Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[Andy C Berks.]

This appears to be the internal VW guidance issued last week

 

[CamperFam]

"Avoiding spraying on the bellow sides".

Yes. Because rain is often known to have an innate fear of the sides of roof bellows and wouldn't ever go near them in normal conditions....

 

[Andy C Berks.]

"Avoiding spraying on the bellow sides".

Yes. Because rain is often known to have an innate fear of the sides of roof bellows and wouldn't ever go near them in normal conditions....

Agreed, not very clear is it about the test to be conducted, as I took that to mean don’t spray the hose directly at the bellows but so it sort of loops and falls like rain. It also doesn’t tell them how long to run the test for - as we know some leak pretty much straight away, others take a few hours (I have experienced both with my bellows).

 

[RockinNRollin]

I’m not sure how I feel about the actual text in the bulletin. The first bit talks about “extreme” weather but the rest talks about simulating “light to medium rainfall”. Bit contradictory.

January 2024 will be unusually interesting for some Cali owners.

 

[portofinopoll]

Thanks for your comments guys, in particular Andy, appreciate the copy of Internal VW Memo, clearly our dealer has not taken this on board. Will pursue Adrian again tomorrow in an effort to bring some clarity to the situation. We provided video evidence of leakage back in March or April, and were approved for a replacement bellows when available. It was clear there was a design or manufacturing fault (Both maybe) which would take time to overcome. After waiting patiently for the resolution & missing out on promised adventures with our Grandchildren for the whole 2023 season, thought we were reaching a satisfactory conclusion only to find they intended to fit a unit that has already been superceded. One can only therefore conclude the 03S is not the answer. VW, please adopt a more open & honest attitude & make our Vehicle fit for purpose. Feel short-changed by you.

 

[Jeaniethecali]

Was booked at Dealers to have replacement Bellows fitted to our March 23 Ocean yesterday. Transpired the Tag was 03S so I declined to go ahead. Have been attempting to get hold of Adrian Burns of EO to discuss
without success just now. Dealer seems to think 03S is latest solution!

I was in the same position with mine 2 weeks ago. Luckily the service manager at the van centre didn't believe the VW technical team when they told him the 03S bellows where the latest ones. He pushed back until they sent a set of 04S bellows a week later.

 

[portofinopoll]

How is new bellows performing Jeannie?

 

[Kayleigh]

This appears to be the internal VW guidance issued last week

“The test should be conducted from a distance of approximately two to three metres with a sprinkler hose attachment, avoiding directly aiming water at the bellow sides.”

Looks like they took note of my test setup…

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

“The test should be conducted from a distance of approximately two to three metres with a sprinkler hose attachment, avoiding directly aiming water at the bellow sides.”

Looks like they took note of my test setup…

I hope you patented it.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

This appears to be the internal VW guidance issued last week

View attachment 117044

View attachment 117045

I think the wording of this bulletin is bordering on insulting to California owners. It emphasises that the bellows are not completely waterproof and that this is clearly stated in the user manual. It implies customers expectations are wrong in the first place and that they should be accepting water ingress as normal. And then it states to only test the bellows in light to moderate rain conditions with no specified time limit. It will be easy for faulty bellows to pass this test and then be determined as fit for purpose when they’re not. This has VW trying to wriggle out of this without providing a fit for purpose product written all over it. It sounds like it designed to fob owners off until they shut up and go away.

 

[RockinNRollin]

I think the wording of this bulletin is bordering on insulting to California owners. It emphasises that the bellows are not completely waterproof and that this is clearly stated in the user manual. It implies customers expectations are wrong in the first place and that they should be accepting water ingress as normal. And then it states to only test the bellows in light to moderate rain conditions with no specified time limit. It will be easy for faulty bellows to pass this test and then be determined as fit for purpose when they’re not. This has VW trying to wriggle out of this without providing a fit for purpose product written all over it. It sounds like it designed to fob owners off until they shut up and go away.

It might all be academic if the "new new new new" bellows ARE actually fit for purpose (and evidence so far the 04S at least are fit for purpose, so one would hope the Jan 24 iteration, whether that's 04S, 04S-C, 04S-C2 or 05S, is at least as good).

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

It might all be academic if the "new new new new" bellows ARE actually fit for purpose (and evidence so far the 04S at least are fit for purpose, so one would hope the Jan 24 iteration, whether that's 04S, 04S-C, 04S-C2 or 05S, is at least as good).

Yes that’s true. I think I’ve had enough of the saga now and feeling a bit dejected and pessimistic.

 

[RockinNRollin]

Yes that’s true. I think I’ve had enough of the saga now and feeling a bit dejected and pessimistic.

I hear you, but I also at least take some comfort that VW are visibly doing something - they're not just parroting the "it's not waterproof" line and forcing everyone to stick with leaking bellows. I would like to think we have light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[Corradobrit]

I hear you, but I also at least take some comfort that VW are visibly doing something - they're not just parroting the "it's not waterproof" line and forcing everyone to stick with leaking bellows. I would like to think we have light at the end of the tunnel.

Mine, and many others with 03S, aren't even showerproof, let alone waterproof. Really, VW have no leg to stand on, although they are trying to game the system based on that technical advisory.

 

[Barry Chuckle]

I agree it's not waterproof statement is nonsense, it's no different to a car company saying their sunroof isn't waterproof when closed! Also if VW are saying owners need to manage their expectations does that also mean the warranty won't cover the inevitable damage water ingress causes?????

On a more positive note I'm pleased to report that my 04S bellows have been opened for 3 or 4 days with varying rain and there doesn't seem to be any water ingress.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

I agree it's not waterproof statement is nonsense, it's no different to a car company saying their sunroof isn't waterproof when closed! Also if VW are saying owners need to manage their expectations does that also mean the warranty won't cover the inevitable damage water ingress causes?????

On a more positive note I'm pleased to report that my 04S bellows have been opened for 3 or 4 days with varying rain and there doesn't seem to be any water ingress.

This is really great news! Let’s hope it’s repeated with other people’s experiences. Can you see any visible differences in the bellows construction?

 

[Barry Chuckle]

This is really great news! Let’s hope it’s repeated with other people’s experiences. Can you see any visible differences in the bellows construction?

This is my first ever Cali so I can't help you there sorry.

It's not been raining particularly viciously so not definitive proof yet but positive, it's also been out in sub zero temperatures with the bellows open too.

 

[RockinNRollin]

This is my first ever Cali so I can't help you there sorry.

It's not been raining particularly viciously so not definitive proof yet but positive, it's also been out in sub zero temperatures with the bellows open too.

We really need a nice low pressure system to test properly - think tomorrow looks "moist", depending on where you are in the country.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

I agree it's not waterproof statement is nonsense, it's no different to a car company saying their sunroof isn't waterproof when closed! Also if VW are saying owners need to manage their expectations does that also mean the warranty won't cover the inevitable damage water ingress causes?????

On a more positive note I'm pleased to report that my 04S bellows have been opened for 3 or 4 days with varying rain and there doesn't seem to be any water ingress.

On your 04S bellows, is there like a rubber insert between the seam at the very bottom which runs around the van?

That was an addition to 03S at some point and seemed to eliminate leakage along that seam.

What remained an issue was the other seams like the horizontal one underneath the front half-moon opening.

Can you tell on the 04S if that has also had some kind of additional rubber / foam added to it?

 

[myvanrodney]

On your 04S bellows, is there like a rubber insert between the seam at the very bottom which runs around the van?

That was an addition to 03S at some point and seemed to eliminate leakage along that seam.

What remained an issue was the other seams like the horizontal one underneath the front half-moon opening.

Can you tell on the 04S if that has also had some kind of additional rubber / foam added to it?

Just to add to the collection of data on here;

I have an 03S (02/10/23) with a round 'A' sticker on it. My bellows have this rubber seam around the bottom of the bellows at the junction with the roof opening.

Ive looked at the horizontal seam below the front half-moon window, and it appears to be 'sealed/glued' to an intermediate dark grey layer of fabric (see the reflective mark on the photo).

Hope this helps with the forensics

 

[Justinitus1972]

Just to add to the collection of data on here;

I have an 03S (02/10/23) with a round 'A' sticker on it. My bellows have this rubber seam around the bottom of the bellows at the junction with the roof opening.

Ive looked at the horizontal seam below the front half-moon window, and it appears to be 'sealed/glued' to an intermediate dark grey layer of fabric (see the reflective mark on the photo).

Hope this helps with the forensics

View attachment 117105

Is that not just the outside mesh seam? Mine is very similar iirc, built May 23.

 

[myvanrodney]

Probably


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[mintyman]

We really need a nice low pressure system to test properly - think tomorrow looks "moist", depending on where you are in the country.

I like the word 'moist'

 

[RockinNRollin]

I like the word 'moist'

So do I. I try to "insert" it into conversation wherever possible, even if it does make colleagues a little bit uncomfortable.

 

[Ilikesleeping]

I spoke to my dealership today as I’m still waiting for delivery and had a few things to discuss. I asked him about the leaking bellows and he said it’s all fixed and no need to worry! He told me that it was all down to the thread and that’s the main change in the new bellows. They had used too much wax on the thread so it didn’t expand when wet. Now they have changed it, there should be no issues. Now I know that there have been other changes in the latest version as discussed here, but no one has mentioned anything about the thread type recently. He’s a sales guy after all so I’m taking what he said with a pinch of salt, but he did sound very well informed and confident in the fix.