How do I check if leisure batteries are charging the vehicle battery?

[nigpdreadingfc]

I have a Cali Ocean T6.1 MY20 with solar and want to find out if, when the leisure batteries reach 80% charge, that the vehicle battery is then trickle charged.

Doing lots of research on forums etc, I have learned that ....... it depends. It depends on how and when my particular vehicle was wired, so I'd like to find out for myself.

However, knowing the "what" to do, is the easy part, I think. It's the "how", that I would like some help with, please.

My initial thought is to let the leisure batteries charge up to 80% on solar (the Victron app would show the batteries on float, I would guess??) and then put a multimeter on the vehicle battery to see if it's receiving any charge.

I will then repeat the above when on EHU, again with the leisure batteries charged to 80%.

Is it as straightforward as that? Is there anything else I should do, to ensure I get a definitive answer?

Thanks in advance for your help

 

[Shadrack]

I’m not 100% with you having a 6.1 but on my 6 the solar won’t charge the engine battery from the Victron unless you have made a connection to the engine battery from the Victron.
A note of caution tho. You just cant take another wire to the engine battery from the same connection on the Victron.
There is a charger on board that will charge both engine and leisure when on EHU.

 

[WelshGas]

I have a Cali Ocean T6.1 MY20 with solar and want to find out if, when the leisure batteries reach 80% charge, that the vehicle battery is then trickle charged.

Doing lots of research on forums etc, I have learned that ....... it depends. It depends on how and when my particular vehicle was wired, so I'd like to find out for myself.

However, knowing the "what" to do, is the easy part, I think. It's the "how", that I would like some help with, please.

My initial thought is to let the leisure batteries charge up to 80% on solar (the Victron app would show the batteries on float, I would guess??) and then put a multimeter on the vehicle battery to see if it's receiving any charge.

I will then repeat the above when on EHU, again with the leisure batteries charged to 80%.

Is it as straightforward as that? Is there anything else I should do, to ensure I get a definitive answer?

Thanks in advance for your help
View attachment 125772

Measure the engine battery voltage first, not on EHU or Solar eg: at night/Solar disconnected/Solar panel covered.
Otherwise you are correct.

 

[nigpdreadingfc]

Measure the engine battery voltage first, not on EHU or Solar eg: at night/Solar disconnected/Solar panel covered.
Otherwise you are correct.

thanks buddy, much appreciated

 

[nigpdreadingfc]

Measure the engine battery voltage first, not on EHU or Solar eg: at night/Solar disconnected/Solar panel covered.
Otherwise you are correct.

I carried out some tests yesterday to see if the vehicle battery would be trickle charged when the leisure batteries reached 80%.
I'm no auto electrician, so I hope I did it correctly and that my conclusion is sound

1st test
Start voltage (no EHU, solar covered up, on float, 0W) = 12.77v
Solar uncovered, vehicle battery went up to 12.96v

2nd test
No EHU, solar covered, headlights and spot lights on for 3 minutes
Vehicle battery dropped from 12.7v to 12.36v
Solar uncovered (still on float) 6W-10W (bit overcast!!)
Vehicle battery increased to 12.93v

The big question is, is this conclusive that the leisure battery is being trickle charged?
If not, is there anything else I can do to prove it one way or another?
TIA for your help

 

[WelshGas]

I carried out some tests yesterday to see if the vehicle battery would be trickle charged when the leisure batteries reached 80%.
I'm no auto electrician, so I hope I did it correctly and that my conclusion is sound

1st test
Start voltage (no EHU, solar covered up, on float, 0W) = 12.77v
Solar uncovered, vehicle battery went up to 12.96v

2nd test
No EHU, solar covered, headlights and spot lights on for 3 minutes
Vehicle battery dropped from 12.7v to 12.36v
Solar uncovered (still on float) 6W-10W (bit overcast!!)
Vehicle battery increased to 12.93v

The big question is, is this conclusive that the leisure battery is being trickle charged?
If not, is there anything else I can do to prove it one way or another?
TIA for your help

I would take that as proof that the engine battery is receiving a trickle charge.

 

[nigpdreadingfc]

I would take that as proof that the engine battery is receiving a trickle charge.

Thanks for the confirmation, very much appreciated.

I also found out during my testing, that all the 12v sockets in my Cali, run off the leisure batteries, as registered on the Victron app load output when I charged up my iphone from each socket in turn.
This may be old news, but new news to me, as I had read somewhere that everything in front of the B pillar came off the vehicle battery.

 

[secret lemonade drinker]

I would use a clamp on ammeter around the positive of the vehicle battery, this will show either a discharge from or a charge to the battery under any of your test conditions

 

[nigpdreadingfc]

I would use a clamp on ammeter around the positive of the vehicle battery, this will show either a discharge from or a charge to the battery under any of your test conditions

Excuse my ignorance, but would looking at the amps show anything different to what I've seen already?

 

[secret lemonade drinker]

Excuse my ignorance, but would looking at the amps show anything different to what I've seen already?

12.3v at rest on a lead acid battery might be indicative of a cell being knackered, Vehicle batteries when charged by the alternator charge at approx 14.4v and a good battery when fully charged should be 13.5v to 12.8v unless there is something constantly draining it, a split charge system usually switches over to the leisure battery when the vehicle battery reaches 12.8 ish v. Some split charges will work the other way when on EHU or Solar, charging the leisure battery bank first and then charging the vehicle battery, is your vehicle battery holding charge? is it 12.3v at rest or does it go up and stay up after a charge has been applied? The ammeter gives a good quick indication of current flow and direction without any maths involved, charge is current not voltage. Leisure Batteries are charged and discharged differently to cold cranking vehicle batteries and the voltages are not the same for each type of battery.

 

[RockinNRollin]

I would be delighted to be corrected, but I was fairly certain the trickle charge to the vehicle battery is purely from the EHU (and also does not have an 80% cap either on the leisure batteries as they'll charge fully on EHU, the 80% is to do with when being charged from the alternator I think?).

Charge voltage on an AGM needs to be at least 13.something volts (13.5?) I thought? You'll only get that if there's a separate and dedicated feed from a controller. The controller can't distinguish from different batteries that are effectively "downstream" of the leisure batteries.

12.9v is a well charged battery's rest voltage - I think the OP has just that and the solar isn't doing anything. Roger does sell a controller with a separate feed to charge the vehicle battery, but that's a totally different setup.

Happy to be corrected on any of this . . .

 

[WelshGas]

I would be delighted to be corrected, but I was fairly certain the trickle charge to the vehicle battery is purely from the EHU (and also does not have an 80% cap either on the leisure batteries as they'll charge fully on EHU, the 80% is to do with when being charged from the alternator I think?).

Charge voltage on an AGM needs to be at least 13.something volts (13.5?) I thought? You'll only get that if there's a separate and dedicated feed from a controller. The controller can't distinguish from different batteries that are effectively "downstream" of the leisure batteries.

12.9v is a well charged battery's rest voltage - I think the OP has just that and the solar isn't doing anything. Roger does sell a controller with a separate feed to charge the vehicle battery, but that's a totally different setup.

Happy to be corrected on any of this . . .

I’ve proven to my satisfaction that I get a trickle charge to the engine battery when on EHU and when on just Solar. I do not have a direct connection from Solar MPPT to the engine battery.

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

I have a Cali Ocean T6.1 MY20 with solar and want to find out if, when the leisure batteries reach 80% charge, that the vehicle battery is then trickle charged.

Doing lots of research on forums etc, I have learned that ....... it depends. It depends on how and when my particular vehicle was wired, so I'd like to find out for myself.

However, knowing the "what" to do, is the easy part, I think. It's the "how", that I would like some help with, please.

My initial thought is to let the leisure batteries charge up to 80% on solar (the Victron app would show the batteries on float, I would guess??) and then put a multimeter on the vehicle battery to see if it's receiving any charge.

I will then repeat the above when on EHU, again with the leisure batteries charged to 80%.

Is it as straightforward as that? Is there anything else I should do, to ensure I get a definitive answer?

Thanks in advance for your help
View attachment 125772

Not exactly an answer to your question, but my solar was installed by Roger D. He ran a wire to a relay under the passenger seat to provide starter battery charging. Epever charge controller.

 

[RockinNRollin]

I’ve proven to my satisfaction that I get a trickle charge to the engine battery when on EHU and when on just Solar. I do not have a direct connection from Solar MPPT to the engine battery.

I will give this a test myself when I get a chance. I think I can test by wiring up a multimeter to the engine battery, deactivate the charge output from the MPPT via the Victron app, see what happens to the voltage on the vehicle battery, then reactivate the charge output, again monitoring change.

Edit: while I'll still do the above, doesn't a positive result from that test suggest the vehicle battery is somehow connected directly to the leisure batteries, in which case a flattened leisure battery would have the opposite effect, i.e. draw current from the vehicle battery?

 

[WelshGas]

I will give this a test myself when I get a chance. I think I can test by wiring up a multimeter to the engine battery, deactivate the charge output from the MPPT via the Victron app, see what happens to the voltage on the vehicle battery, then reactivate the charge output, again monitoring change.

Edit: while I'll still do the above, doesn't a positive result from that test suggest the vehicle battery is somehow connected directly to the leisure batteries, in which case a flattened leisure battery would have the opposite effect, i.e. draw current from the vehicle battery?

No idea. VW says it can’t happen but it is an unintended quirk of the wiring/ electronics on the T5.1/6.

 

[dspuk]

I’m a little late to this party but I asked myself the same a while ago after getting a starter flat and wanting to use any “spare” solar to stop it happening again. I had the sturdy Victron unit that does not trickle to the starter. After chatting to Roger at Solar he basically said it can but the MPPT rules for it doing so are so fractional it’s not worth the hassle.

Never the less, I changed the unit to a Epever one and sent a wire to the relay and sat back to bask in my starter charging glory.

It was not to be. Roger was right. Technically, yes, it does. Practically the rules for it kicking in are so tight that there is not enough time for it to charge as much as you would like.

As many above say, on EHU it does, so, for most Calis, happy days.

Pretty sure (let’s say 95%) charging the leisures with solar on their own to full does not, unless on EHU, push anything back to the starter. You need the wire from the MPPT unit to the under seat relay.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

I’m a little late to this party but I asked myself the same a while ago after getting a starter flat and wanting to use any “spare” solar to stop it happening again. I had the sturdy Victron unit that does not trickle to the starter. After chatting to Roger at Solar he basically said it can but the MPPT rules for it doing so are so fractional it’s not worth the hassle.

Never the less, I changed the unit to a Epever one and sent a wire to the relay and sat back to bask in my starter charging glory.

It was not to be. Roger was right. Technically, yes, it does. Practically the rules for it kicking in are so tight that there is not enough time for it to charge as much as you would like.

As many above say, on EHU it does, so, for most Calis, happy days.

Pretty sure (let’s say 95%) charging the leisures with solar on their own to full does not, unless on EHU, push anything back to the starter. You need the wire from the MPPT unit to the under seat relay.

This will trickle charge the engine, plugs into leisure / main 12v sockets:

Streetwize Charge and Go-Car to Car Starter | Euro Car Parts

Streetwize Charge and Go-Car to Car Starter at the lowest UK prices from Euro Car Parts UK’s No.1 for Car Accessories, Car Styling & Car Care. Buy today Online, In store or by Phone + Branches Nationwide – Next Day UK Free Delivery.

www.eurocarparts.com

Or one of these for a permanent option:

Chargers, Inverters and Power Management | Just Kampers

Chargers, Inverters and Power Management options for your Camper Van Conversion From Just Kampers. Order now for fast delivery.

www.justkampers.com

 

[dspuk]

This will trickle charge the engine, plugs into leisure / main 12v sockets:

Streetwize Charge and Go-Car to Car Starter | Euro Car Parts

Streetwize Charge and Go-Car to Car Starter at the lowest UK prices from Euro Car Parts UK’s No.1 for Car Accessories, Car Styling & Car Care. Buy today Online, In store or by Phone + Branches Nationwide – Next Day UK Free Delivery.

www.eurocarparts.com

Or one of these for a permanent option:

Chargers, Inverters and Power Management | Just Kampers

Chargers, Inverters and Power Management options for your Camper Van Conversion From Just Kampers. Order now for fast delivery.

www.justkampers.com

All the 12v on the newer 6.1s are powered by the leisures so all you would do is charge them.

Ended up buying an emergency power pack that we keep in the drawer in case I’m that dim again.

 

[Shadrack]

I’m a little late to this party but I asked myself the same a while ago after getting a starter flat and wanting to use any “spare” solar to stop it happening again. I had the sturdy Victron unit that does not trickle to the starter. After chatting to Roger at Solar he basically said it can but the MPPT rules for it doing so are so fractional it’s not worth the hassle.

Never the less, I changed the unit to a Epever one and sent a wire to the relay and sat back to bask in my starter charging glory.

It was not to be. Roger was right. Technically, yes, it does. Practically the rules for it kicking in are so tight that there is not enough time for it to charge as much as you would like.

As many above say, on EHU it does, so, for most Calis, happy days.

Pretty sure (let’s say 95%) charging the leisures with solar on their own to full does not, unless on EHU, push anything back to the starter. You need the wire from the MPPT unit to the under seat relay.

I discovered a while back with help ( thanks to Dspuk, Yossarian ) when upgrading to solar and then on to Lifep04 that there wasn’t an easy way of utilising solar at that time, to look after charge of both leisure and engine battery.
My solution was to install a make before break switch between the mppt battery o/p and the two separate batteries. This enables me to select engine battery charge from leisure should ever I need. (I have never needed yet)
At that time before swapping out the split charge relay with a Victron dc-dc, the engine battery charge from the make before break switch went to the engine battery terminal on this relay.

https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/attachments/b31bc87f-67ae-4daf-aba9-fa264bc3df51-jpeg.105142/

 

[RockinNRollin]

I suppose a really inefficient way to trickle charge the vehicle battery via solar would be to use a low power trickle charger, plug it into the inverter and wire it to the vehicle battery. I can imagine it not really being worth the hassle.

I wish the "soft close" on the sliding door was powered by the leisure batteries (I assume it isn't) as otherwise the vehicle battery would have virtually no draw on it while camping.

 

[WelshGas]

My experience. I have a T5.1 with 1 x 100w solar panel that is 10yrs old. I park at Heathrow Long stay for 5 weeks , alarm On, and it always starts on 1st turn of the key even below 0c during winter. I drive up overnight which means the Alternator runs at 100% output so all batteries are 100% charged when we park.

 

[Shadrack]

My experience. I have a T5.1 with 1 x 100w solar panel that is 10yrs old. I park at Heathrow Long stay for 5 weeks , alarm On, and it always starts on 1st turn of the key even below 0c during winter. I drive up overnight which means the Alternator runs at 100% output so all batteries are 100% charged when we park.

That’s the beauty of having solar, whether 100 or 200w, Agm or Lithium’s, the batteries are always kept topped up.
For me it’s to keep both of my front and rear cameras running the moment the Cali comes out of my garage and then not switched off until home again. (Both cameras are wired to leisure) combined they draw 400ma.