Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[Kayleigh]

I'm still confused by the VW response. My reply was from a different Customer Relations Manager.

So far my van was returned (400 miles round trip) to Crawley and they filed a warranty claim for new bellows; This now requires a 1 week further investigation a 200 mile trip and a train journey home... And then the reverse.

I asked VWCV what Technical are hoping to further gain from a week in the workshop.
I asked VWCV if there was anyone co-ordinating their response and providing weekly updates.
I asked what the stock position was for the latest bellows (I heard they were out of stock some weeks ago).

I've had nothing back from VWCV since the initial response. Their first reply was after they told you Shahid was collating details of the owners.

I'm highly sceptical that there's any co-ordination going on here. I hope to be proved wrong.

Surely Eurovans will be giving you a vehicle to use while they perform diagnostics won’t they?

 

[The Little Red Cali]

Yes, I will be having a go with the bellows to see what happens, knowing I have the topper as back up. It shouldn't be like this, but I want to be out and about rather than back and forth...

I’m in the same position. We collect ours hopefully in about 5 weeks time and I was going to buy a topper anyway for sound deafening and black out qualities when sleeping up top. Just want to get out there and enjoy the van. I will test in the rain though and report as necessary if leaks. I’m also going to make it clear to the dealer when I pick the van up that if there is major problem with the bellows then I will be rejecting also. Trying to remain optimistic and just excited now to plan all our trips for next year.

 

[Kayleigh]

I’m in the same position. We collect ours hopefully in about 5 weeks time and I was going to buy a topper anyway for sound deafening and black out qualities when sleeping up top. Just want to get out there and enjoy the van. I will test in the rain though and report as necessary if leaks. I’m also going to make it clear to the dealer when I pick the van up that if there is major problem with the bellows then I will be rejecting also. Trying to remain optimistic and just excited now to plan all our trips for next year.

I would put that in writing with the dealer and agree a timescale for rejecting if longer than 30 days.
Are you going for a full topper or a wrap by the way? You may want to agree with the dealer that they fund it if the bellows leak.

 

[The Little Red Cali]

I would put that in writing with the dealer and agree a timescale for rejecting if longer than 30 days.
Are you going for a full topper or a wrap by the way? You may want to agree with the dealer that they fund it if the bellows leak.

I was going to get a wrap as they seem to be a bit quieter in the wind. Good idea about putting it in writing though. No doubt they’ll say they’ve had no problems with leaks.

 

[Ryanrunsfar123]

I'm in the same boat - hired a 2023 Ocean which leaked in the summer... it wasn't dreadful but I know what I'm up against at least! Rainbow Screens wrap already here just in case. Delivery in c. 5-7 weeks apparently

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

Surely Eurovans will be giving you a vehicle to use while they perform diagnostics won’t they?

Yes they did offer but I didn't sell our main car just in case of any issues (that car and the Cali are for towing a caravan) which turned out just as well.

So I don't need a loan car sitting on our driveway and that way they can have a few weeks to fix it.

 

[Jimmylondon07]

I can understand why you've done this but I wouldn't wait for any kind of "recall" before trialling out your bellows and reporting if leaking.

I suspect there are a lot of owners (I'm in contact with a few in this category) that are putting off trying their bellows in the rain until there's a solution.

I rather suspect that until more folks come along, a topper may be the only solution...

I was in this camp up until this week, it seems so counter-intuitive to spend so much money on something and then throw a load of water at a probable weak spot, knowing the damage that it could cause and also having spoken to members on here that have ended up with rusty scissor mechanisms and all sorts.

However I think you simply have to overcome that feeling of wanting to look after your new toy and get it done as soon as you can. I’ve had my van for a little under two months now and it’s taken me until now; I’ve had the roof up twice this week in varying types of rain and so far it hasn’t leaked so there’s hope at least. I still don’t think that’s enough though so I’ll be taking a hosepipe to it as soon as I’ve got a few hours to clean the van up afterwards. If it does leak I’ll be notifying the dealer that they have a set period to issue a permanent, VW approved fix or I’ll be rejecting it under the CRA. Ultimately I think everyone should do the same.

The question for me is what to consider as acceptable performance; for example, if the hose is on a spray setting and put directly above the bellows for 30 minutes straight, is it a fair assumption that it shouldn’t leak at all?

 

[Kayleigh]

The question for me is what to consider as acceptable performance; for example, if the hose is on a spray setting and put directly above the bellows for 30 minutes straight, is it a fair assumption that it shouldn’t leak at all?

I used a test rig for both the tests I performed on the bellows. I just added a YouTube video for anyone interested.

 

[Jimmylondon07]

I used a test rig for both the tests I performed on the bellows. I just added a YouTube video for anyone interested.

Did you ever get around to doing an identical test on the Beach?

 

[NickE]

Mine leaks after an hour of heavy rain from both the front and sides. The point here is that the bellows should withstand it raining all night. My 5.1 managed that no problem.

 

[Tressle]

After a couple of years away from the forum having sold my 2019 Beach I was very much looking forward to my new 6.1 Ocean which I took delivery of a couple of weeks ago. I've been following this thread wondering if my bellows (dated 15/07/23) would be of the leaky variety and after a couple of hours in the rain today I can confirm that indeed they do - from the front, sides and rear!!! Clearly not fit for purpose as the water is dripping down the windows and on the front seats, really can't imagine my family getting a nights sleep if this is the result of a couple of hours of relatively light rainfall.
Just wondering if people are directing complaints to both supplying dealers and/or VWCV customer care? I'm finding it hard to fathom how such an obvious problem that conflicts with the very nature of what the vehicle is designed for is yet to be addressed by VW. On the case tomorrow morning.....

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

After a couple of years away from the forum having sold my 2019 Beach I was very much looking forward to my new 6.1 Ocean which I took delivery of a couple of weeks ago. I've been following this thread wondering if my bellows (dated 15/07/23) would be of the leaky variety and after a couple of hours in the rain today I can confirm that indeed they do - from the front, sides and rear!!! Clearly not fit for purpose as the water is dripping down the windows and on the front seats, really can't imagine my family getting a nights sleep if this is the result of a couple of hours of relatively light rainfall.
Just wondering if people are directing complaints to both supplying dealers and/or VWCV customer care? I'm finding it hard to fathom how such an obvious problem that conflicts with the very nature of what the vehicle is designed for is yet to be addressed by VW. On the case tomorrow morning.....

I'm sorry to hear you too have the leaky bellows. I was wondering if any later models would appear anytime soon.

There was some thought that bellows manufactured after June 2023 might be a newer variant but whatever, seems the same problem.

Report to dealer and raise a complaint to vwcv customer care.

They are aware of dozens with the same fault but aren't really getting a grip of the situation.

customercare@vwcv.co.uk

I'd stick your reg number and "Leaking Bellows" in the subject line...

 

[RockinNRollin]

Yea that’s quite frustrating news - whatever the issue is, it clearly hasn’t been resolved yet.

 

[BigJohn]

The question for me is what to consider as acceptable performance; for example, if the hose is on a spray setting and put directly above the bellows for 30 minutes straight, is it a fair assumption that it shouldn’t leak at all?

To answer your question @Jimmylondon07 , I would say it is a fair assumption - our April '22 cali with the old style bellows was up all night last night in a Scottish storm, lashing down for about 12hrs, and although the material was damp on the inside (and that could be condensation) there was no dripping.

 

[Kayleigh]

Did you ever get around to doing an identical test on the Beach?

No, but i can do that if we have a decent drying day! The Beach has no panoramic zip or opening front window, in fact it has no front window at all. There is also no fabric stretching with a manual roof, so with no potential weak points at the front, it would purely be a test of the fabric itself.

 

[RockinNRollin]

I would suggest the acceptable level of performance should be it should keep out persistent rain in anything up to moderate winds. If the windspeed rises to very strong wind-driven rain, arguably that is pushing the performance envelope somewhat (and at that point, likely to get some ingress via the ventilation holes near the roof).

 

[Jimmylondon07]

Well I tested them this morning, within 4 minutes water was leaking through the front seam at the sides and in the middle and dripping in to the cab. Had seen enough at that point so I stopped the test, I know what follows from there.

Going to think about my next steps for the next day or two, has anyone rejected their van after the initial 30 day period? I collected on the 31st of July.

 

[Joncali2023!!]

Well I tested them this morning, within 4 minutes water was leaking through the front seam at the sides and in the middle and dripping in to the cab. Had seen enough at that point so I stopped the test, I know what follows from there.

Going to think about my next steps for the next day or two, has anyone rejected their van after the initial 30 day period? I collected on the 31st of July.

You can reject upto 6 months.
But after 30 days you just need to give them 1 chance to rectify the issue. Which in this case they can’t

 

[andyinluton]

You can reject after 6 months but have to prove the fault was there when the van was purchased - pretty easy to prove when others have the same fault.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

Well I tested them this morning, within 4 minutes water was leaking through the front seam at the sides and in the middle and dripping in to the cab. Had seen enough at that point so I stopped the test, I know what follows from there.

Going to think about my next steps for the next day or two, has anyone rejected their van after the initial 30 day period? I collected on the 31st of July.

I thought after 30 days you had to give them one opportunity to fix the fault.

Also there can be a discussion on paying something towards the use you've been able to make of the vehicle. So its not an automatic full refund.

 

[andyinluton]

I thought after 30 days you had to give them one opportunity to fix the fault.

Also there can be a discussion on paying something towards the use you've been able to make of the vehicle. So its not an automatic full refund.

Correct - you have to give them the chance to fix it. In case law no-one has defined what a reasonable amount for usage is, in cases that have gone to the financial ombudsman the starting point has been £0.45 per mile.
If you have finance its the finance company that own the car & you are buying off them, they should refund your deposit & any payments made.

 

[Jimmylondon07]

Correct - you have to give them the chance to fix it. In case law no-one has defined what a reasonable amount for usage is, in cases that have gone to the financial ombudsman the starting point has been £0.45 per mile.
If you have finance its the finance company that own the car & you are buying off them, they should refund your deposit & any payments made.

I assume the only ‘fix’ they might be able to offer me right now is a spray with a bottle of Fabsil. In which case can I reject their fix if I don’t deem it appropriate (eg a permanent, approved fix from VWCV)?

I don’t have finance on it.

 

[Kayleigh]

I assume the only ‘fix’ they might be able to offer me right now is a spray with a bottle of Fabsil. In which case can I reject their fix if I don’t deem it appropriate (eg an approved fix from VWCV)?

I don’t have finance on it.

Doesn’t it state in the manual that the fabric should not be sprayed with anything?
So in your case VWCV have about 4 months to provide a permanent solution. The clock is ticking…

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

I assume the only ‘fix’ they might be able to offer me right now is a spray with a bottle of Fabsil. In which case can I reject their fix if I don’t deem it appropriate (eg a permanent, approved fix from VWCV)?

I don’t have finance on it.

When mine went back the first time they made noises about the initial response is to spray / seal. I didn't drill down on that because they immediately put in a warranty claim for new bellows

But, since there is no technical bulleting stating a sealer spray, and given the manual says don't spray with anything I think they were just winging it.

My warranty claim didn't get approved and it goes back on Monday as it's of special interest to VWCV. The pop top doesn't deploy any more so I couldn't really fight the need for them to have the van again.

Interesting that the letter from VWCV acknowledged I would reject it if it doesn't get fixed but nothing from Crawley.

It's very frustrating on a 70k odd vehicle.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

I'm aware of one person who has had the bellows replaced @oooothemonkey and this was a failure.

Anyone know if any more bellows have been replaced in the UK??