Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[CaliforniaCylus]

The VW part number for the "New" Ocean Bellows is W7LA 875 059 C7 MH with the "C", four characters from the right of the whole part number. As far as I know there is no part number shown on the actual bellows product other than the manufacturers (Subcontracted) tag label. See below. The VW number is probably limited to being on the product packaging.

View attachment 114870

I think what's interesting about that Tag is the July date.

I read somewhere that there was some small hope that Bellows manufactured post June might be different...

 

[Corradobrit]

I think what's interesting about that Tag is the July date.

I read somewhere that there was some small hope that Bellows manufactured post June might be different...

That was the inference on Calibord. Bellows made after 1st July were supposed to be water tight. Clearly a false dawn.

 

[Jabberwocky]

That was the inference on Calibord. Bellows made after 1st July were supposed to be water tight. Clearly a false dawn.

Maybe not because I am suspicious of that July date.

 

[RockinNRollin]

Is there any evidence anywhere of any replacement bellows (so probably very recently replaced) being watertight? On this forum or elsewhere?

 

[Corradobrit]

Is there any evidence anywhere of any replacement bellows (so probably very recently replaced) being watertight? On this forum or elsewhere?

Not that I'm aware of and I've been following both threads very carefully. All the replacements have also leaked which is not big surprise and no one has been able to point a finger at any obvious production differences. The seams, stitching and thread should be noticeably different before I would feel the problem has been cracked.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

Is there any evidence anywhere of any replacement bellows (so probably very recently replaced) being watertight? On this forum or elsewhere?

Is there also any evidence of recently manufactured vans having leaky bellows?

My dealer claimed there had been no reported leak problems with vehicles collected in the last 2 weeks...

 

[Corradobrit]

no reported leak problems with vehicles collected in the last 2 weeks...

It took 8 months before I finally got the confirmation I was leaky. Most owners are not going to be aware of a problem..... until the poptop gets a good soaking.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

It took 8 months before I finally got the confirmation I was leaky. Most owners are not going to be aware of a problem..... until the poptop gets a good soaking.

Indeed but with my dealer there were a batch collected where I know several including ours were known about first time out...

 

[Tressle]

Is there also any evidence of recently manufactured vans having leaky bellows?

My dealer claimed there had been no reported leak problems with vehicles collected in the last 2 weeks...

I picked up my Ocean on September 8th and the bellows leak all sides - water pooling in all four corners and dripping on the front seats! July production date on the tag. Waiting for a response from VWCV but nothing as yet...

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

I picked up my Ocean on September 8th and the bellows leak all sides - water pooling in all four corners and dripping on the front seats! July production date on the tag. Waiting for a response from VWCV but nothing as yet...

View attachment 114879

What's the dealer say?? Also chase VWCV after a week and then every few days.

Can I suggest you pay for a subscription to the forum because then people can private message each other.

I've learnt a lot from private messages as you don't always want to publicly diss the dealer or VW...

 

[Carabiner]

Well, we’re in the leaky gang too! @CaliforniaCylus was at Eurovans getting his fixed, when we picked ours up. All looked good, but last night on a windy and wet night in Northern Scotland clear signs of leaks on the front and side panels. Ho-hum, will report it shortly, but a bit hesitant to push for a quick replacement when no fix seems to be available!

 

[RockinNRollin]

Well, we’re in the leaky gang too! @CaliforniaCylus was at Eurovans getting his fixed, when we picked ours up. All looked good, but last night on a windy and wet night in Northern Scotland clear signs of leaks on the front and side panels. Ho-hum, will report it shortly, but a bit hesitant to push for a quick replacement when no fix seems to be available!

Unfortunately if you say nothing it makes the problem smaller to VW. At the end of the day every replacement is costly - they’ll take notice the more it costs them.

 

[Glenderaterra]

Well, we’re in the leaky gang too! @CaliforniaCylus was at Eurovans getting his fixed, when we picked ours up. All looked good, but last night on a windy and wet night in Northern Scotland clear signs of leaks on the front and side panels. Ho-hum, will report it shortly, but a bit hesitant to push for a quick replacement when no fix seems to be available!

I picked up my Beach today and mentioned the generic problem of leaking bellows at the handover. The salesman was aware of it and said they should not leak but if ours did we should bring it back and they would reproof it under warranty. This was at Preston.
I have camped fairly extensively and this is certainly what I would do with a tent that was leaking at the seams. In a tent that would usually sort out the problem.
I will wait and see.

 

[Corradobrit]

they would reproof it under warranty.

That is crazy and contrary to what is stated in the manual. No chemicals or sealants are to be used on the fabric. There is no 'proofing' on the original seams. Are they suggesting to do all the seams or just the ones that leak in their test. It might cure the problem for a season or two but ultimately the leaking will return and when out of warranty. This fabric is stretchable and eventually the seams will reopen. The only response that the Preston dealer needs to hear is that the bellows leak and that you as the owner insist that VW replace them with a water resistant product that meets the needs of a camper van for 4, which is what you paid for.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I picked up my Ocean on September 8th and the bellows leak all sides - water pooling in all four corners and dripping on the front seats! July production date on the tag. Waiting for a response from VWCV but nothing as yet...

View attachment 114879

Our Tag date is very close to yours with just nine days apart.

 

[Tomdbreeze]

Hi Tom, do all the VW Van Centers know about this product complaint to VWCV UK and its escalation to VWCV Group? I ask because I have the same trouble of a leaking pop top canvas that has been replaced under warranty and that replacement (last week) also leaks. I am now at a position of having to make a decision, keep the van and wait for a solution from VW or reject my purchase under the The Consumer Rights Act 2015. I just wanted to know how much information The Van Centers are likely to have about this problem as it seems some know/communicate more/less information that others.
Any help would be great. Thanks in advance.

Hi Apologises for the delay in replying.

There will be some dealers that know more than others, there could be a number of different factors for the reasoning why. How many they sell for instance? Or how far they report it to Volkswagen when there is an issue.

The other thing could be down to that not all Van Centres are a California centre so your local dealership might be none the wiser if they don’t sell California from New.

Us at Breeze as a dealership our dealing directly with the head of service and product for Volkswagen Uk and this is who we are reporting too and getting information from.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

Hi everyone just to give an update a UK product complaint has been raised by Volkswagen UK to the factory and this complaint has been accepted by the factory which they will be monitoring the cases that are raised with faulty original and replacement bellows.

We are now awaiting for additional information so we can provide the next instructions.

Hi Tom,

Some interesting words there regarding "monitoring the cases raised". Does this imply they don't yet truly recognise the scale of the problem?

Ours went back to a big Cali dealer today for yet further investigation. VW Technical have asked them to strip the bellows to find the part number. They have apparently (VW) agreed the bellows need replacement... ... but not until they know which part I assume.

They couldn't tell the dealer where they might find the part number, just take them out and look everywhere...

Judging by this forum and calibord.de (which has 40 pages on leaking bellows), I did suggest they might be unlucky in this search.

But surely, VW (UK) Technical must know if the part number is on the bellows and if it is, how come no-one else has managed to find one? People compiling lists of the white label tag trying to find a pattern when if only they knew to check the part number!!!!

 

[Tressle]

What's the dealer say?? Also chase VWCV after a week and then every few days.

Can I suggest you pay for a subscription to the forum because then people can private message each other.

I've learnt a lot from private messages as you don't always want to publicly diss the dealer or VW...

VIP is on the list! Just returned having had a break after selling the Beach - no leaky bellows on the 2019 model! Thanks for the nudge.
The dealer (SMG Tonbridge) is very receptive and I've been very happy with their service having bought 2 vans from them. The problem it seems is that they have no information from VWCV to go on so can't determine a way forward.

 

[ArunAlec]

Unfortunately if you say nothing it makes the problem smaller to VW. At the end of the day every replacement is costly - they’ll take notice the more it costs them.

Agree, VW have to feel the pain in their pocket before they do anything. Strange that they’ve never appeared to have been concerned about the cost of replacing leaky windows nor the expense of sorting (not very well) corroding pop tops!

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

I picked up my Beach today and mentioned the generic problem of leaking bellows at the handover. The salesman was aware of it and said they should not leak but if ours did we should bring it back and they would reproof it under warranty. This was at Preston.
I have camped fairly extensively and this is certainly what I would do with a tent that was leaking at the seams. In a tent that would usually sort out the problem.
I will wait and see.

This is so bad on so many fronts.

The material on the bellows is highly water repellent. I've never seen anything like it. It's a problem with the seams / stitching / pin holes and eventually the water wicks in. Re-proofing isn't going to fix that. It might be that the seams weren't stitched with a seam sealer.

The manuals say not to use any chemicals on the bellows.

There are no technical bulletins on the bellows relating to water repulsion or leaking fabric. So that means your dealer is winging it and doing something not recommended by VW.

 

[Tomdbreeze]

Hi Tom,

Some interesting words there regarding "monitoring the cases raised". Does this imply they don't yet truly recognise the scale of the problem?

Ours went back to a big Cali dealer today for yet further investigation. VW Technical have asked them to strip the bellows to find the part number. They have apparently (VW) agreed the bellows need replacement... ... but not until they know which part I assume.

They couldn't tell the dealer where they might find the part number, just take them out and look everywhere...

Judging by this forum and calibord.de (which has 40 pages on leaking bellows), I did suggest they might be unlucky in this search.

But surely, VW (UK) Technical must know if the part number is on the bellows and if it is, how come no-one else has managed to find one? People compiling lists of the white label tag trying to find a pattern when if only they knew to check the part number!!!!

Hi when they mean monitoring I’m guessing the amount of cases of the replacements being faulty.

The part number for what is fitted when a vehicle leaves the factory is on an internal system ETKA I believe it’s called. This will list every part number when it left the factory. If replacements have been fitted the only people that could tell you would be the dealer that ordered the parts.

Hope that makes sense?

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

Hi when they mean monitoring I’m guessing the amount of cases of the replacements being faulty.

The part number for what is fitted when a vehicle leaves the factory is on an internal system ETKA I believe it’s called. This will list every part number when it left the factory. If replacements have been fitted the only people that could tell you would be the dealer that ordered the parts.

Hope that makes sense?

It makes absolute sense. What doesn't make sense is VW Technical asking the dealer to remove the bellows to tell them the part number which we know isn't present.

I mean the poor technical guy looked bemused at the request. But, process is process!!!!

 

[RockinNRollin]

I mean the poor technical guy looked bemused at the request. But, process is process!!!!

And therein lies the problem. Dealers have to recharge warranty costs to VW and unless dealers follow VW’s processes to the letter, they’ll probably tell them to bear the cost themselves because they went “off piste”.

It’s unbelievably bureaucratic but it’s the way of large organisations like this. I imagine it’s almost as frustrating for the techs doing the work - it’s not like at the end of it they’re proud of doing a good job. Like building boats with a hole in the bottom.

 

[Kayleigh]

The material on the bellows is highly water repellent. I've never seen anything like it. It's a problem with the seams / stitching / pin holes and eventually the water wicks in. Re-proofing isn't going to fix that. It might be that the seams weren't stitched with a seam sealer.

The manuals say not to use any chemicals on the bellows.

Well I wonder if VW were to change the manual and now authorise seam sealant to be used on the new style bellows, would that be an acceptable solution if it solved the leaks?

 

[Corradobrit]

Well I wonder if VW were to change the manual and now authorise seam sealant to be used on the new style bellows, would that be an acceptable solution if it solved the leaks?

Short term solution requiring regular treatments. The stretchy material will continuously develop leaks due to the stresses at the seams.