Is the VW finally becoming just too expensive?

[OooOooTheMonkey]

And real world range in colder climes is far less @150 miles for a 'light' Buzz MPV assuming you go from full charge to sucking electrons (and with potential risks). Add habitation and the hit will be significant. I don't see EV's in the short to medium term getting to the point where they can achieve 400 miles range (real world) fully loaded for a family of 4.

I think 400 miles of range is on the cards in the not too distant future, but why would 400 miles of range be needed anyway? 300 is available now and is plenty when the charging network is vastly improved. You should be having a break every 2 hours anyway.

 

[JuanVecino2023]

I think 400 miles of range is on the cards in the not too distant future, but why would 400 miles of range be needed anyway? 300 is available now and is plenty when the charging network is vastly improved. You should be having a break every 2 hours anyway.

So gloomy sitting in a motorway service station even for 30 mins to get to 80% charge. And most of the time chargers are full or broken in my experience.

I think the 400 miles was referring to campervan range, not a commuter car.

ID Buzz is quoted at 180 miles. Real world reports I’ve seen are more like 120 miles.

Buzz I believe (so VW tell me), currently unworkable as a California as the weight will take it over the limit fit most people’s driving licence restrictions.

They’re going to have to put a fair amount of development into sorting that. I’d be surprised if we see a VW factory Buzz based camper before 2026.

 

[Corradobrit]

I think 400 miles of range is on the cards in the not too distant future, but why would 400 miles of range be needed anyway? 300 is available now and is plenty when the charging network is vastly improved. You should be having a break every 2 hours anyway.

Name me a transporter/commercial based BEV chassis pushing 4 tons, that gets anywhere close to 300 let alone 400 real world miles fully loaded. Cars yes but they make very poor camping vehicles.

 

[JuanVecino2023]

Name me a transporter/commercial based BEV chassis pushing 4 tons, that gets anywhere close to 300 let alone 400 real world miles fully loaded. Cars yes but they make very poor camping vehicles.

Cars do make poor camping vehicles.

Unless you are this guy.

 

[Corradobrit]

Cars do make poor camping vehicles.

Unless you are this guy.View attachment 116238

Is the GT40 leaking oil?

 

[JollyGoodShow]

I don’t think so much I’m speculating as to what I’ll be driving in 2050. I’m looking very much at the six inches in front of my face.

In terms of Betamax, from recollection it was a good technology that was usurped by VHS. Then BluRay and now streaming.

I see EV as an absolutely necessary bridge. But a bridge, not the future.

The best EV I have test driven was an i4. Not the dual motor. Drive most like a ‘proper’ RWD BMW.

I’m no EV hater. You’ve misinterpreted that. As I said, if someone else is paying, I’m all over it with my home charger.

I’m just not wearing the depreciation on my own dime.

All makes sense, and I did misunderstand you, so thank you for clarifying.

My EV is a salary sacrifice company car - I’m not keen to take residual risk either. However I do plan to buy outright a Volvo EX30 when I retire, and to own it long term. I think, looked after (I.e. charged sensibly) they will last well, and I am willing to gamble Mrs JGS’s hard earned pennies on that.

 

[Barry Chuckle]

I currently own an EV, have another on order and have owned one previously so I feel I have some experience in this area. To me the EV debate is a Jam Tomorrow debate, most EV's have a real world range of 200 and that isn't really much improvement from where we were 5 years ago. Also you have to bear in mind the rapid decay of the batteries when they get over 7 or 8 years old. Look at 10 year plus EV's like The Leaf on Autotrader, many are sold as having a fraction of the original range, some with as little as 30 or 40 miles!

 

[JuanVecino2023]

Is the GT40 leaking oil?

All makes sense, and I did misunderstand you, so thank you for clarifying.

My EV is a salary sacrifice company car - I’m not keen to take residual risk either. However I do plan to buy outright a Volvo EX30 when I retire, and to own it long term. I think, looked after (I.e. charged sensibly) they will last well, and I am willing to gamble Mrs JGS’s hard earned pennies on that.

Very wise, always bet on house money!

I’m waiting for the tech to bed in a bit further. I’ve got my charger for the PHEV.

I was looking at Honda e lease prices. Wildly expensive list price. Ditto Abarth e.

 

[JuanVecino2023]

I currently own an EV, have another on order and have owned one previously so I feel I have some experience in this area. To me the EV debate is a Jam Tomorrow debate, most EV's have a real world range of 200 and that isn't really much improvement from where we were 5 years ago. Also you have to bear in mind the rapid decay of the batteries when they get over 7 or 8 years old. Look at 10 year plus EV's like The Leaf on Autotrader, many are sold as having a fraction of the original range, some with as little as 30 or 40 miles!

Only ever lease them for now. Until there is a step change in tech.

 

[JollyGoodShow]

Only ever lease them for now. Until there is a step change in tech.

Not sure I agree. I do agree there is high risk on residual value, and if the batteries fail out of warranty, it’s a big problem; it’s a relatively unproven technology, and the second hand market is unclear. So I agree with the risk.

But when I look at lease prices, it seems to me that the lease prices factor in that risk. If you’re planning to own the car for say 10 years, the majority of its expected life, the cost per year of ownership is a lot less than leasing. Clearly you also have an older car, so it should be a lot less.

I’ve owned cars since 2006, and kept them from new for an average of 8 years. It has worked out much, much cheaper than leasing, and because I bought new models fairly near launch, I’ve always had the current model.

I think more than one strategy can work. I plan to buy, outright, a Volvo EX30 next year.

 

[JuanVecino2023]

Not sure I agree. I do agree there is high risk on residual value, and if the batteries fail out of warranty, it’s a big problem; it’s a relatively unproven technology, and the second hand market is unclear. So I agree with the risk.

But when I look at lease prices, it seems to me that the lease prices factor in that risk. If you’re planning to own the car for say 10 years, the majority of its expected life, the cost per year of ownership is a lot less than leasing. Clearly you also have an older car, so it should be a lot less.

I’ve owned cars since 2006, and kept them from new for an average of 8 years. It has worked out much, much cheaper than leasing, and because I bought new models fairly near launch, I’ve always had the current model.

I think more than one strategy can work. I plan to buy, outright, a Volvo EX30 next year.

I never lease my cars. With the exception of for the business. I prefer ownership. Except when VW will provide £35k for free.

EV leases were cheap, but rates & residuals are hitting pricing.

My take is lease for business on a salary give up. Tax efficient, cheap motoring,

Prices are too high while the tech is nascent. Residuals are terrible only 15% of mechanics are qualified/have the equipment to work on them.

And major insurers are either stopping insuring outright or bumping premiums massively due to above & battery costs.

Plus due to their weight, crash impact results in more wrote offs. And low slung batteries mean even minor prangs can damage the battery.

Not an ownership risk profile I would take on right now. I’ll lease and watch from the sidelines. Maybe pick up a cheap 2 year old EV in time, when someone else has worn the depreciation.

But everyone had their own risk profile & assessment.