Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[Kayleigh]

Interesting that the letter from VWCV acknowledged I would reject it if it doesn't get fixed but nothing from Crawley.

It's very frustrating on a 70k odd vehicle.

If you do decide to reject I think EV Crawley will have no trouble selling it on for a profit. Mine is no longer available on their website..

 

[Tomdbreeze]

Hi everyone just to give an update a UK product complaint has been raised by Volkswagen UK to the factory and this complaint has been accepted by the factory which they will be monitoring the cases that are raised with faulty original and replacement bellows.

We are now awaiting for additional information so we can provide the next instructions.

 

[Lorri]

Hi Everyone.
Our bellows appear to have the leaking issue - they are grey coloured.
Is it affecting everyone with grey bellows OR is this issue affecting all colours available ? ? Is it worth changing colour ?.
Thanks

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Hi Everyone.
Our bellows appear to have the leaking issue - they are grey coloured.
Is it affecting everyone with grey bellows OR is this issue affecting all colours available ? ? Is it worth changing colour ?.
Thanks

Ours were blue and leaked.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Ours were blue and leaked.

And it was replaced with another blue one. That leaked too.

 

[RockinNRollin]

Hi everyone just to give an update a UK product complaint has been raised by Volkswagen UK to the factory and this complaint has been accepted by the factory which they will be monitoring the cases that are raised with faulty original and replacement bellows.

We are now awaiting for additional information so we can provide the next instructions.

Thank you @Tomdbreeze that’s useful information. It would be appreciated if you can share the further updates please.

 

[CamperFam]

For any new owners with a Cali and tempted to refused the vehicle - personal opinion - see if VW come up with a fix if you still have time within your rejection period. I'd certainly make your position clear to VW - but dont pull the trigger unless you feel you have to.

I really feel for each and every owner who's had a crummy start to VW Cali ownership. We had a fantastic start to ours which has only improved each year. Had we had a poor experience from the outset, I'm sure that would have changed; but we'd have missed out on the best vehicle experience we've had to date (ex-petrol head, traded everything in for a Cali Ocean). But at the end of the day, this is down to fabric choice / stitching / etc. It's not the vehicle itself, but a single part which can be replaced.
Naturally do what's best for you - but if you are able to hold off for a fix, i'd definitely recommend - our ownership has been a brilliant experience, and if VW do sort it out (cant see why they wouldn't - this is going to cost them a bomb otherwise!), you'll have a brilliant time.

 

[RockinNRollin]

For any new owners with a Cali and tempted to refused the vehicle - personal opinion - see if VW come up with a fix if you still have time within your rejection period. I'd certainly make your position clear to VW - but dont pull the trigger unless you feel you have to.

I really feel for each and every owner who's had a crummy start to VW Cali ownership. We had a fantastic start to ours which has only improved each year. Had we had a poor experience from the outset, I'm sure that would have changed; but we'd have missed out on the best vehicle experience we've had to date (ex-petrol head, traded everything in for a Cali Ocean). But at the end of the day, this is down to fabric choice / stitching / etc. It's not the vehicle itself, but a single part which can be replaced.
Naturally do what's best for you - but if you are able to hold off for a fix, i'd definitely recommend - our ownership has been a brilliant experience, and if VW do sort it out (cant see why they wouldn't - this is going to cost them a bomb otherwise!), you'll have a brilliant time.

My thoughts exactly. The bellows is a relatively easy part to swap out. I’m sure a fix will come.

 

[californiakid]

My thoughts exactly. The bellows is a relatively easy part to swap out. I’m sure a fix will come.

The long and winding road is the path VW drive , just look back to roof corrosion denials and its probably going to take time that frustrates owners. The canvas or whatever the material is used must surely have been tested at manufacture to see if it is fit for purpose. Its just another headache of California ownership from my experience.

 

[Corradobrit]

The canvas or whatever the material is used must surely have been tested at manufacture to see if it is fit for purpose.

The material itself is not the problem. It has a significantly increased water column rating vs the previous gen material. The headache VW now face is the implementation of the material as bellows in the poptop. The stitching at the seams and along the zippers is causing the skin to leak. In my case the water initially seaps in along the semi circular window stitching after only a few minutes of persistent rain. Within a a few mins that 'sweating' develops into a steady drip-drip about once a second. I have no doubt with prolonged exposure other seams would start to fail.
When I closed the poptop the compression and folding of saturated outer fabric then caused the water to cascade in through the seams, like squeezing a sponge, into the cabin and onto the seats.

 

[Jimmylondon07]

Is there a general consensus on how long affected owners are willing to wait for a solution?

 

[Corradobrit]

Is there a general consensus on how long affected owners are willing to wait for a solution?

I think timescales are pointless unless you are in a position and willing to return the Cali. I'm not so will pursue a remedy vigorously.
What is important is to maintain the pressure on VW (I will be going to the Factory Customer Center this week with videos, pics and printouts of this and the Calibord.de thread and if they feign ignorance I will be truly p!ssed) to work towards a resolution. Tom Breeze's recent comment was encouraging but does illustrate how slowly the cogs turn. It's been well over 6 months since the first reports of leaks started to appear. I will also go a local dealer in Hannover who will handle the repairs, to log the warranty complaint and have them do their own testing if needed.
There are legal avenues that can be pursued in the EU courts too, but hopefully VW will understand they have a major issue that isn't going away or going to get better (plenty of replacement bellows also leaking) before a Class Action Suit is necessary.

 

[RockinNRollin]

The long and winding road is the path VW drive , just look back to roof corrosion denials and its probably going to take time that frustrates owners. The canvas or whatever the material is used must surely have been tested at manufacture to see if it is fit for purpose. Its just another headache of California ownership from my experience.

It’s not quite the same though; the roof corrosion is something that sometimes appears and takes time to. The leaking bellows are defective from the off and demonstrably so - there’s no waiting for it to slowly evolve into a problem

 

[ArunAlec]

Doesn’t it state in the manual that the fabric should not be sprayed with anything?
So in your case VWCV have about 4 months to provide a permanent solution. The clock is ticking…

Certainly said that in the T5.1 manual, so I would be wary of any treatment, even if suggested by a dealer!

 

[dspuk]

Certainly said that in the T5.1 manual, so I would be wary of any treatment, even if suggested by a dealer!

T6.1 previous bellows manual says same.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Hi everyone just to give an update a UK product complaint has been raised by Volkswagen UK to the factory and this complaint has been accepted by the factory which they will be monitoring the cases that are raised with faulty original and replacement bellows.

We are now awaiting for additional information so we can provide the next instructions.

Hi Tom, do all the VW Van Centers know about this product complaint to VWCV UK and its escalation to VWCV Group? I ask because I have the same trouble of a leaking pop top canvas that has been replaced under warranty and that replacement (last week) also leaks. I am now at a position of having to make a decision, keep the van and wait for a solution from VW or reject my purchase under the The Consumer Rights Act 2015. I just wanted to know how much information The Van Centers are likely to have about this problem as it seems some know/communicate more/less information that others.
Any help would be great. Thanks in advance.

 

[Corradobrit]

I have my Cali booked in 3 weeks from today for the leaking poptop and a few other warranty issues. The Commercial Vehicle dealer here in the home of VW Commercial claimed not to have had another MY23 owner present this problem. I really have a hard time believing all these dealers are so ignorant of this design defect. Sounds more like a directive from VW not to discuss the matter. Get the vehicles in, run their own tests, log the results and open the warranty claim. The short video I presented and the aftermath of soaked front seats helped illustrate the magnitude of things.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I have my Cali booked in 3 weeks from today for the leaking poptop and a few other warranty issues. The Commercial Vehicle dealer here in the home of VW Commercial claimed not to have had another MY23 owner present this problem. I really have a hard time believing all these dealers are so ignorant of this design defect. Sounds more like a directive from VW not to discuss the matter. Get the vehicles in, run their own tests, log the results and open the warranty claim. The short video I presented and the aftermath of soaked front seats helped illustrate the magnitude of things.

Well, I have sent off an email to my dealer asking the question. "OK now we know the replacement canvas leaks what next?? I await their answer.

 

[Nigel Herriott]

We have Dec 2022 Ocean with the new fabric. Only had a few days rain when using it but have not had any problems so far except for our second outing in the van March. There were 50mph winds and sheets of rain all night. I parked rear into the wind and when we got up we found our Duvet was damp at the bottom, but we hadn’t noticed it during the night as our feet don’t go down that far. I thought that wasn’t to bad considering the weather with the heavy wind an rain blowing directly at the rear. I think we would sleep downstairs in future with the roof down if the weather was going to be so bad.

 

[Corradobrit]

We have Dec 2022 Ocean with the new fabric. Only had a few days rain when using it but have not had any problems so far except for our second outing in the van March. There were 50mph winds and sheets of rain all night. I parked rear into the wind and when we got up we found our Duvet was damp at the bottom, but we hadn’t noticed it during the night as our feet don’t go down that far. I thought that wasn’t to bad considering the weather with the heavy wind an rain blowing directly at the rear. I think we would sleep downstairs in future with the roof down if the weather was going to be so bad.

I also thought my fabric was impervious to leaks after a couple of days of mild rain and no leaks detected. IMO taking evasive actions to avoid serious leaks is counter productive. What if the wind direction changed during the night and you wake up with saturated front seats and a water damaged control panel or worse.
I left my poptop up in medium to heavy persistent rain with little wind and the leaks started within 5 mins. The rate of water infiltration increased substantially over the next 5 mins and this was just from the curved zipper. I can only imagine the carnage if I had left things to worsen with water entering through other seams, over several hours.
Everyone needs to stress test their bellows and not aim at an avoidance strategy. The sooner we accept that all these new bellows will leak the quicker we will be a proper remedy.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

So my leaking bellows are back with the dealer.

It turns out that the deep-dive VW UK technical have asked for is for the bellows to be removed so the dealer can tell VW UK what the part number of the bellows is.

They can't tell the dealer where they can locate the part number hence removal.

I'm not sure there's a part number on them...

 

[Jimmylondon07]

I also thought my fabric was impervious to leaks after a couple of days of mild rain and no leaks detected. IMO taking evasive actions to avoid serious leaks is counter productive. What if the wind direction changed during the night and you wake up with saturated front seats and a water damaged control panel or worse.
I left my poptop up in medium to heavy persistent rain with little wind and the leaks started within 5 mins. The rate of water infiltration increased substantially over the next 5 mins and this was just from the curved zipper. I can only imagine the carnage if I had left things to worsen with water entering through other seams, over several hours.
Everyone needs to stress test their bellows and not aim at an avoidance strategy. The sooner we accept that all these new bellows will leak the quicker we will be a proper remedy.

Bang on. It's been said before but I'd encourage everyone to test theirs with a hose at home where you can control the conditions. I did mine at 0800 on Saturday...by 0810 the test was done and by 1600 I was able to put down a fully dry roof with no further stress.

I was worried about doing it through fear of damaging something but it's not complicated, all you need is a hose with a spray attachment, a step ladder and some gaffer tape. Push the roof bed out of the way, put an absorbent cloth in each corner, put some towels over the front seats just to catch any drips and stop the test as soon as you've got the videos and pics you need. I even had a cup of tea on the go while I was doing it.

Much, much rather that than on a campsite in the middle of the night.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

So my leaking bellows are back with the dealer.

It turns out that the deep-dive VW UK technical have asked for is for the bellows to be removed so the dealer can tell VW UK what the part number of the bellows is.

They can't tell the dealer where they can locate the part number hence removal.

I'm not sure there's a part number on them...

I looked for the part number on mine. There appears to be a white sticker on the front right vertical reinforced bit that folds in half onwards when the roof comes down. It may have the part number on it, but it can’t be revealed with the roof up as it’s under too much tension.

 

[Jimmylondon07]

So my leaking bellows are back with the dealer.

It turns out that the deep-dive VW UK technical have asked for is for the bellows to be removed so the dealer can tell VW UK what the part number of the bellows is.

They can't tell the dealer where they can locate the part number hence removal.

I'm not sure there's a part number on them...

Not exactly confidence-inspiring is it mate?

 

[Jabberwocky]

The VW part number for the "New" Ocean Bellows is W7LA 875 059 C7 MH with the "C", four characters from the right of the whole part number. As far as I know there is no part number shown on the actual bellows product other than the manufacturers (Subcontracted) tag label. See below. The VW number is probably limited to being on the product packaging.