not allowed to change, to move with the times, to recognise new demands. Instead we just lumber our creaking welfare institutions with ever more crowd-pleasing but unaffordable demands.

My Son had a radical amputaion of an index finger last week but he cannot even get a GP. All lists are closed due to a shortage of Doctors yet every week, according to one practice in the area, "No Shows" run as high as 30%. However we cannot punish the "no-shows", we cannot declare war on the abusive drunks who fill our A&E, We cannot tackle our core benefit issues because we do not attack parliament, we just sneer at the next poor sod who's turn it is to fill a red-top headline.

The same Aneurin Bevan wrote in his book "in place of fear" that the function of parliament is to be an instrument of social change yet we see anything but. Until the population of GB gets off it's arse and starts to attack parliament directly instead of ruminating with sick joyfulness over the headlines postulated by Murdoch and co. we will continue to fail the truly poorer off in our society and continue to support a system of democracy that has woefully failed them.

End of rant.

 

[GrannyJen]

oh,

and if anyone wants to take this issue up with their MP, it's worth getting a bit of background info on how your MP votes, or even if he/she actually turns up for work,

This site is excellent

 

[Amarillo]

Saying people's main problems with Arnold include his nationality and possibly, colour, sounds like accusing them of racism to me.

So it is you who misunderstood - not me.

The French are a nation, not a race.

The other remark only raised a possibility of racism, so not an accusation. Indeed, the whole comment was phrased as a possibility rather than a accusation, "The main problems people seem to have with [him]".

 

[kave]

Intereresting comments. Meanwhile our Swedish morning newspapers ( who would never publish anything like this article) reports on polish workers beeing attacked by brits after the brexit vote. Poland have now polish police working the streets in uk to protect the workers from being harmed !?
Even swedish students have been harrassed with written comments like: go home etc.
The problem with press like this is that some individuals will take it the wrong way.
I am quite sure if the main population knew how much money a problem child costs the uk taxpayers they would be really angry. I have some insights in sweden, one 13 year old can cost the taxpayers 1000£ a day and more if they are really in to trouble.

 

[aileron346]

(Snipped)

My Son had a radical amputaion of an index finger last week but he cannot even get a GP. All lists are closed due to a shortage of Doctors yet every week, according to one practice in the area, "No Shows" run as high as 30%. However we cannot punish the "no-shows"

End of rant.

Though GJ, my practice does remove people who no-show on three occasions. And the primary healthcare community seem to be saying that chronic underfunding of GP/CommunityCare has caused an unsustainable workload along with (...tenuous link to the tabloid issue...) constant attacks from the press, led by the Mail. So I def agree, we should be lobbying parliament about those issues.

 

[GrannyJen]

Though GJ, my practice does remove people who no-show on three occasions. And the primary healthcare community seem to be saying that chronic underfunding of GP/CommunityCare has caused an unsustainable workload along with (...tenuous link to the tabloid issue...) constant attacks from the press, led by the Mail. So I def agree, we should be lobbying parliament about those issues.

Hence my disgust with the elevation of the NHS into political football status.

It should be taken out of politics. A continuous review process that keeps the NHS relevant to todays society and funded to deal with todays reality.

I know of no where else in the world that would allow a patient to simply not turn up without sanction. My private provider would simply charge me for the appointment. I know of nowhere else in the world that would provide hugely expensive ambulance crews and ambulances to be parked up to tender first aid on those who go out with no other intention than to do harm to themselves by excessive alcohol consumption.

There is chronic underfunding, but we can only pay so much, we can only tax so much, to where the point must be reached to say that those who abuse must pay. How many people who volubly complain do so to their own MP's? Turn the heat up on them, not on the taxpayer, not on my Son who has done nothing to be denied even access to a GP following radical surgery to his hands.

 

[AlanH99]

So it is you who misunderstood - not me.

The French are a nation, not a race.

The other remark only raised a possibility of racism, so not an accusation. Indeed, the whole comment was phrased as a possibility rather than a accusation, "The main problems people seem to have with [him]".

So, you are not saying people have problems with Arnold because he is a migrant, French and/or possibly black.
Only that people seem to possibly have problems with Arnold being a migrant, French and/or possibly black.

Are you sure?