Higher suspension worth it?

[briwy]

Seikel kit is sold with a certificate of no objection from VW which means that they will not affect the VW warranty but the seikel kit itself is excluded from VW warranty (Covered by seikel in any case).

I know because I called them a month back to make enquiries on a UK fitter.

VB air is the same Loz. Although the dealer tried to blame it for the excessive rear negative camber on ours until I gave them a poke in the eye with a sharp stick and explained the facts to them. Surprised me how little they know about the actual geometry of how the suspension works.

 

[WelshGas]

Forget the VB Air or Seikel Raised Suspension kit, just sell your California and get this.
Parked 2 pitches away on our Paris Campsite.
Asked the owner how he got on with the Parisian traffic? " No problem. They respect me at all times " , was his answer.

 

[bassbikemike]

I know this is an old post, but I have been trawling around (here and elsewhere) and am still lacking the answer I need...

Our 2006 Cali 4Motion SE, which we have owned for about 15 months, sits very low at the back end... I would like to raise it, partly for aesthetics, but more importantly for slightly better ground clearance, as I/we wild camp in Scotland and use it to access the ski slopes up there too; being so low at the rear is a bit of a handicap. Being a little higher at the back would also de-risk me clouting my head on the corners where the tailgate metal wraps around the top of the light cluster...

So, the unladen ride height (arch to wheel centre) is 445mm at the front but just 405mm at the rear. The original owner fitted Bilstein B6 shock absorbers to it, so the ride and handling are great for such a tall and heavy vehicle. I notice also in the paperwork, that both rear springs were replaced (not by VW), just over 3 years ago... I've noticed that T5 4 Motion Calis do tend to sag a bit at the rear end, but the T6s seem to have been rectified... My Cali is about as bad as I've seen though. Perhaps the replacement springs used, were not OEM/correct height for the Cali. Can anyone else with a T5 Cali 4Motion SE (not 5.1 ideally, as I want as close a comparison as possible) verify the unladen rear ride height of their vans please?

Options I'm considering are:
1. Just replace with standard OEM parts (if it seems the springs I have are too short - no way of finding this out though I think...?) I suspect there will still be some front-rear height imbalance though, even if it is reduced.
2. Replace with T32 spec heavy duty springs - this will keep the rear end higher I expect, but I'm concerned it will make the ride too harsh and tiresome over poor surfaces.
3. Replace with standard duty, but longer springs - does anyone know of any available that will retrofit please?
4. Replace with stock T6 rear Cali springs... are these actually longer than on the T5? Presumably these will retrofit into the T5...?

If anyone can help with this, I would be hugely grateful. Sadly I have had a few bigish bills recently with the van, so in the interests of my wallet and sanity, I'd like to get this right in one go!

 

[Loz]

There are 7 different grades of springs so you might be fine with the stock T32s.
I went for the seikel HD suspension but it’s not as cheap as a couple of T32 springs as most lower their vans you could pick some up cheap.

 

[bassbikemike]

There are 7 different grades of springs .

Wow... I didn't realise that! Just curious as to where you found that out? Would that be 7 grades of OEM spec springs, to allow different levels of utility for the panel van, or are you including aftermarket variations too?

I haven't tried asking my local VW Van Centre... experience tells me they are often pretty cagey about giving out parts info on anything away from standard-fit...

 

[Loz]

Here is a photo of a screenshot I came across with the vw part codes for the different springs.
You might get better results with your question on the T6forum as loads of members are modding suspension and you might find a member with spring going cheap you could try.

 

[bassbikemike]

Thanks Loz. I'll follow this up

 

[WelshGas]

I know this is an old post, but I have been trawling around (here and elsewhere) and am still lacking the answer I need...

Our 2006 Cali 4Motion SE, which we have owned for about 15 months, sits very low at the back end... I would like to raise it, partly for aesthetics, but more importantly for slightly better ground clearance, as I/we wild camp in Scotland and use it to access the ski slopes up there too; being so low at the rear is a bit of a handicap. Being a little higher at the back would also de-risk me clouting my head on the corners where the tailgate metal wraps around the top of the light cluster...

So, the unladen ride height (arch to wheel centre) is 445mm at the front but just 405mm at the rear. The original owner fitted Bilstein B6 shock absorbers to it, so the ride and handling are great for such a tall and heavy vehicle. I notice also in the paperwork, that both rear springs were replaced (not by VW), just over 3 years ago... I've noticed that T5 4 Motion Calis do tend to sag a bit at the rear end, but the T6s seem to have been rectified... My Cali is about as bad as I've seen though. Perhaps the replacement springs used, were not OEM/correct height for the Cali. Can anyone else with a T5 Cali 4Motion SE (not 5.1 ideally, as I want as close a comparison as possible) verify the unladen rear ride height of their vans please?

Options I'm considering are:
1. Just replace with standard OEM parts (if it seems the springs I have are too short - no way of finding this out though I think...?) I suspect there will still be some front-rear height imbalance though, even if it is reduced.
2. Replace with T32 spec heavy duty springs - this will keep the rear end higher I expect, but I'm concerned it will make the ride too harsh and tiresome over poor surfaces.
3. Replace with standard duty, but longer springs - does anyone know of any available that will retrofit please?
4. Replace with stock T6 rear Cali springs... are these actually longer than on the T5? Presumably these will retrofit into the T5...?

If anyone can help with this, I would be hugely grateful. Sadly I have had a few bigish bills recently with the van, so in the interests of my wallet and sanity, I'd like to get this right in one go!

You do realise that the wheel centre to wheel arch height is greater on the front compared to the rear, by design. As detailed in the VW technical drawings for the Transporter.
If you raise the rear compared to the front your vehicle will, in effect, be nose down.

The reason for this is if fully loaded, and fitted with standard tyre sizes, the rear wheels can move upwards into the wheel arch/space, but if you are on full lock with the front wheels that would not be possible hence the grater wheel centre to wheel arch height at the front.

If you measure floor to sill in front of the rear wheel and behind the front wheel they should be the same.

The saggy rear is a myth, unless of course the springs and shocks are knackered.

https://bb-database.com/documents/1...2016.pdf/f1423f16-b6fd-4a8d-8e4f-c6e8821d973e

 

[Trebor]

I know this is an old post, but I have been trawling around (here and elsewhere) and am still lacking the answer I need...

Our 2006 Cali 4Motion SE, which we have owned for about 15 months, sits very low at the back end... I would like to raise it, partly for aesthetics, but more importantly for slightly better ground clearance, as I/we wild camp in Scotland and use it to access the ski slopes up there too; being so low at the rear is a bit of a handicap. Being a little higher at the back would also de-risk me clouting my head on the corners where the tailgate metal wraps around the top of the light cluster...

So, the unladen ride height (arch to wheel centre) is 445mm at the front but just 405mm at the rear. The original owner fitted Bilstein B6 shock absorbers to it, so the ride and handling are great for such a tall and heavy vehicle. I notice also in the paperwork, that both rear springs were replaced (not by VW), just over 3 years ago... I've noticed that T5 4 Motion Calis do tend to sag a bit at the rear end, but the T6s seem to have been rectified... My Cali is about as bad as I've seen though. Perhaps the replacement springs used, were not OEM/correct height for the Cali. Can anyone else with a T5 Cali 4Motion SE (not 5.1 ideally, as I want as close a comparison as possible) verify the unladen rear ride height of their vans please?

Options I'm considering are:
1. Just replace with standard OEM parts (if it seems the springs I have are too short - no way of finding this out though I think...?) I suspect there will still be some front-rear height imbalance though, even if it is reduced.
2. Replace with T32 spec heavy duty springs - this will keep the rear end higher I expect, but I'm concerned it will make the ride too harsh and tiresome over poor surfaces.
3. Replace with standard duty, but longer springs - does anyone know of any available that will retrofit please?
4. Replace with stock T6 rear Cali springs... are these actually longer than on the T5? Presumably these will retrofit into the T5...?

If anyone can help with this, I would be hugely grateful. Sadly I have had a few bigish bills recently with the van, so in the interests of my wallet and sanity, I'd like to get this right in one go!

Thanks Loz. I'll follow this up

Hi Mike I felt the same about my 2015 180 4 motion . About 6 months ago I had T 32 rear springs fitted . Transformed the handling . Not too harsh at all and probably raised rear by upto 1 in which it needed ! I’m towing a 1200 kg probably 700 kg loaded camping trailer to northern Norway for 2 months in Sept so am having Bilstein B6 rear shocks fitted as well in a couple of weeks . Hoping for even more improvement . Recommend T32 rear springs they improved my van with and without tow a lot .

 

[bassbikemike]

If you measure floor to sill in front of the rear wheel and behind the front wheel they should be the same.

https://bb-database.com/documents/1...2016.pdf/f1423f16-b6fd-4a8d-8e4f-c6e8821d973e

View attachment 36290

Some interesting points...! The "unladen" sill measurement on my van is indeed the same front and rear...

However, being 6'2", I am all too aware of the tailgate corners I refer to in my OP and when last at my local VW Van Centre I confirmed that the entire rear end of the T6 Panel Van is substantially higher than mine. I didn't measure anything, but I could comfortably walk under the tailgate without fear of knocking myself out. The unladen sill height must have been considerably higher at the rear. I suspect the technical drawings may depict the van laden, which is it's purpose in life... of course an unladen Cali is, in fact, substantially laden!! Anyway, I reckon it doesn't matter too much whether the van is slightly nose/tail up or down - more important is weight distribution in the van, causing said deflection. With a Cali, much of that weight is built in so we're stuck on that, plus the fact that the cargo space is behind the rear axle... not to mention 4 bikes on the VAG bike rack. I think perhaps that HD springs would keep all that weight at the back better in check and keep the van more level when (more) laden with touring paraphernalia.

The bb-database.com link you posted seems to be broken...? Unless it is a membership only platform that you have subscribed to, which may explain that?

 

[bassbikemike]

Hi Mike I felt the same about my 2015 180 4 motion . About 6 months ago I had T 32 rear springs fitted . Transformed the handling . Not too harsh at all and probably raised rear by upto 1 in which it needed ! I’m towing a 1200 kg probably 700 kg loaded camping trailer to northern Norway for 2 months in Sept so am having Bilstein B6 rear shocks fitted as well in a couple of weeks . Hoping for even more improvement . Recommend T32 rear springs they improved my van with and without tow a lot .

Good to know - thanks Trebor. I don't intend to tow with mine, though it does have a tow bar fitted. It sounds from what you're saying that you would recommend the T32 springs even for non-towing use?

Could you dig the part number for the springs out please, if you can?

I haven't experienced the Cali without the B6s, but it does handle very well as it is with them. You can certainly hustle along windy A and B roads quite nicely, without the van swaying around much at all.

 

[bassbikemike]

...I’m towing a 1200 kg probably 700 kg loaded camping trailer to northern Norway for 2 months in Sept... /QUOTE]

And I meant to wish you well for the Norway trip - sounds exciting!

 

[bassbikemike]

Here is a photo of a screenshot I came across with the vw part codes for the different springs.
You might get better results with your question on the T6forum as loads of members are modding suspension and you might find a member with spring going cheap you could try.View attachment 36285

This is quite a rabbit hole!!

Apparently there are 9 grades/ratings of springs, as I discovered on the substantial thread below!
https://www.t6forum.com/threads/back-heavy-and-poor-traction.804/page-4
As per your screenshot above these are variously inter-combined with the 1xx or 2xx code... Using the tool at http://vag-codes.info/ I have decoded the codes listed on the screenshot as follows:

1BA = Standard suspension/shock absorption
2MF = Standard suspension/shock absorption
1BB = Suspension/shock absorption for rough road design
1BH = Suspension/shock absorption, standard 2
1BJ = Uprated suspension/shock absorption front and rear
2MG = Uprated suspension/shock absorption front and rear
2MK = Heavy-duty rear suspension

0YA = Weight range 1 installation control only, no requirement forecast
0YB = Weight range 2 installation control only, no requirement forecast
0YC = Weight range 3 installation control only, no requirement forecast
0YD = Weight range 4 installation control only, no requirement forecast
0YE = Weight range 5 installation control only, no requirement forecast
0YF = Weight range 6 installation control only, no requirement forecast
0YG = Weight range 7 installation control only, no requirement forecast
0YH = Weight range 8 installation control only, no requirement forecast
0YJ = Weight range 9 installation control only, no requirement forecast

I'm still trying to figure out exactly what this means and use that to determine my spring choice

 

[Gavrobb]

It’s a long story - been through it already and there is another thread in here on it more recently. I’ve just put the most HD springs on ours and delighted with results. Have the old medium grade OE 4M springs going cheap - sound like they would be an improvement. Welcome to PM me directly to discuss the outcome and any way I can help. (I can’t find the link easily right now)

 

[WelshGas]

Some interesting points...! The "unladen" sill measurement on my van is indeed the same front and rear...

However, being 6'2", I am all too aware of the tailgate corners I refer to in my OP and when last at my local VW Van Centre I confirmed that the entire rear end of the T6 Panel Van is substantially higher than mine. I didn't measure anything, but I could comfortably walk under the tailgate without fear of knocking myself out. The unladen sill height must have been considerably higher at the rear. I suspect the technical drawings may depict the van laden, which is it's purpose in life... of course an unladen Cali is, in fact, substantially laden!! Anyway, I reckon it doesn't matter too much whether the van is slightly nose/tail up or down - more important is weight distribution in the van, causing said deflection. With a Cali, much of that weight is built in so we're stuck on that, plus the fact that the cargo space is behind the rear axle... not to mention 4 bikes on the VAG bike rack. I think perhaps that HD springs would keep all that weight at the back better in check and keep the van more level when (more) laden with touring paraphernalia.

The bb-database.com link you posted seems to be broken...? Unless it is a membership only platform that you have subscribed to, which may explain that?

The BB link can be temperamental unfortunately.
HD springs at the back might help when laden.

 

[Trebor]

This is quite a rabbit hole!!

Apparently there are 9 grades/ratings of springs, as I discovered on the substantial thread below!
https://www.t6forum.com/threads/back-heavy-and-poor-traction.804/page-4
As per your screenshot above these are variously inter-combined with the 1xx or 2xx code... Using the tool at http://vag-codes.info/ I have decoded the codes listed on the screenshot as follows:

1BA = Standard suspension/shock absorption
2MF = Standard suspension/shock absorption
1BB = Suspension/shock absorption for rough road design
1BH = Suspension/shock absorption, standard 2
1BJ = Uprated suspension/shock absorption front and rear
2MG = Uprated suspension/shock absorption front and rear
2MK = Heavy-duty rear suspension

0YA = Weight range 1 installation control only, no requirement forecast
0YB = Weight range 2 installation control only, no requirement forecast
0YC = Weight range 3 installation control only, no requirement forecast
0YD = Weight range 4 installation control only, no requirement forecast
0YE = Weight range 5 installation control only, no requirement forecast
0YF = Weight range 6 installation control only, no requirement forecast
0YG = Weight range 7 installation control only, no requirement forecast
0YH = Weight range 8 installation control only, no requirement forecast
0YJ = Weight range 9 installation control only, no requirement forecast

I'm still trying to figure out exactly what this means and use that to determine my spring choice

Hi Mike mine were fitted at Poole Breeze . They said they have take off newT32 springs when lowering new vans . I think they were 3 grey stripes from memory . They offered to fit them for £100 while I was having a service. Wish I’d done a long time ago . Also have bigger ARB as 4 motion .

 

[bassbikemike]

Hi Mike mine were fitted at Poole Breeze . They said they have take off newT32 springs when lowering new vans . I think they were 3 grey stripes from memory . They offered to fit them for £100 while I was having a service. Wish I’d done a long time ago . Also have bigger ARB as 4 motion .

That's interesting... the 3 grey strip springs are 1BB 0YC according to the screenshot earlier in the thread, so that's
1BB = Suspension/shock absorption for rough road design
0YC = Weight range 3 installation control only, no requirement forecast

So, tougher springs than the standard, but designed for lower payload than the standard 0YD Cali springs?? I can't fully understand why there are 2 sets of codes/variables on these springs...! @Loz I gather from the other forum that your Vali has Weight range 7 springs fitted as standard...? Were they a special order?

 

[bassbikemike]

That's interesting... the 3 grey strip springs are 1BB 0YC according to the screenshot earlier in the thread, so that's
1BB = Suspension/shock absorption for rough road design
0YC = Weight range 3 installation control only, no requirement forecast

So, tougher springs than the standard, but designed for lower payload than the standard 0YD Cali springs?? I can't fully understand why there are 2 sets of codes/variables on these springs...! @Loz I gather from the other forum that your Vali has Weight range 7 springs fitted as standard...? Were they a special order?

OK... so perhaps the 1BB springs are longer travel springs...? Did you have to change the shocks @Trebor? This might explain the higher ride height despite the 1 grade lower load rating...?? May be I'm getting somewhere and I too should go for some 1BB springs at the back......

 

[Skewif]

OK... so perhaps the 1BB springs are longer travel springs...? Did you have to change the shocks @Trebor? This might explain the higher ride height despite the 1 grade lower load rating...?? May be I'm getting somewhere and I too should go for some 1BB springs at the back......

1BB not longer travel just a stronger spring so uses std length shocks. Fitting 4 x grey (T32 4M) or 3 x grey (T32) with any half decent HD shocks will improve the ride and handling quite noticeably. Will get fair bit less roll and lift rear ~20mm. A cheap mod with great results.

 

[bassbikemike]

1BB not longer travel just a stronger spring so uses std length shocks. Fitting 4 x grey (T32 4M) or 3 x grey (T32) with any half decent HD shocks will improve the ride and handling quite noticeably. Will get fair bit less roll and lift rear ~20mm. A cheap mod with great results.

Thanks @Skewif appreciate that.

So, I have to ask... what's the difference between a 1BB spring and a 1BJ or a 2MG or even a 2MK...?? Can you answer that too?
1BB = Suspension/shock absorption for rough road design
1BJ = Uprated suspension/shock absorption front and rear
2MG = Uprated suspension/shock absorption front and rear
2MK = Heavy-duty rear suspension

... oh and does anyone have any idea what a "1BH = Suspension/shock absorption, standard 2" is?

Thanks for the recommendation re the T32 springs... Mine is a 4Motion, so that would be the 4 stripe version for me - interestingly I gather these are 1BB 0YDs... which is the same weight rating as the standard springs, but for "rough road design" - that's why I suspect that the 1BBs are in fact longer travel and that's where your extra 20mm comes from... Rough road design would suggest to me, not a stiffer, heavy duty spring, but one with longer travel and more capable of absorbing larger deflections you encounter on rough roads. Having a stiffer spring for rough roads would not make any sense. Like pretty much everyone else it seems, I am far from certain about all of this, but this explanation makes sense of the facts I can see so far.

One last concern regarding fitting stiffer springs (as some have), is compromising the torsional flex of the suspension setup, for travel over unsurfaced tracks/roughish ground, by making the rear end too rigid... if that makes sense? Does anyone with stiffer springs fitted have any feedback on that point/concern please? I think having a standard spring weight rating (with longer travel) and a very good shock absorber such as the Bilstein B6s I have fitted should give the best performance balance possible.

 

[Sandyvan]

Well worth it. They reduce body roll during cornering without adding any straight line stiffness. No brainier.

Just fit the -20mm sport line springs same effect and looks better. but £400...

 

[Skewif]

Thanks @Skewif appreciate that.

So, I have to ask... what's the difference between a 1BB spring and a 1BJ or a 2MG or even a 2MK...?? Can you answer that too?
1BB = Suspension/shock absorption for rough road design
1BJ = Uprated suspension/shock absorption front and rear
2MG = Uprated suspension/shock absorption front and rear
2MK = Heavy-duty rear suspension

... oh and does anyone have any idea what a "1BH = Suspension/shock absorption, standard 2" is?

Thanks for the recommendation re the T32 springs... Mine is a 4Motion, so that would be the 4 stripe version for me - interestingly I gather these are 1BB 0YDs... which is the same weight rating as the standard springs, but for "rough road design" - that's why I suspect that the 1BBs are in fact longer travel and that's where your extra 20mm comes from... Rough road design would suggest to me, not a stiffer, heavy duty spring, but one with longer travel and more capable of absorbing larger deflections you encounter on rough roads. Having a stiffer spring for rough roads would not make any sense. Like pretty much everyone else it seems, I am far from certain about all of this, but this explanation makes sense of the facts I can see so far.

One last concern regarding fitting stiffer springs (as some have), is compromising the torsional flex of the suspension setup, for travel over unsurfaced tracks/roughish ground, by making the rear end too rigid... if that makes sense? Does anyone with stiffer springs fitted have any feedback on that point/concern please? I think having a standard spring weight rating (with longer travel) and a very good shock absorber such as the Bilstein B6s I have fitted should give the best performance balance possible.

I don't know what the difference is between all the various options but somewhere on this forum there is a post with them in order of load/spring rating etc. As the Cali is at the heavier end there are only a few of those options that are relevant to load / lifting / handling improvements.

With regards to minimising head injuries the OEM 4x grey springs should give you ~20mm lift at the rear wheel and near double that at the rear of tailgate when open.

IMO. From experience driving a std Cali on rough road is very slow going. The weight combined with already compressed soft springs and serious under damping makes for a bouncy ride and causes the suspension to bottom out very easily. With harder springs, a small increase in ride height and much better dampers you can cover the same ground in half the time with far greater comfort as van weight so much better controlled.
The suspension travel is limited by the shocks not springs and all the OEM shocks have the same travel (I believe). The higher you make the body / suspension the less likely you will bottom out but the more likely to top out. The only longer travel shocks I know of are Seikel or some costly ones made by Koni.

I have even harder springs than the T32 fitted to mine (+55mm lift) and spend a lot of time driving off road. The rear is not too ridged and still has plenty of axle articulation going over large obstacles. I feel in every way the ride, comfort and handling is better than std both on and off road by going a bit firmer and way better damped.

Yes you can use std spring rate with good shocks, the ride and ability on and off rough road will be much better. Changing just the rear shocks from std to quality HD makes a day/night difference on a well used T5 Cali. But as you have B6 already you're about as good as you can get with std springs.

The advantage of also going for firmer springs is the handling improvements. Much less body roll and a greater stability on uneven roads at speed. Starts to feel more like driving a people carrier rather than an overloaded van.

Hope that is of some help.

Go up not down, get to more places not less.

 

[Gavrobb]

I think this is the post which best summarises the invaluable info from the conversation above. I took the advice and wouldn’t look back Mike. Delighted. I’ve also followed up on PM. Hope it helps. Thanks to the guys above.

https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/pedders-suspension.10117/page-3

 

[bassbikemike]

Just like to say a big thank you to everyone who has replied and helped with my questions on this, particularly, @Gavrobb @Skewif @Loz and @Trebor. The information has been enlightening and I now have a set of virtually brand new 4M T32 rear springs on order, which are being fitted locally next week (together with a set of OEM 204PS 340mm brakes... but that's another story!! My 174 was chipped to 195 by the previous owner, but the current brakes are shot and it sorely needs more stopping power). Got the parts from Customvanz as they mod a lot of brand new vans with delivery mileage only on them and sell the OEM parts on.

 

[bassbikemike]

Ehem... so I the parcel with springs taken off a T32, arrived today from Customvanz. They are being fitted to my Cali tomorrow by a local garage. However to my dismay, despite having asked for 4 stripe springs I have just realised I been sent 3 stripe springs, off a non-4M van... I wonder whether these will be an improvement....

Votes for whether I should go ahead please...?

If I don't then my rear mudflaps will be trailing all the way to Luxembourg and France when we pile off there on Sunday... I'd so like to get them fitted really, but not if it's going to be a waste of time and money and no significant improvement over the standard Cali 4M springs... I do have Bilstein B6 shocks, so if the springs are a little softer than the 4M version, may be the extra 4M weight will be kept in check by them anyway. Am I missing anything or does anyone have any other thoughts ...@Skewif, @Gavrobb, @Loz, @Trebor (apologies for tagging you all but I need to make a decision before 1st thing tomorrow when the Cali is due in the garage)