Is 4 motion really necessary?

[ChrisB]

Hi,
I am still working on my first purchase of a VW California. Unfortunately, there isn't much available in Spain at the right price. The exchange rate is a killer at the moment and prices here are generally high for vehicles with starship mileage. Importing just attracts Spanish taxes that defeat any cost savings. My original wish was to go for a new T6 150 4 MO DSG, but I have since come across a 2015 T5 DSG Comfortline (similar to Ocean) which has only 17.5k kilometres on the clock and is in immaculate condition. It also has all the knobs bells & whistles including extras such as a VW bike rack, xenon headlamps etc but it does not have 4 motion. The vehicle is priced at 50k euros and I might be able to make a cheeky bid at less than that. This is a considerable saving on a new T6 as described above. Assuming the second hand vehicle is as good as it is described, I would value opinions on the alternative of a T5 FWD Ocean from people who own one. We are unlikely to do any really serious off road stuff so I think I could probably lose the 4 Motion. What do people think?

 

[kave]

Go for it, I have 4-motion mainly because I swore buying rwd or 4wd years ago. I live in Sweden with snow four months every year but in Spain?
Save your € and go for it.

 

[Velma's Dad]

I can't imagine many people trying to do "serious off road stuff" in a VW van, it's hardly an off-road vehicle! So it mainly depends on what kind of roads you need to be able to drive on, and in what weather conditions.

But bear in mind that despite the manufacturers' propaganda, 4WD isn't safer than 2WD, it just allows you to have built up a higher speed when you crash... (Note that I'm not against 4WD vehicles generally: we have two 4WD cars, as we live on a hill and need to be able to get up it on the rare occasions it snows).

The main advantage of 4 Mo Cali, in southern Europe or most of the UK, would I think be on campsites in wet/muddy conditions. There's nothing more embarrassing than getting stuck with wheels spinning, in full view of all the other campers. But if it does happen, you're always going to find someone kind enough to pull you out.

I have a T5 SE with 2WD and so far the only time I've thought it would have been handy to have 4WD was on one particular campsite with a very steep gravel pathway where the extra traction would have been useful. But other than that I'm quite happy with a 2WD campervan.

However I'm sure there will be a whole lot of other opinions on this!!

 

[hirsty]

Some of the forum members have posted fantastic videos of Calis at an off-road school, I was amazed by how hairy some of the terrain was that they were getting over.

I have 2WD this time, but would very much like 4WD next time (if there is one) as - to us at least - the whole spirit of the vehicle is to get a bit further out into the countryside & 'away from it all'. I've also got stuck twice in my T6 in very tame looking flat grassed areas, once needing a tow out ...

 

[Hotel California]

Been discussed frequent on here.
Those have it say it is nesecary , those don't have it say it is ok without....

I do not have 4motion as i bought a demo.
But if i would buy new now and could affort it i would put it on the list.

I had one or two occasions i had come short with only FWD .
If regular driving on gravel,snowy roads it had his benefits
But it has his price and the extra weight ,
also belive there can not be a fith seat in a 4motion Cali ocean becose the weight limit

 

[B J G]

One of the reasons I added 4WD to my order was that as the Cali. weighs the best part of 3 tonnes the front wheel drive would would always be tending to loose grip when pulling away due to weight transfer towards the rear. This would show as a tendency towards wheel spin which would be greater in the wet or obviously on mud or grass.
With 4WD the front axle would pull & the rear push giving a much more consistent traction in all conditions.

4WD was actually an essential on my criteria which had more reasons than the above one.

 

[Michael G]

Go for the T5 with 2wd. Sounds like a good deal. I have 4motion since I bought a demo model. Almost never needed. But off course excellent in snow, I had to pull up a fellow driver from a ditch in Norway and the Cali hardly noticed the extra load uphill and on ice. Extremely sure-footed on snow when cornering, but 4wd is of little use the rest of the year.

 

[T6 CFO]

I'm with @BJG on this one. Having owned a front wheel Drive Touran with DSG and a pokey Diesel engine which suffered from front wheel spin even when driven with a gentle right boot I didn't want the same issue on the Cali. So 4WD it was for me. Also additional reasons of stability and coping better with the muddy field scenario. I may not ever need its full capability but if I do winter tyres which help even more will be added.

Having said all that (long story) I have driven a 2WD with the same spec as I have now and it was a great drive. The Cali by its very nature encourages a gentle driving style and therefore it is possible to keep front wheel spin to a minimum. For me though this was a one off purchase and I'm glad I stuck to my guns and got the 4WD.


Mike

 

[Teejay]

I'm with @BJG on this one. Having owned a front wheel Drive Touran with DSG and a pokey Diesel engine which suffered from front wheel spin even when driven with a gentle right boot I didn't want the same issue on the Cali. So 4WD it was for me. Also additional reasons of stability and coping better with the muddy field scenario. I may not ever need its full capability but if I do winter tyres which help even more will be added.

Having said all that (long story) I have driven a 2WD with the same spec as I have now and it was a great drive. The Cali by its very nature encourages a gentle driving style and therefore it is possible to keep front wheel spin to a minimum. For me though this was a one off purchase and I'm glad I stuck to my guns and got the 4WD.

Mike

I made the choice for 4WD for simliar reasons as @t6cfo and @BJG. I didn't want to find a site that I wish I'd been able to get to. I want to use mine all year around and it will have all weather tyres once these summer ones are done with.

I think Mike (@T6CFO) could be in a pretty exclusive club as having a similar spec'd machine with and without 4WD for a long term test drive.

If you can afford it tick the box if not well.....

..message ends..

 

[RedCali]

It depends where you think you will drive/ camp.
We have 2WD and live in the Lake District ie we drive on plenty of steep and poorly surfaced steep lanes - our Cali has never missed a beat. We don't need 4WD.
I also can't begin to imagine why anyone would want to camp in a wet and muddy field, but each to their own .

 

[T6 CFO]

It depends where you think you will drive/ camp.
We have 2WD and live in the Lake District ie we drive on plenty of steep and poorly surfaced steep lanes - our Cali has never missed a beat. We don't need 4WD.
I also can't begin to imagine why anyone would want to camp in a wet and muddy field, but each to their own .

I agree it does depend on where you think you will drive.
It also may not be a wet and muddy field when you arrive

Mike

 

[bvddobb]

We have a 4Motion, and we are among those who have no problem driving their Cali across extremely bad roads, through rivers, etc. It does that perfectly, and we think travelling in a Cali like that is fun, very doable and a lot more comfortable than in an ever leaking Landrover with a roof tent.


But is it necessary? No, not at all. We have had wonderful holidays in a T4 2WD Cali with the weakest motor as well. A 2WD Cali is also a very nice car, and if you don't foresee a more extreme use, than go for the deal you can get! A good driver can reach many wonderful places in a 2WD, too...

 

[GrannyJen]

Desirable but not necessary.

If you are not going to be wandering much off tarmac then definitely a non-essential. I've crashed and bashed mine off road,crashed over unmade tracks and bounced over various sizes of rockfalls but probably 2WD would have been capable as well, but for me it is to have the comfort of knowing it's there when life get's a bit hairy.

I've been in mud on a regular campsite and been grateful for 4WD but again I think a FWD 3 ton Cali would have still got off without too many problems and there are mud mats for just that event.

Deep snow on Tarmac, Skye, winter 2015, again quite grateful for the comfort factor but I suspect I would have still got home given that Albert is shod with Winter Tyres.

 

[andyinluton]

2 wheel drive plus the right tyres is better than 4 wheel drive with the wrong tyres in my opinion.
I had 20 years of landcover / range rovers all 4wd I've now had 3 years of a 2wd cali never regretted not getting 4wd.
It was an easy decision for me as I needed the 5th seat. Ok there have been occasions where Ive got a bit of wheelspin pulling away on a greasy road but no worse than I've had with any other "normal" car. If its getting stuck on a campsite you are worried about i wouldn't worry.
There is only a very small window of ground conditions where a 4wd cali would get out that a 2wd wouldn't if driven well.

 

[DM]

tame looking flat grassed areas

Me too. But I'm learning fast. The trick is not to break the turf. Avoid manoeuvres on the grass - straight on / straight off. I haven't got 4wd and haven't regretted it yet.

 

[DM]

I agree with the posts here about tyres. 4wd in a muddy field is only going to deliver marginal benefit over 2wd. I drove a 4wd Volvo for many years. I still have nightmares about the time we 'lost it' on a steep field in a very wet Wales. We careered nearly 200 yards down the hill before I managed to bring it to a halt - with not very much field left before the hedge. (The digital record of the tow out is on the internet but I'm not telling you where ). Do I wish I'd had the right tyres on that occasion!

So I saved some cash on 4wd (I wanted the 5th seat anyway) and will spend it on Winter tyres.

 

[briwy]

See our avatar and you will see why we have 4wd. Our van is used all year round and never been stuck yet but we certainly would have been without the 4 Motion.
Disagree about muddy fields. The 4wd is much better. Cousin has a 2wd and on the same field they almost got stuck wheras we just pulled away normally.
Obviously depends on the kind of use you put your van to and don't forget the 4wd isn't engaged all the time.

 

[DM]

See our avatar and you will see why we have 4wd. Our van is used all year round and never been stuck yet but we certainly would have been without the 4 Motion.
Disagree about muddy fields. The 4wd is much better. Cousin has a 2wd and on the same field they almost got stuck wheras we just pulled away normally.
Obviously depends on the kind of use you put your van to and don't forget the 4wd isn't engaged all the time.

Oh I love a good debate. Have to disagree back . I concede that 4wd will get you off a relatively flat field if the main drive wheels have cut the turf. But it won't allow you to drive up a steep wet grassy slope unless you also have the right tyres.

 

[briwy]

Well we must have the right tyres then
Yes, I agree about tyres but we were on the standard Dunlops that came with the van. No MS or anything.

 

[Hotel California]

https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/how-many-here-have-4-motion-worth-it.15098/

 

[Alibee]

Hi @ChrisB ,

Given that you live in relatively warm climes, and have expressed no great desire to climb river beds in 20cm of running water, I'm guessing you'll probably survive without!

We've gone for 2WD this time (due to funds and likely usage) but will go 204/4MO next time. This is only because we intend to do some proper adventuring once the kids are both >12yrs old, and experience has shown that a certain amount of off-road ability can help in overlanding. That said, we consistently saw the most intrepid 2WD vehicles (including T2 VWs) in utterly bonkers places when on tour. A well-driven 2WD vehicle with the right tyres on is capable of far more than most would believe.

 

[sidepod]

But bear in mind that despite the manufacturers' propaganda, 4WD isn't safer than 2WD

Blimey! Clearly you spent your working life as a vehicle dynamacist. Care to expand on your theory?

 

[motacyclist]

I've had both, the 4motion handles better and the traction is much better when pulling out from side roads in the wet on those occasion when you need to accelerate briskly.

Not really necessary though, but you can always hope you get the opportunity to do a bit of this!

 

[WelshGas]

Or this.

T5 California 2.0 BiTDI 4motion - anfahren im Schnee
Hotel California

Is this you @hotel california ?

 

[Hotel California]

Wish it was me , a 4motion ....nice!