Leisure batteries.

[Emil Silenhag]

Different Model numbers, so different batteries as far as I am concerned. I cannot see a manufacture selling the same battery into 2 different markets that are exactly the same. They could have sold it as a multi-purpose battery but they didn’t.
The fact that they have similar specifications does not mean they are the same internally.

I can see a manufacture having the same battery under different labels and different model numbers. It looks good in there product line. They make more money. Logical to me. Of course, I can’t know for sure, but I haven’t found anything that speak against it...

 

[Emil Silenhag]

Not according to Varta's website...

LA80 https://www.varta-automotive.com/en-gb/products/varta-professional-dual-purpose-agm/840-080-080

4x cycle life, low self discharge - ideal for leisure use

F21 https://www.varta-automotive.com/en-gb/products/varta-silver-dynamic-agm/580-901-080

3x cycle life, high cold cranking current (for engine starting)

Size, current capacity and voltage are the same, very different inside.

Each to their own, but I know which I'd fit.

4x and 3x. It’s not the same comparison:

Long-lasting: up to four times the cyclic stability of conventional flooded batteries (up to 400 cycles + 50% DOD)

3 times the cycle life of conventional batteries.

All fancy words from Varta.
And by the way, convert to Lithium if you want the best...

 

[Hamish74440]

Good morning everyone. Following on from hours of research and reading most of the leisure battery posts on forums here, I just ordered 2x LA80 from an online supplier here in France. They sent me 2x F21 instead! I contacted their customer service who assured me (not convinced me) that they are the same battery and won’t replace/reimburse - but that’s another story- I have plenty of time on my hands to deal with that if necessary.
I cannot get a response from VARTA which is not surprising at the minute. So, has anyone had a definitive answer/response directly from VARTA?
I’m inclined to the view that the LA80 and the F21 are different as both are shown on the Varta website and the website of many online retailers.
Thanks for any help

 

[WelshGas]

Good morning everyone. Following on from hours of research and reading most of the leisure battery posts on forums here, I just ordered 2x LA80 from an online supplier here in France. They sent me 2x F21 instead! I contacted their customer service who assured me (not convinced me) that they are the same battery and won’t replace/reimburse - but that’s another story- I have plenty of time on my hands to deal with that if necessary.
I cannot get a response from VARTA which is not surprising at the minute. So, has anyone had a definitive answer/response directly from VARTA?
I’m inclined to the view that the LA80 and the F21 are different as both are shown on the Varta website and the website of many online retailers.
Thanks for any help

All I can say is if you compare the specifications then they seem the same, but they are priced differently in the UK and also they had different warranty periods, 4 yrs for the LA80 and 3 yrs for the F21.
I queried this with my supplier and basically they said they are the same but if the LA80 is used as an Engine battery the warranty is void and vice versa.

 

[TripleBee]

They give the same dimensions and power, if you look on the Varta website, but the F21 only gets info about starting engine and start/stop, whereas the LA80 gets info about leisure and start/stop.

What is the price difference? If the LA80 is cheaper and you got the F21, I would not really bother.
If the price of the F21 is lower, I'd definately ask for a refund or a change to the LA80 (as you ordered those).

 

[Hamish74440]

Thanks . I agree with everything you say. They were the same price on their website - on most other websites the LA80 is more expensive. Should have raised alarm bells, but being Scottish ......
I have already been in touch with them regarding replacement /refund but they won’t budge from the “ they are the same” comment. I will deal with that.

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[Hamish74440]

All I can say is if you compare the specifications then they seem the same, but they are priced differently in the UK and also they had different warranty periods, 4 yrs for the LA80 and 3 yrs for the F21.
I queried this with my supplier and basically they said they are the same but if the LA80 is used as an Engine battery the warranty is void and vice versa.

Thanks Welshgas.
I agree . I am concerned about the warranty issue. They are priced differently here too on MOST online retailers except the one I bought from - they were the same price.

 

[TripleBee]

Actually they are not the same, as Varta sells them both.

What does your invoice tell you? If it says LA80, and you received the F21, you could threaten with legal steps, as they send you a different product than you ordered.
How did you pay? Did you pay by PayPal, Visa, ...?
By visa or Paypal, you are covered for online purchases.
If you, let's say, ordered an Ocean, and you received a Coast, I don't think they would get away with: Hey, it's a California, from VW, they are the same?

 

[Emil Silenhag]

LA 80 and F21 are the same battery under different labels. This according to my source, a battery importer here I Norway. I’ve written about this here earlier. To me this is also logical and I live by that. I’ve used both LA80 and F21. Haven’t noticed any difference...

 

[Hamish74440]

Hi Emil
Thanks for the response. I have read your previous posts and many others and I am still not convinced. I have different views from different online retailers but as yet, nothing definitive directly from Varta and unfortunately unable to contact them by phone during this current situation. I agree they are the same size, same weight, similar specs BUT 2 totally different descriptions /uses and different price points. It doesn’t add up.

 

[Hamish74440]

What does your invoice tell you? If it says LA80, and you received the F21, you could threaten with legal steps, as they send you a different product than you ordered.
How did you pay? Did you pay by PayPal, Visa, ...?
By visa or Paypal, you are covered for online purchases.
If you, let's say, ordered an Ocean, and you received a Coast, I don't think they would get away with: Hey, it's a California, from VW, they are the same?
[/QUOTE]


I like the analogy.

Yes, the order form and subsequent documentation quite clearly state LA 80. The customer service has been very poor, the online customer service “chatdesk” cut me off yesterday after I sent them the pics of the descriptions from the VARTA website. They wouldn’t/couldn’t direct me to any official info regarding warranty etc. etc.
Next step is to learn all about my consumer rights in France and go down that route if I can’t get satisfactory answers.
Will keep you posted!

 

[campandfly]

If you look on the "-" of the battery you will see something like 17 07: like 17 on top of 07.
upper 2 cyphers are the week of production and the under 2 are the year.
If the lowest number is 07, or even 06, then those batteries are over 12 years old. Then it will be "normal" if they are not that good anymore.
A normal starter battery is normal to be changed about 6 years. Earlier is not that good, later is better.

My Negative terminal has 2 numbers etched into them 15 over 15. So I assume that is the 15th week of 2015.
Thanks for explaining that. My vehicle was delivered in April 2015 so that means my battery was almost fresh off the production line.
This information is also good when ordering or looking to purchase new ones, to make sure its not old stock.
I am thinking of removing my batteries and using their remaining life for a solar project and installing new ones in the Cali.

 

[Hamish74440]

To update, I have subsequently had a reply from Varta Germany directly

Die beiden Produkte sind sich sehr ähnlich. Allerdings ist die F21 eine
reine Starterbatterie, während die LA80 Verbraucher- und Starterbatterie
gleichermaßen ist. Der letzteren sollte Sie den Vorzug geben.

Roughly translated - although they are similar, F21 is a starter battery , LA80 is a “consumer” (leisure) and starter battery and I should use the latter.

In discussion with the original supplier to return/refund.....

Hope it helps other users.

 

[TripleBee]

If you can show them the mail from Varta, they should or give you the LA80's for the same price, or give you a full refund.

 

[Hamish74440]

Yes, they should but they are being exceptionally difficult about it so far. I have only received the response from Varta today and sent it to the supplíer. We shall see how it goes.

 

[campandfly]

4x and 3x. It’s not the same comparison:

Long-lasting: up to four times the cyclic stability of conventional flooded batteries (up to 400 cycles + 50% DOD)

3 times the cycle life of conventional batteries.

All fancy words from Varta.
And by the way, convert to Lithium if you want the best...

Have you converted to Lithium?? I would be very interested in that for my T5.1 SE

 

[Sp0_0k]

Not according to Varta's website...

LA80 https://www.varta-automotive.com/en-gb/products/varta-professional-dual-purpose-agm/840-080-080

4x cycle life, low self discharge - ideal for leisure use

F21 https://www.varta-automotive.com/en-gb/products/varta-silver-dynamic-agm/580-901-080

3x cycle life, high cold cranking current (for engine starting)

Size, current capacity and voltage are the same, very different inside.

Each to their own, but I know which I'd fit.

Well, a deep cycle battery of the same capacity rating should be heavier as the lead plates are thicker. If you look at both battery's weight they are exactly the same. I have an insanely strong feeling those are just different stickers on exactly the same batteries.

 

[Sp0_0k]

To update, I have subsequently had a reply from Varta Germany directly


Roughly translated - although they are similar, F21 is a starter battery , LA80 is a “consumer” (leisure) and starter battery and I should use the latter.

In discussion with the original supplier to return/refund.....

Hope it helps other users.

You do imagine who usually answers such email requests, right? Definitely not the engineers
Sometimes marketing is going pretty far even into manuals.

 

[Brownbetty]

Hi everyone back to my post on leisure batteries, here's my problem.
I have two new L/Batteries not two yrs old yet & a solar panel from Rodger on the roof yet last wk we were away for only three days Friday Saturday Sunday on the Saturday night the heating wouldn't work, the control panel showed 12.2 I think, we use the TV for abt two hours, fridge on & one light the big one but not when the TV's on.
I had problems in the summer with the fridge going off, but found out from here abt that it might be a 50amp fuse on the L/Battery & sure enough it was, so what could be the problem now.
Here are some pics from today of the control panel, first one nothing on, nxt fridge & heater, nxt F/H/TV, last nothing on.

 

[Emil Silenhag]

The problem is batteries goes empty?

Could be many things. You have to look at it irl to diagnose it…That’s my experience…specially when there are non-factory installed equipment…

 

[yossarian]

Hi everyone back to my post on leisure batteries, here's my problem.
I have two new L/Batteries not two yrs old yet & a solar panel from Rodger on the roof yet last wk we were away for only three days Friday Saturday Sunday on the Saturday night the heating wouldn't work, the control panel showed 12.2 I think, we use the TV for abt two hours, fridge on & one light the big one but not when the TV's on.
I had problems in the summer with the fridge going off, but found out from here abt that it might be a 50amp fuse on the L/Battery & sure enough it was, so what could be the problem now.
Here are some pics from today of the control panel, first one nothing on, nxt fridge & heater, nxt F/H/TV, last nothing on.

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Useful stuff to investigate and post here:

• Voltage of both batteries measured at the terminals (not the cables)
• Voltage drop with a reasonable load like your fridge. Measured load on your panel.

Ideally unplug your solar during these tests (there should be a quick connect on the roof) or do this with low solar insolation.

Sadly just one deep discharge can destroy lead acid batteries.

 

[Brownbetty]

Thanks, I'll have to look into

Useful stuff to investigate and post here:

• Voltage of both batteries measured at the terminals (not the cables)
• Voltage drop with a reasonable load like your fridge. Measured load on your panel.

Ideally unplug your solar during these tests (there should be a quick connect on the roof) or do this with low solar insolation.

Sadly just one deep discharge can destroy lead acid batteries.

Useful stuff to investigate and post here:

• Voltage of both batteries measured at the terminals (not the cables)
• Voltage drop with a reasonable load like your fridge. Measured load on your panel.

Ideally unplug your solar during these tests (there should be a quick connect on the roof) or do this with low solar insolation.

Sadly just one deep discharge can destroy lead acid batteries.

Thanks for the reply, I'll have to look into it further, this morning the battery was back to full with the solar panel going away for four days without EHU so see how things go. Thanks again