Has anyone got any guidelines for buying a budget California?

[matrovolkswagen]

I've had plenty of converted transporters in the past, with most being built by myself. Now I think it has come to the time where I finally get a Cali. My budget would be whatever my T6.1 sales for which would be low-mid 30s.
Having a look around it does look like I could get a 2010-2015 with 80-100k on the clock. I could squeeze the budget a bit more, but I'd only really do that if I could get a T6 instead of a T5.1 which would be very unlikely.

I do know a little bit about them as my brother has a T6 Ocean, but as it's more than likely a T5.1 I'll be getting it would be nice to know the differences with the interior or Cali specific external features. I wouldn't be getting a Beach either as I do need a full camper.

My main worry at the moment is that I am in the CFCA engine years. I'm not too worried about power, but the 140s seems a bit uncommon. So my questions about these would be which year onwards would i be better going for? 2013 onwards, 2014 onwards etc? Are all the 180s CFCA, or is that how you can tell?

Please feel free to post any other advice that is relevant.

 

[2into1]

All the 180hp are cfca. Glad you are aware of the issue so you can weigh up the risks.
Camping wise, nothing much changed until the kitchen worktop was split into 2 (3 if inc the fridge) late 2017.
Generally the drive got progressively slightly better / smoother with each revision.
They are all much the same on a rainy day on a muddy field.

 

[matrovolkswagen]

Thanks for that. I did read somewhere that the problem years were 2010 and 2011, so was trying to work out how to tell. If all 180s from all years are prone to problems, then I may consider trying to budget out of it or hang on for a 140. I could buy anytime, but I'm not in a rush as it's not needed till next Easter.

Thanks for the info on the interior. All I could see that had changed was the little object slots above fridge. The main differences I saw where in the cab area where a T6 did have a big aesthetic upgrade.

Drivewise I think my T5 was probably the nicest one out of them all which may sound strange. If memory serves me right i think it had a chunkier steering wheel which I prefered.

 

[WelshGas]

I've had plenty of converted transporters in the past, with most being built by myself. Now I think it has come to the time where I finally get a Cali. My budget would be whatever my T6.1 sales for which would be low-mid 30s.
Having a look around it does look like I could get a 2010-2015 with 80-100k on the clock. I could squeeze the budget a bit more, but I'd only really do that if I could get a T6 instead of a T5.1 which would be very unlikely.

I do know a little bit about them as my brother has a T6 Ocean, but as it's more than likely a T5.1 I'll be getting it would be nice to know the differences with the interior or Cali specific external features. I wouldn't be getting a Beach either as I do need a full camper.

My main worry at the moment is that I am in the CFCA engine years. I'm not too worried about power, but the 140s seems a bit uncommon. So my questions about these would be which year onwards would i be better going for? 2013 onwards, 2014 onwards etc? Are all the 180s CFCA, or is that how you can tell?

Please feel free to post any other advice that is relevant.

Autumn/Winter would be the best time to buy 2nd hand, more on the market and prices tend to soften.
Camping facilities are the same between T5.1/6 just fabric and colors vary everything else is basically the same. As mentioned the kitchen glass covers changed from 2 to 3 piece on the later T6s.
The T5.1 is Euro5 the T6 Euro6 and the Euro5 attracts charges in the numerous LEZ zones springing up in the UK and Europe.
Euro6 has Adblue.
T5.1 came with H7 headlights or Zenon and T6 with H7 or LED.
The 140 can be remapped for increased torque and power.
As far as the T5.1 T6 199/204 these are all biturbo engines and there are reports of some with excessive oil consumption on this and the T6 forum.
Low milage 180 from 2010/2011 should be avoided they have a manufacturing problem recognised by VW , the others are not recognised by VW as having a problem but their are Internet theoris relating to the ones that are problematic.
My 180 is just passing 130,000 miles with 0mls oil consumption between annual oil changes.

My advice, look for a T6 this Autumn/Winter.

 

[matrovolkswagen]

Autumn/Winter would be the best time to buy 2nd hand, more on the market and prices tend to soften.
Camping facilities are the same between T5.1/6 just fabric and colors vary everything else is basically the same. As mentioned the kitchen glass covers changed from 2 to 3 piece on the later T6s.
The T5.1 is Euro5 the T6 Euro6 and the Euro5 attracts charges in the numerous LEZ zones springing up in the UK and Europe.
Euro6 has Adblue.
T5.1 came with H7 headlights or Zenon and T6 with H7 or LED.
The 140 can be remapped for increased torque and power.
As far as the T5.1 T6 199/204 these are all biturbo engines and there are reports of some with excessive oil consumption on this and the T6 forum.
Low milage 180 from 2010/2011 should be avoided they have a manufacturing problem recognised by VW , the others are not recognised by VW as having a problem but their are Internet theoris relating to the ones that are problematic.
My 180 is just passing 130,000 miles with 0mls oil consumption between annual oil changes.

My advice, look for a T6 this Autumn/Winter.

Thanks for the comprehensive info.

Even though I am just outside the M25 I rarely drive into it, so luckily for me it isn't really an issue. Having said that I should consider really think about the T6 just for future proofing. I am sure we haven't seen the last of the Emission zones especially when they generate so much money. I just have a feeling that one my be just out of budget, but we'll have to see what happens when the weather turns.

I did think the problem years were 2010/11, so thanks for clarifying. I'll rule them out as well and probably the 2012 just in case it was sitting on a forecourt for a while.
Glad you were one of the lucky ones, I have seen a couple of horror stories where people are getting 7K bills for new engines.

 

[reserves]

if you’re on a budget, nothing with the T5 (2004-2009) they have solid engines, though the experience is a little more rough / noisy than later engines

Personally I’ve always avoided the T5.1 in 180bhp of any year

 

[matrovolkswagen]

if you’re on a budget, nothing with the T5 (2004-2009) they have solid engines, though the experience is a little more rough / noisy than later engines

Personally I’ve always avoided the T5.1 in 180bhp of any year

I did take a look at the T5s but a lot seem a little tired now. I haven't ruled them out though.

 

[Joncali2023!!]

My advice would be …. Don’t buy one save your money

 

[larrylamb]

As Welshgas said, wait until late autumn/winter for better prices. Seen a higher mileage (115k i think) T6 Ocean for about 38K recently, might get it cheaper?? Mileage wouldn't bother me with a service history as long as everything else was in good order.

 

[bvddobb]

A budget California? Where do they sell those???

It's the same everywhere...: steer away from the first two years of any motor type (or laptop, OS version, mobile phone...) and you avoid a lot of issues. E.g, we have had the 5 cylinder 2.5 T5 for 15 years/255.000 km now, never a motor issue apart from normal wear/maintenance. The first two years of that motor are notorious for their issues. It's the same for the other types, roughly.

 

[matrovolkswagen]

My advice would be …. Don’t buy one save your money

Why?

As Welshgas said, wait until late autumn/winter for better prices. Seen a higher mileage (115k i think) T6 Ocean for about 38K recently, might get it cheaper?? Mileage wouldn't bother me with a service history as long as everything else was in good order.

I think if i could get a sub 100K miles for less than 38K I probably would spend the extra money on a T6. It's nice to see that if I wait a while it could be possible. As I mentioned earlier, I'm in no rush.

I do also think that there may be a drop in prices when the new Transporter is announced and images of the new Multivan California are released. I'm sure some people will start selling to finance these.

 

[matrovolkswagen]

A budget California? Where do they sell those???

It's the same everywhere...: steer away from the first two years of any motor type (or laptop, OS version, mobile phone...) and you avoid a lot of issues. E.g, we have had the 5 cylinder 2.5 T5 for 15 years/255.000 km now, never a motor issue apart from normal wear/maintenance. The first two years of that motor are notorious for their issues. It's the same for the other types, roughly.

Ha, true, I suppose there isn't a such a thing as a budget California.

I starting to think I may steer clear off the 180s altogether. Even if the later ones 'might' be ok, I think I'd have a fight on my hands trying to claim anything on a third party warranty that I'd get, as they would say it was a known fault.

 

[Joncali2023!!]

Why?

I think if i could get a sub 100K miles for less than 38K I probably would spend the extra money on a T6. It's nice to see that if I wait a while it could be possible. As I mentioned earlier, I'm in no rush.

I do also think that there may be a drop in prices when the new Transporter is announced and images of the new Multivan California are released. I'm sure some people will start selling to finance these.

Yes they are a dream vehicle, but they have nothing but Issues to be honest.
I know a guy who bought a used , and they had 18 issues they had to sort out in the first 6 months.
I bought one new, and I have noticed 4 issues in three weeks. (Big issues) but luckily mines under warranty.

 

[reserves]

I do also think that there may be a drop in prices when the new Transporter is announced and images of the new Multivan California are released. I'm sure some people will start selling to finance these.

People have been waiting for California prices to drop for years.

These are different markets.

The main reason for used California prices being what they are is the cost of replacements. In 2010 a new California was £40k, in 2023 its £75k.

Not many people swapping their £30k vans for a £75k replacement.

 

[matrovolkswagen]

People have been waiting for California prices to drop for years.

These are different markets.

The main reason for used California prices being what they are is the cost of replacements. In 2010 a new California was £40k, in 2023 its £75k.

Not many people swapping their £30k vans for a £75k replacement.

I'm on the fence about this. I know a lot of California owners do hold onto their vans a lot longer than a Transporter Conversion, but I think quite a few may trade up sometime in the next few years. Especially as there are currently many factors at play. I agree they may not jump from a 30K van to a 75K one, but they may trade up to a newer model say a T5.1 to a T6.

First you have emission zones. With the London ULEZ ploughing through like a steam train I can see many other cities jumping on the bandwagon as it is a massive cash cow. This'll leave most city dwelling T5 and 5.1 owners either selling or trading up.

Some people do like new stuff. I'm already seeing a few ID Buzzes in the scene, at festivals etc. I'll think you'll see even more when they release the California version.
This did pretty much happen when the T5 was released and a lot of people sold their T4 Westies. I could imagine a few might px their T6.1s for it.

Don't get me wrong, I personally think will still hold their money. I was on more about natural depreciation as newer models come out, mileages go up, condition deteriorates etc.

Being in the early fifties I'm personally thinking that if I do go down the California route, I have 2 campers left in me. One I am looking to purchase now and probably a hybrid as my last one. Between the pair of them they should last me till I stop driving.
I think it'll be 1-2 years before we see or hear about the new Transporter, and a year after that for the Cali. It's unlikely I'd get the Hybrid new, so would be about 7 years before prices have dropped enough to warrant trading up. I've pretty much ruled out the ID Buzz as I live in a flat, and the Multivan would be too small for me.

 

[B J G]

A factor to consider

With more restrictions Internationally plus UK on pre Euro6 diesels the pre T6 models will be cheaper to buy (diesel cars that are in this category are being reported as having little demand in many areas with as much as 44% drop in value).
UK permits entry with a financial charge, as far as I can ascertain EU ones just don't permit access into restricted zones.

T6's will hold their value better due this aspect.

There could be a few T5 or T5.1's in the London area coming onto the market due to the £12.50 charge everytime they move within the extended ULEZ Zone.

It's not possible to get the Euro spec upgraded.

Politics has now entered this in the run up to the next election so no certainty as to what will actually be the case in a few months in the UK.

 

[amdby]

I wish I'd known what you guys know before I bought my 2012 180 bhp biturbo, which has just blown it's turbo, eaten all the oil and seized the 75k miles engine. Threatening to sue VW for continuing to sell vehicles with a well- documented fault and having no recall.

 

[Californication69]

I wish I'd known what you guys know before I bought my 2012 180 bhp biturbo, which has just blown it's turbo, eaten all the oil and seized the 75k miles engine. Threatening to sue VW for continuing to sell vehicles with a well- documented fault and having no recall.

I know somebody else 180 biturbo has bit the egr blades and eaten all the oil. £9K replacement engine. It’s so naughty of VW to just let you pay all of that. Just wrong. But I guess a 10 year old motor is 10 years old.

 

[Dazshep]

I've had plenty of converted transporters in the past, with most being built by myself. Now I think it has come to the time where I finally get a Cali. My budget would be whatever my T6.1 sales for which would be low-mid 30s.
Having a look around it does look like I could get a 2010-2015 with 80-100k on the clock. I could squeeze the budget a bit more, but I'd only really do that if I could get a T6 instead of a T5.1 which would be very unlikely.

I do know a little bit about them as my brother has a T6 Ocean, but as it's more than likely a T5.1 I'll be getting it would be nice to know the differences with the interior or Cali specific external features. I wouldn't be getting a Beach either as I do need a full camper.

My main worry at the moment is that I am in the CFCA engine years. I'm not too worried about power, but the 140s seems a bit uncommon. So my questions about these would be which year onwards would i be better going for? 2013 onwards, 2014 onwards etc? Are all the 180s CFCA, or is that how you can tell?

Please feel free to post any other advice that is relevant.

I have owned a late t5.1. 140 manual for the last 8 years and is now for sale on forum page. When it was bought it was the dogs nads and imo still is. The reason for selling is moving up in size.It has been fantastic experience. The camping section of the vans is basically the same with only minor tweaks.
With the new ULEZ rulings these vans do carry a charge, but the price difference between mine and a t6 12 months younger would leave you with about 800 visits into the zones before they would be equal. Moving around London in any vehicle or public transport isn’t cheap, so it is how you would use the van, every day drive or weekend camping warrior.

 

[Finbarandrubyvan]

I've had plenty of converted transporters in the past, with most being built by myself. Now I think it has come to the time where I finally get a Cali. My budget would be whatever my T6.1 sales for which would be low-mid 30s.
Having a look around it does look like I could get a 2010-2015 with 80-100k on the clock. I could squeeze the budget a bit more, but I'd only really do that if I could get a T6 instead of a T5.1 which would be very unlikely.

I do know a little bit about them as my brother has a T6 Ocean, but as it's more than likely a T5.1 I'll be getting it would be nice to know the differences with the interior or Cali specific external features. I wouldn't be getting a Beach either as I do need a full camper.

My main worry at the moment is that I am in the CFCA engine years. I'm not too worried about power, but the 140s seems a bit uncommon. So my questions about these would be which year onwards would i be better going for? 2013 onwards, 2014 onwards etc? Are all the 180s CFCA, or is that how you can tell?

Please feel free to post any other advice that is relevant.

I have had a 2009 California For the past 4 years. Nice vehicle but given the choice I would not buy another and certainly not an Ocean. There are too many expensive gizmos like power roof and power door closers to go wrong. And they do. I would prefer a conversion on the more basic Transporter base.

 

[Nik_campervan]

12months back bought a 2011 t5.1 140hp with 81k miles, only service stamps and bodywork rough, broken trim inside in usual areas. 31k paid knowing id be spending 3-5k in repairs to bring it back to life. All done diy at home but closer to 5k in parts spent over the year,
Clutch and dmf.
Service both diesel heaters.
Rear wheel bearings
Wheel spd sensor
4 x tyres
Droplinks & strut top bearings.
2x annual service
Water pump for sink.
New sink tap
Bellows patches, awning patches.
Awning rail trim end caps
Roof light
240v / water inlet fitting.
Towbar & electrics
1x wheelarch liner.
2x front door / arch rubbers.
Bodywork repairs.
reverse camera
Kenwood AA head unit
Dash chip repair
CV Boot
Lower balljoints
Lanogard underside
Full paint renovation / sanding/compound/polish
2x door lock modules
Probably forgot loads but now have a vehicle in trustworthy condition with enough character/scars that i dont need to be too precious when using it.
If you cant diy a cali of this age has potential to become a money pit due to labour costs.

 

[welcome to the hotel]

Autumn/Winter would be the best time to buy 2nd hand, more on the market and prices tend to soften.
Camping facilities are the same between T5.1/6 just fabric and colors vary everything else is basically the same. As mentioned the kitchen glass covers changed from 2 to 3 piece on the later T6s.
The T5.1 is Euro5 the T6 Euro6 and the Euro5 attracts charges in the numerous LEZ zones springing up in the UK and Europe.
Euro6 has Adblue.
T5.1 came with H7 headlights or Zenon and T6 with H7 or LED.
The 140 can be remapped for increased torque and power.
As far as the T5.1 T6 199/204 these are all biturbo engines and there are reports of some with excessive oil consumption on this and the T6 forum.
Low milage 180 from 2010/2011 should be avoided they have a manufacturing problem recognised by VW , the others are not recognised by VW as having a problem but their are Internet theoris relating to the ones that are problematic.
My 180 is just passing 130,000 miles with 0mls oil consumption between annual oil changes.

My advice, look for a T6 this Autumn/Winter.

Yikes… picking up a low mileage 2012 t5 180 tomorrow.
is the oil consumption a turbo issue or piston?

 

[WelshGas]

Yikes… picking up a low mileage 2012 t5 180 tomorrow.
is the oil consumption a turbo issue or piston?

Piston and cylinder bore.

 

[Perfectos]

Yikes… picking up a low mileage 2012 t5 180 tomorrow.
is the oil consumption a turbo issue or piston?

Search “Bi turbo EGR” to get started

note, not all 180s have issues and there are steps you can take to mitigate

 

[welcome to the hotel]

Oh it had a new egr fitted recently….silly money bill though.