Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[OooOooTheMonkey]

If you read my post above the one you have hightlighted I say:

"I'd agree with your line of reasoning - keep the pressure on, mails, calls and polite reasoning, awaiting the eventual design change / service bulletin that will resolve the issue."

and in this post I say:

"I'd be pushing for a dealer to be supplying a loan one in the meantime.".

At no point did I advocate "inaction".

A warranty claim that goes to VW to approve is surely more compelling than a letter having a moan though. Once they approve it they’re committing to the cost of the repairs. This will soon mount up if everybody does it and inevitably they’ll give way because the cost of ineffective repairs is not worth it if they’ll have to do it all again. Whether you choose to have the repair work done straight away is up to you, but I would argue a letter complaining could be seen as inaction on their part (because they would prefer to see it that way) than following through on a warranty claim.

 

[Grigio Van Grigio]

That’s fair enough. I have to say I was very impressed with everything when receiving my van back from Breeze. The work was carried out impeccably and with no sign anything’s happened to it other than the bellows look very slightly different.

It does sound like Breeze is a really good dealer. I guess the potential issue I have is I’ll be using my local dealer who didn’t supply my van so I have no current relationship with them. I’ve also had a bad experience with them in the past so I am cautious, although that was 10 years ago so I must remain open minded! They didn’t help themselves when I booked in the warranty work by giving me a date two months away and immediately telling me I’d be charged a £354 investigation fee should they find no issue. It really didn’t feel like great customer service from a dealer who’s pretty much guaranteed three years of serving work and an MoT going forward.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

It does sound like Breeze is a really good dealer. I guess the potential issue I have is I’ll be using my local dealer who didn’t supply my van so I have no current relationship with them. I’ve also had a bad experience with them in the past so I am cautious, although that was 10 years ago so I must remain open minded! They didn’t help themselves when I booked in the warranty work by giving me a date two months away and immediately telling me I’d be charged a £354 investigation fee should they find no issue. It really didn’t feel like great customer service from a dealer who’s pretty much guaranteed three years of serving work and an MoT going forward.

Yes that’s terrible. They’ve essentially told you it’s in their interests not to find an issue because you have to pay them! And given than this issue takes a little bit of work to show itself they may be keen to give up too easily and not have the persistence to test properly.

 

[Grigio Van Grigio]

Yes that’s terrible. They’ve essentially told you it’s in their interests not to find an issue because you have to pay them! And given than this issue takes a little bit of work to show itself they may be keen to give up too easily and not have the persistence to test properly.

Yes, fundamentally, that really is my concern.

 

[Joncali2023!!]

An update on our bellows. We had replacement bellows fitted last week and they have already experienced some rain. Sadly the new replacement bellows leak in exactly the same way as the old ones!! You can actually see the rain water starting to come in through the stitching holes at the bottom of the bellows if you look closely in the photo below.

View attachment 113415

This built up and got wetter quite quickly…

View attachment 113416

And eventually started overflowing into the van. This is exactly what the old bellows did. The new bellows fitted last week were ones that were blocked from ordering by VW and then made available again, however there seems to be no difference in their performance.

I spoke to my dealer yesterday , who registered my issue with vw (leaking bellows ) and my dealer actually said , there’s people getting their bellows replaced with the exact same bellows that also leak.
Customers need to register their fault and await a new replacement design . Vw are well aware of the issue . He believes there will be a recall on these bellows.

 

[dspuk]

A warranty claim that goes to VW to approve is surely more compelling than a letter having a moan though. Once they approve it they’re committing to the cost of the repairs. This will soon mount up if everybody does it and inevitably they’ll give way because the cost of ineffective repairs is not worth it if they’ll have to do it all again. Whether you choose to have the repair work done straight away is up to you, but I would argue a letter complaining could be seen as inaction on their part (because they would prefer to see it that way) than following through on a warranty claim.

They were examples. Do what works for you. If anyone wants to stand outside the dealership yelling and waving a flag, up to them. None of my business. In my experience yelling and shouting gets attention but rarely resolves an issue because it just gets everyones backs up and puts them in defence mode. Not saying it wont work though. Go for it.

Edit - just to add when I worked in OEM Warranty and then later social media the thing that got our attention most was letters and mails to the regional MD. You can find him on LinkedIn.

 

[dspuk]

I spoke to my dealer yesterday , who registered my issue with vw (leaking bellows ) and my dealer actually said , there’s people getting their bellows replaced with the exact same bellows that also leak.
Customers need to register their fault and await a new replacement design . Vw are well aware of the issue . He believes there will be a recall on these bellows.

So, and I'm saying this as vanilla as I can so you don't send back torrents of abuse, the dealer has told you to do what those of us with experience and not in the eye of the storm have been saying on the previous thread since the start?

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

I spoke to my dealer yesterday , who registered my issue with vw (leaking bellows ) and my dealer actually said , there’s people getting their bellows replaced with the exact same bellows that also leak.
Customers need to register their fault and await a new replacement design . Vw are well aware of the issue . He believes there will be a recall on these bellows.

This is great news. Let’s hope it all comes through ok

 

[Joncali2023!!]

So, and I'm saying this as vanilla as I can so you don't send back torrents of abuse, the dealer has told you to do what those of us with experience and not in the eye of the storm have been saying on the previous thread since the start?

Why are you being funny? Do you want to start again and get this thread locked.?
Your reply makes no sense to me ,
The dealer hasn’t told me to do anything, I have two choices which I can make in the next few weeks. Re: bellows .

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

So, and I'm saying this as vanilla as I can so you don't send back torrents of abuse, the dealer has told you to do what those of us with experience and not in the eye of the storm have been saying on the previous thread since the start?

Why are you trying to pick a fight? This place is worse than a school playground!

 

[Joncali2023!!]

So, and I'm saying this as vanilla as I can so you don't send back torrents of abuse, the dealer has told you to do what those of us with experience and not in the eye of the storm have been saying on the previous thread since the start?

There’s just no need for this guys attitude, he had to bring previous issues up again.

I would seriously love to see this guy at a vw festival.

 

[Andy C Berks.]

I spoke to my dealer yesterday , who registered my issue with vw (leaking bellows ) and my dealer actually said , there’s people getting their bellows replaced with the exact same bellows that also leak.
Customers need to register their fault and await a new replacement design . Vw are well aware of the issue . He believes there will be a recall on these bellows.

You are VW Liverpool too aren’t you ?
I had an email back Monday from VW Customer Services apologising for my experience with the bellows. They stopped short of acknowledging any sort of widespread issue of course. Went on to say that I would hear from Liverpool VW Tuesday (i.e. yesterday) - I heard nothing! But Customer Services have promised me a follow up call today, so I look forward to that.
Will update further as I hear more but from your experience yesterday it does sound like Liverpool have at least moved on from their initial stance to me of a few weeks ago that the bellows are showerproof only.

 

[Joncali2023!!]

You are VW Liverpool too aren’t you ?
I had an email back Monday from VW Customer Services apologising for my experience with the bellows. They stopped short of acknowledging any sort of widespread issue of course. Went on to say that I would hear from Liverpool VW Tuesday (i.e. yesterday) - I heard nothing! But Customer Services have promised me a follow up call today, so I look forward to that.
Will update further as I hear more but from your experience yesterday it does sound like Liverpool have at least moved on from their initial stance to me of a few weeks ago that the bellows are showerproof only.

Yes I’m Liverpool too.
Will keep you updated on my situation going forward too

 

[Andy C Berks.]

An update on our bellows. We had replacement bellows fitted last week and they have already experienced some rain. Sadly the new replacement bellows leak in exactly the same way as the old ones!! You can actually see the rain water starting to come in through the stitching holes at the bottom of the bellows if you look closely in the photo below.

View attachment 113415

This built up and got wetter quite quickly…

View attachment 113416

And eventually started overflowing into the van. This is exactly what the old bellows did. The new bellows fitted last week were ones that were blocked from ordering by VW and then made available again, however there seems to be no difference in their performance.

So frustrating. Curious if you had a tag with the bellows and if the part number differs from the 03S / T6 version attached to most of the recent MY2023 vans ?

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

So frustrating. Curious if you had a tag with the bellows and if the part number differs from the 03S / T6 version attached to most of the recent MY2023 vans ?

No tag unfortunately. But I did ask before replacement and they told me the part number was the same. When I collected the van the service person also said that VW are releasing the bellows after extra quality control, so sounds like identical part but someone checked it more closely before it got sent out. To be fair I would say it is a bit better than the original canvas. There are fewer pin holes visible at the base so I think perhaps it is a slightly better standard, but it still leaks almost as badly.

 

[Joncali2023!!]

I’ve just got a call from the customer services manager who pinged up the conversation between vw Liverpool and vw Germany .
Vw Germany say you are to expect a few droplets through the canvas , and if this doesn’t improve after time , get back in touch.
Looks like vw Germany aren’t interested either , there’s no redesign or recall on the horizon.
I’ll most certainly be rejecting mine now!

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

I’ve just got a call from the customer services manager who pinged up the conversation between vw Liverpool and vw Germany .
Vw Germany say you are to expect a few droplets through the canvas , and if this doesn’t improve after time , get back in touch.
Looks like vw Germany aren’t interested either , there’s no redesign or recall on the horizon.
I’ll most certainly be rejecting mine now!

This is most disappointing….!

 

[Corradobrit]

Looks like vw Germany aren’t interested either , there’s no redesign or recall on the horizon.
I’ll most certainly be rejecting mine now!

That doesn't mean there is no redesign in the works. A few droplets isn't an issue its the torrent that people have photographed and got on video that is the problem.
Time for you to take the opportunity to reject as this is not going to be a quick fix.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

That doesn't mean there is no redesign in the works. A few droplets isn't an issue its the torrent that people have photographed and got on video that is the problem.
Time for you to take the opportunity to reject as this is not going to be a quick fix.

It’s a real shame but yes I don’t see from this how it’ll be fixed quickly. It sounds like it’s going to take an extremely long time and even then I’m not convinced a fix is guaranteed to come at all. It should do, but I don’t think anybody can be certain that it will definitely happen. I’m keen to hear what my dealer has to say about this given that they’ve tried to fix the issue and it hasn’t worked. I’m not sure what else they can offer me without something forthcoming from VW.

 

[Corradobrit]

It’s a real shame but yes I don’t see from this how it’ll be fixed quickly. It sounds like it’s going to take an extremely long time and even then I’m not convinced a fix is guaranteed to come at all. It should do, but I don’t think anybody can be certain that it will definitely happen. I’m keen to hear what my dealer has to say about this given that they’ve tried to fix the issue and it hasn’t worked. I’m not sure what else they can offer me without something forthcoming from VW.

In other news VW are releasing a new California. Hate to say it but I really hope they leak as badly too. I'm curious to see how it's constructed vs the T6.1, which might give an indication how ours can be made water tight.

 

[Joncali2023!!]

In other news VW are releasing a new California. Hate to say it but I really hope they leak as badly too. I'm curious to see how it's constructed vs the T6.1, which might give an indication how ours can be made water tight.

The t7 multivan based one ?

 

[ParachuteMan]

As part of my purchasing process, I will seek a pop-top cover gratis as part of the deal, for use in wet weather. I dont want to be back and forth to the dealer having identical bellows and canvas fitted. Mind you, if I order in early Sep, build week is current forecast as 11 Oct, so maybe some design rework will be incoroo

 

[Jabberwocky]

Part numbers. Pop top canvas.
I have looked thru this thread and for the old thread (now closed) and cannot find any ref to the part number for this leaking canvas or the new variant. I am sure it was on the now closed thread. Anyway, I have just had a conversation with my dealer who wants to book me in for a replacement canvas with the Part Number W7LA 875 059 C7 MH. I am sure I saw some not very good comments about a test (in Germany?) with this that did not go so well. Am I correct? And if so what should I be saying to my dealer? I don't want to agree to the new canvas install only to be still faced with leaks.
All thoughts, comments and suggestions welcome.
Rik

 

[Joncali2023!!]

Part numbers. Pop top canvas.
I have looked thru this thread and for the old thread (now closed) and cannot find any ref to the part number for this leaking canvas or the new variant. I am sure it was on the now closed thread. Anyway, I have just had a conversation with my dealer who wants to book me in for a replacement canvas with the Part Number W7LA 875 059 C7 MH. I am sure I saw some not very good comments about a test (in Germany?) with this that did not go so well. Am I correct? And if so what should I be saying to my dealer? I don't want to agree to the new canvas install only to be still faced with leaks.
All thoughts, comments and suggestions welcome.
Rik

Yes this canvas still leaks…
A few guys in U.K. have had theirs replaced with this one too.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Yes this canvas still leaks…
A few guys in U.K. have had theirs replaced with this one too.

Thanks your reply. Are you able to say if VW plan a more robust response to this leaking problem? The prospect of having the canvas replaced on my 6.1 only to have it still leak is not a problem I anticipated when I moved from a T6 to a T6.1 when the canvas in my T6 never leaked/no wicking in the 4 1/2 years of ownership/use (approx 250 nights), which included some pretty strong wind and rain episodes. (We always slept "up top")