Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[Rems23]

I’m sure it’s been mentioned several times already over the previous 170+ pages, but it seems inconceivable that VW are not issuing a formal recall of all 23/24 models for inspection, or at the very least writing to all owners to make them aware and check themselves. It’s entirely possible that an infrequent, fair weather camper could easily sail past warranty period having never experienced a rainy session with the roof up and therefore never knowing they even have a problem!

 

[babble]

so, miracle of miracles, after my bellows leaked and i filmed it and showed the water pouring in, VW Brussels have eventually replaced them for an 06s model. they made out like they had done me some enormous favour of course, and to get this done i had to take the van there twice, the first time last year for two weeks, (when they changed something entirely unrelated to the leaks,) then this time they kept the van for A MONTH. no apology of course, or anything at all, but at least i now have the 06s bellows fitted. as Rems23 says above it is astonishing that VW haven't just accepted that any pre 06s bellows should be changed is crazy/pathetic/offensive. i can't believe you have to wait, film it, then they test it etc. my god.

 

[RockinNRollin]

I’m sure it’s been mentioned several times already over the previous 170+ pages, but it seems inconceivable that VW are not issuing a formal recall of all 23/24 models for inspection, or at the very least writing to all owners to make them aware and check themselves. It’s entirely possible that an infrequent, fair weather camper could easily sail past warranty period having never experienced a rainy session with the roof up and therefore never knowing they even have a problem!

It has indeed been mentioned several times, but the consensus (with "insider knowledge" from those who have experience in the automotive industry) is recalls generally only happen for safety critical components. The fact changeovers are happening with little fuss demonstrates dealers are clearly aware of the issue as they aren't having to jump through the same "warranty hoops" they were 12 months ago.

It is unlikely the bellows will be going out of production anytime soon and given the affected vehicles typically have at least 12 months of warranty left on them, as long as owners act over the next year it shouldn't be an issue to resolve.

 

[Corradobrit]

Got my Cali back from the local VW Commercial dealer. Showed videos and pics of the leak, told them it leaks when the outer layer is saturated. After having my Cali for over a week I get the call that the Computer says no. The dealer was unable to see infiltration follwowing the VW test procedure. SInce I have the 03S which is considered the leakiest of the leakers, I was flabagasted. They couldn't even replicate the leak through the upper seal on the rear door. To add insult to injury I was made to pay 1.5 hours labour at over 200 euro for the experience.
Dealer seemed apologetic but said their hands were tied. With 3 revisions since my bellows was produced at the end of 2022, the fact that VW are not acknowledging the design problem which prevents me using the top beds under most rain conditions has soured my ownership experience.
I will argue my case at the Customer Center at the Factory and see if there is a better Cali specific dealer in the area which I can go to before my warranty expires in Jan. Failing that I'll be ordering a can of Aquatex.

This news piece I saw taday is no surprise to me.

Volkswagen cars taken away with little warning, says watchdog

VW Finance showed "a lack of empathy", according to the Financial Conduct Authority.

www.bbc.com

 

[Jimmylondon07]

Got my Cali back from the local VW Commercial dealer. Showed videos and pics of the leak, told them it leaks when the outer layer is saturated. After having my Cali for over a week I get the call that the Computer says no. The dealer was unable to see infiltration follwowing the VW test procedure. SInce I have the 03S which is considered the leakiest of the leakers, I was flabagasted. They couldn't even replicate the leak through the upper seal on the rear door. To add insult to injury I was made to pay 1.5 hours labour at over 200 euro for the experience.
Dealer seemed apologetic but said their hands were tied. With 3 revisions since my bellows was produced at the end of 2022, the fact that VW are not acknowledging the design problem which prevents me using the top beds under most rain conditions has soured my ownership experience.
I will argue my case at the Customer Center at the Factory and see if there is a better Cali specific dealer in the area which I can go to before my warranty expires in Jan. Failing that I'll be ordering a can of Aquatex.

This news piece I saw taday is no surprise to me.

Volkswagen cars taken away with little warning, says watchdog

VW Finance showed "a lack of empathy", according to the Financial Conduct Authority.

www.bbc.com

That’s an absolute fecking joke mate, a 200EUR charge as well?!

 

[stationmaster]

...all this shockingly poor treatment of VW customers...

And our reaction is?

We keep on buying them.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

Got my Cali back from the local VW Commercial dealer. Showed videos and pics of the leak, told them it leaks when the outer layer is saturated. After having my Cali for over a week I get the call that the Computer says no. The dealer was unable to see infiltration follwowing the VW test procedure. SInce I have the 03S which is considered the leakiest of the leakers, I was flabagasted. They couldn't even replicate the leak through the upper seal on the rear door. To add insult to injury I was made to pay 1.5 hours labour at over 200 euro for the experience.
Dealer seemed apologetic but said their hands were tied. With 3 revisions since my bellows was produced at the end of 2022, the fact that VW are not acknowledging the design problem which prevents me using the top beds under most rain conditions has soured my ownership experience.
I will argue my case at the Customer Center at the Factory and see if there is a better Cali specific dealer in the area which I can go to before my warranty expires in Jan. Failing that I'll be ordering a can of Aquatex.

This news piece I saw taday is no surprise to me.

Volkswagen cars taken away with little warning, says watchdog

VW Finance showed "a lack of empathy", according to the Financial Conduct Authority.

www.bbc.com

Absolutely shocking.

 

[Corradobrit]

You can't make this stuff up. Got this email from VW asking for feedback after my recent service

"Thank you for your last visit to the workshop with your VW California 6.1 H-BU 550 were with us on 20241015.
Your satisfaction is important to us and we want you to continue to be yours in the future Give trust. For this reason, we ask you for your feedback on your workshop visit. Your assessment helps us to improve our customer service.

To start the survey, please click on “Participate now”."

 

[acer]

You can't make this stuff up. Got this email from VW asking for feedback after my recent service

"Thank you for your last visit to the workshop with your VW California 6.1 H-BU 550 were with us on 20241015.
Your satisfaction is important to us and we want you to continue to be yours in the future Give trust. For this reason, we ask you for your feedback on your workshop visit. Your assessment helps us to improve our customer service.

To start the survey, please click on “Participate now”."

I’ve a feeling you might be giving them a little less than 10 out of 10

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Snap! ... Im hoping this was caused by the blocked drain

View attachment 129769

Mine leaking there wasn’t a blocked drain.

 

[Ghostbuster]

I now have the 06S bellows.
I haven't tried it in the rain as yet but just to say in comparison to the old one there is only one visible pin hole that I can see in the whole of the fabric.
The old one had them darted across most of the seams particularly where it is stitched.
The stitching around the side windows is where I had the biggest leak.
As someone else has mentioned, the vertical bands where the sides meet the front no have clear plastic tapes but I only had a slight leak there before.
I have a question which I'd like to ask and that's relating to having the bellows at full stretch.
Do you think it would be beneficial not to fully extend the roof and therefore not tension the fabric so much?

 

[SusiBus]

Our O5S bellows leaked very badly from under the rubber seal, which l attributed to being too taut. I'm now thinking with our newly fitted O6S bellows, which also look very taut, not to extend fully as you suggest if heavy rain is expected.

 

[ArunAlec]

Our O5S bellows leaked very badly from under the rubber seal, which l attributed to being too taut. I'm now thinking with our newly fitted O6S bellows, which also look very taut, not to extend fully as you suggest if heavy rain is expected.

You might find that if you leave any slack in the roof that the auto tensioner will just kick in and tighten it. Probably at 3 in the morning!

 

[CaliforniaPhil]

You might find that if you leave any slack in the roof that the auto tensioner will just kick in and tighten it. Probably at 3 in the morning!

Didn't think you could not tension it fully. When I first had mine, I released the button when it got to the top and the pump continues going. I just keep it in until it stops now. Might be wrong though.

 

[ArunAlec]

Didn't think you could not tension it fully. When I first had mine, I released the button when it got to the top and the pump continues going. I just keep it in until it stops now. Might be wrong though.

You’re right! Unless you release the button well before it’s all the way up but then the canvas will be really baggy!

 

[ChrisTravel]

First night in the Lakes rain tonight without wrap on........got to try it something....

 

[ChrisTravel]

Sadly as anticipated leaky bellows glad I had the wrap

 

[myvanrodney]

Sadly as anticipated leaky bellows glad I had the wrap

Which revision do you have?

 

[ChrisTravel]

04

 

[myvanrodney]

04

ah. time to get yourself an 06S . We get our's in a few weeks.

 

[WaikatoCalifornia]

Looking for other peoples' experiences with the new double lined pop top roof (the one that is grey outside / cream inside), and any potential solutions to the problem of leaking though the seams and fabric.

In the last week we've had complaints from customers on all four of our March 2023 Oceans that the new style pop tops have leaked, mostly though the seams in heavy rain or constant drizzle. Each of them has the new double lined lined pop top roof (grey outside / cream inside). It's not a problem that we had with our "old style" 2022 vehicles (the ones with the single grey pop top fabric) - I think it might be an issue with the new design.

I've read on the forums that putting the pop tops through a few wet / dry cycles will sort the issue as the fibres tighten up - has anyone experienced this with the new style pop top?

If not, has anyone tried something like a Nikwax application to improve waterproofness?

I just got the leaky bellows on my 2022 build Ocean (they were the older O2S which were grey on both sides) replaced under warranty with 06S bellows, which are white on the inside and grey on the outside… anyone had any experience with them? I can see clear evidences of seam stitching, like on a ski jacket, so fingers crossed that sorts it! No evidence of anything like that on the old O2S ones!

 

[babble]

I just got the leaky bellows on my 2022 build Ocean (they were the older O2S which were grey on both sides) replaced under warranty with 06S bellows, which are white on the inside and grey on the outside… anyone had any experience with them? I can see clear evidences of seam stitching, like on a ski jacket, so fingers crossed that sorts it! No evidence of anything like that on the old O2S ones!

the old 'grey on both sides' ones were the ones that (for most people) did not leak, then they redesigned them to the wet-suit material ones, with different colours inside and out, and they all leaked until the 06S ones you now have. So you should be good now! (for more details, see the rest of this thread)

 

[WaikatoCalifornia]

Didn't think you could not tension it fully. When I first had mine, I released the button when it got to the top and the pump continues going. I just keep it in until it stops now. Might be wrong though.

On that score, does anyone know what exactly it is that stops the hydraulic lifters (or whatever they are called) from over-tensioning the bellows so that they pop off their mounts/attachment points? I only ask as I notice my new 06S bellows are very taught (to the point where I can just see a speck of daylight at the bottom left hand corner, which I hope doesn’t become a leak point!), and I’ve heard of some people having trouble with (admittedly earlier bellow revisions) coming unstuck. When the bellows are fitted, does the technician electronically recalibrate how far they need to rise, or does the hydraulic pump just keep trying until it reaches a particular tension (my suspicion is the latter). I’d be interested to know. Thanks.

 

[WelshGas]

On that score, does anyone know what exactly it is that stops the hydraulic lifters (or whatever they are called) from over-tensioning the bellows so that they pop off their mounts/attachment points? I only ask as I notice my new 06S bellows are very taught (to the point where I can just see a speck of daylight at the bottom left hand corner, which I hope doesn’t become a leak point!), and I’ve heard of some people having trouble with (admittedly earlier bellow revisions) coming unstuck. When the bellows are fitted, does the technician electronically recalibrate how far they need to rise, or does the hydraulic pump just keep trying until it reaches a particular tension (my suspicion is the latter). I’d be interested to know. Thanks.

As far as I am aware the position of the Hydraulic piston is monitored from A, roof down, to B , roof up. No calibration possible and once the piston is in position B the pump runs until a set pressure is reached. The sensors on the Hydraulic rams monitor the positions which should be equal on both sides at the extremes of movement A& B.
There is no physical adjustment of the sensors possible.

 

[harryredchow]

Bellows update.

We had a family trip to Poole on Thursday. Dropped the van into Breeze Van Centre in the morning. The lovely team booked us in and gave us a combi van to use. The next morning we collected our van fitted perfectly with a set of 06S bellows. Have to give credit to Breeze for a wonderful, helpful service. No quibbles, they just ran the leak test and fitted the new bellows under warranty. There today they leak tested the new bellows and sent us on our way. Brilliant.

Poole was nice too. We stayed in Holes Bay Premier Inn and did some sightseeing. Well worth the journey if you have a leaky California.