Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[Schadenfroid]

Looking for other peoples' experiences with the new double lined pop top roof (the one that is grey outside / cream inside), and any potential solutions to the problem of leaking though the seams and fabric.

In the last week we've had complaints from customers on all four of our March 2023 Oceans that the new style pop tops have leaked, mostly though the seams in heavy rain or constant drizzle. Each of them has the new double lined lined pop top roof (grey outside / cream inside). It's not a problem that we had with our "old style" 2022 vehicles (the ones with the single grey pop top fabric) - I think it might be an issue with the new design.

I've read on the forums that putting the pop tops through a few wet / dry cycles will sort the issue as the fibres tighten up - has anyone experienced this with the new style pop top?

If not, has anyone tried something like a Nikwax application to improve waterproofness?

 

[Jimmylondon07]

Already a thread here mate.

2023 Ocean leaking roof fabric

So the issues with our brand new Cali continue. After having to have a brand fridge fitted as the original never worked, we have now discovered that a seam in the roof fabric leaks water when it is raining. Yesterday was the first day away in the van, when we have encountered rain. Whilst sat...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

 

[Schadenfroid]

Thanks, I did search, didn't see that one

10 pages......

 

[Jimmylondon07]

Thanks, I did search, didn't see that one

10 pages......

And counting

 

[Corradobrit]

This problem is gonna be a biggie. There is a design and/or manufacture issue and it appears to affect all MY23 bellows with the new fabric. 4 out of 4 Cali's with leaks is damning.

 

[RockinNRollin]

I also assume with these being hire vehicles they've had umpteen wettings of the canvas too, so the theory they improve with a few wet cycles I assume can now go in the bin . . .

 

[Corradobrit]

I also assume with these being hire vehicles they've had umpteen wettings of the canvas too, so the theory they improve with a few wet cycles I assume can now go in the bin . . .

I don't think that was even a possibility with this new 100% synthetic fabric. If the thread is also synthetic then game over.

 

[andyinluton]

I don't think that was even a possibility with this new 100% synthetic fabric. If the thread is also synthetic then game over.

The outer fabric hasn't changed from earlier T6.1

One possibility suggested on another forum is that they have actually now made the stitching thread waterproof & that its that not expanding to fill the holes thats causing the problem.

 

[Corradobrit]

The outer fabric hasn't changed from earlier T6.1

Not so sure about that. The new fabric is elasticated.

 

[Corradobrit]

I think VW have a plan. The leaky poptop makes a perfect way to maintain the water level in your onboard pool

 

[andyinluton]

Not so sure about that. The new fabric is elasticated.

I'm pretty sure it's exactly the same with the exception of the additional lining layer.
Early T6 ( pre- panoramic opening) was different & T5.1 was different again, but all tops with the panoramic opening have had the same external material.

 

[Camperfamily]

Having spent some time at a dealer earlier this week comparing the old and new bellows, I’m reasonably sure the ‘external’ layer is different between the old and new bellows. Whilst not a scientific approach, they felt quite different to the touch.

First pic of old, second of new.

 

[Corradobrit]

Having spent some time at a dealer earlier this week comparing the old and new bellows, I’m reasonably sure the ‘external’ layer is different between the old and new bellows. Whilst not a scientific approach, they felt quite different to the touch.

First pic of old, second of new.

View attachment 112006

View attachment 112008

That confirms my thoughts too.

 

[Camperfamily]

Looking at these photos again, the top horizontal stitching (annotated below) seems to be a mm or two lower than on the old bellows.

Linking to a theory posted by @andyinluton a few days ago - could this lower stitching, combined with the different inner material (since this appears to be the material folded back on itself) be enough to create a larger ledge (compared to the previous bellows), which then allows the water to flow inside?

 

[Corradobrit]

Looking at these photos again, the top horizontal stitching (annotated below) seems to be a mm or two lower than on the old bellows.

Linking to a theory posted by @andyinluton a few days ago - could this lower stitching, combined with the different inner material (since this appears to be the material folded back on itself) be enough to create a larger ledge (compared to the previous bellows), which then allows the water to flow inside?

View attachment 112009

It's not the design of the stitch line per se, although it may be contributing to the problem across the bottom of the window. Other seams including vertical ones are also allowing water through.

 

[Trojax]

Having spent some time at a dealer earlier this week comparing the old and new bellows, I’m reasonably sure the ‘external’ layer is different between the old and new bellows. Whilst not a scientific approach, they felt quite different to the touch.

First pic of old, second of new.

View attachment 112006

View attachment 112008

Looking at the two pictures the new one is a much finer material, but the big difference is the stitching the new one is a smaller tighter stitch.....

 

[Andy C Berks.]

Looking at these photos again, the top horizontal stitching (annotated below) seems to be a mm or two lower than on the old bellows.

Linking to a theory posted by @andyinluton a few days ago - could this lower stitching, combined with the different inner material (since this appears to be the material folded back on itself) be enough to create a larger ledge (compared to the previous bellows), which then allows the water to flow inside?

View attachment 112009

That was exactly my thought the other day when you posted the other pics, that the newer stitching is very slightly lower. My new leaky bellows look the same as your newer ones in these pics. It may just create enough of a difference for the water to stick around rather than run off.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Here’s a photo of my bellows when they were leaking on the inside. This was in light to moderate rain. The fabric really absorbs water at the front but at the sides it’s largely sheltered in low wind conditions. You can see this in the photo where the wet material is darker. I wonder if the fabric itself is not wicking the water properly and around the area of that dodgy seam it’s seeping through. When I put the roof down the canvas material felt quite heavy, certainly a lot heavier than when it’s dry. It seems to soak up water a bit like a towel. Does the old fabric soak up water in this way when wet? It looks a shinier material. If the older fabric doesn’t soak up the water in the first place the seam may be irrelevant as the water may never reach it in sufficient quantities.

 

[RockinNRollin]

When we hired a MY22 with the old bellows, we had a lot of rain; I don't recall it ever feeling heavy or saturated.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

When we hired a MY22 with the old bellows, we had a lot of rain; I don't recall it ever feeling heavy or saturated.

I’m leaning towards the material being the main thing at fault here. That would explain why it took around an hour for the leaking to become obvious as it took that long to properly saturate the material. That would also explain why it’s come through some vertical seams and also on the sides for some people. If correct it would leak wherever the outer fabric is eventually 100% saturated.

 

[RockinNRollin]

I’m leaning towards the material being the main thing at fault here. That would explain why it took around an hour for the leaking to become obvious as it took that long to properly saturate the material. That would also explain why it’s come through some vertical seams and also on the sides for some people. If correct it would leak wherever the outer fabric is eventually 100% saturated.

I'm not sure about that; our van got absolutely hammered with driving rain over the weekend with the roof up for hours on end and as far as I can tell, no leaks at all from the back or sides (tail to the wind so the front didn't get anything) - the material (on my van at least) seems to be fully waterproof. There was a bit of damp here and there but I think that was condensation on the metal frame of the roof - if it leaked as spectacularly as others have had it, I'd have known.

 

[ivan & jill]

We had new Calis in 2018, 2021 and now 2023. Each of them had different bellows fabric but only this latest one leaks significantly. The 2021 model had a more open weave fabric and in the morning we could see pinpricks of daylight like mini stars coming through. Which may explain how it could wick moisture if the bedclothes were touching it and, I guess, why it was a relatively shortlived item. I like the idea of the new two layered fabric and the lighter interior colour. If only VW can fix the leaking seams!

 

[andrew bazeley]

This revelation I find quite shocking! I've had my Cali since 2008, and - although I admit to carelessly trapping and splitting (and easily repairing) the pop-up canvas occasionally - there has NEVER been a leak. Why do they change the fabric and construction when the old method worked perfectly?

 

[Corradobrit]

This revelation I find quite shocking! I've had my Cali since 2008, and - although I admit to carelessly trapping and splitting (and easily repairing) the pop-up canvas occasionally - there has NEVER been a leak. Why do they change the fabric and construction when the old method worked perfectly?

It's designed to be more water resistant and not wick on contact. Unfortunately the implementation has let it down. VW will get it sorted. There are enough examples in the UK and in the EU to force the issue. Unlike the collapsing poptop hydraulic system, water infiltration is not something they can brush off.

 

[NorCal]

This revelation I find quite shocking! I've had my Cali since 2008, and - although I admit to carelessly trapping and splitting (and easily repairing) the pop-up canvas occasionally - there has NEVER been a leak. Why do they change the fabric and construction when the old method worked perfectly?

To reduce production costs. Vehicles are designed and manufactured to a price, not a standard.