Leisure Battery charging

[WelshGas]

Some of us Beach owners do not have mains hookup installed, maybe it's standard in UK but not in other markets. Mine is a German van. We are never told by dealers to hook up once a month. My single 2014 leisure battery is still going strong.

Well it's mentioned in the UK California Handbook.
Basically the advent of Smart Alternators and Regenerative Braking, all part of the BlueMotion Emissions strategy as found on Euro 5 & 6 compliant vehicles cannot charge the Leisure Batteries to a 100% of their capacity. They will work without this Mains Charging BUT their overall lifespan will be reduced and their capability of Wild Camping for days will be less.
Your choice. Plenty of information on the Forum and elsewhere.

 

[Calimili]

I’ve just responded to your post!! Thanks!!


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I'll reply here as the other thread is about Air-Safe. Basically if you can't get the Van to a power point for charging, you need to get the power point to the van.
You need a portable source of energy, i.e. a battery, that you can charge in your flat, and then bring down to the van to charge the leisure batteries. This is to charge the remaining 10-20% that the alternator is not charging as WelshGas just explained above. Of course you can charge them from a lower state of charge too it will just require you to bring up and down the battery to charge in the flat a few times.
My method is a bit inefficient but it works. It is inefficient because the process itself of transforming 12V to 240V or vice-versa consumes energy. In this case it is irrelevant because at home you have as much energy as you want from the wall sockets.
Additionally my research has found out, in order to charge the leisure battery "intelligently" you need an "intelligent" 4 stage charger, particularly to top up the last 10-20% without damaging the leisure batteries and prolong their lifetime. These intelligent charges are cheap when they work out of 240V, like the C-tek and others that you plug in the wall and from the 240V they charge 12v batteries intelligently. Intelligent chargers that work from a 12V source to charge a 12V battery are 5 times more expensive if you want a proper one. The van itself has a 240V to 12V charger that is already connected to the outside blue CEE plug.
So , and I finally come to the point, I bought a battery, that I can carry and charge at home. I bought then a pure sine Inverter that transforms the 12V of the battery into 240V and I connected it to the battery . The inverter has a socket in which you can plug in any 240v items, paying attention to the power limits. This way I can bring battery and connected inverter to the van, plug the van into the inverter socket and it then start charging the leisure batteries as if I was hooked up to a campingsite power point.
There is one more advantage as opposed to a 12v to 12v charger/booster. This portable power source can be used for anything. if you need to use a power tool to do work on the van, car etc, you have a power source. There is an power outage in your neighborhood, you can plug the fridge at home in it and save the meat.

 

[Muchos04]

I'll reply here as the other thread is about Air-Safe. Basically if you can't get the Van to a power point for charging, you need to get the power point to the van.
You need a portable source of energy, i.e. a battery, that you can charge in your flat, and then bring down to the van to charge the leisure batteries. This is to charge the remaining 10-20% that the alternator is not charging as WelshGas just explained above. Of course you can charge them from a lower state of charge too it will just require you to bring up and down the battery to charge in the flat a few times.
My method is a bit inefficient but it works. It is inefficient because the process itself of transforming 12V to 240V or vice-versa consumes energy. In this case it is irrelevant because at home you have as much energy as you want from the wall sockets.
Additionally my research has found out, in order to charge the leisure battery "intelligently" you need an "intelligent" 4 stage charger, particularly to top up the last 10-20% without damaging the leisure batteries and prolong their lifetime. These intelligent charges are cheap when they work out of 240V, like the C-tek and others that you plug in the wall and from the 240V they charge 12v batteries intelligently. Intelligent chargers that work from a 12V source to charge a 12V battery are 5 times more expensive if you want a proper one. The van itself has a 240V to 12V charger that is already connected to the outside blue CEE plug.
So , and I finally come to the point, I bought a battery, that I can carry and charge at home. I bought then a pure sine Inverter that transforms the 12V of the battery into 240V and I connected it to the battery . The inverter has a socket in which you can plug in any 240v items, paying attention to the power limits. This way I can bring battery and connected inverter to the van, plug the van into the inverter socket and it then start charging the leisure batteries as if I was hooked up to a campingsite power point.
There is one more advantage as opposed to a 12v to 12v charger/booster. This portable power source can be used for anything. if you need to use a power tool to do work on the van, car etc, you have a power source. There is an power outage in your neighborhood, you can plug the fridge at home in it and save the meat.

Thank you so much for this very detailed response. This is exactly the problem I’m having. Can you recommend a charger and a pure sine inverter?


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[WelshGas]

Thank you so much for this very detailed response. This is exactly the problem I’m having. Can you recommend a charger and a pure sine inverter?


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Fitting a Solar Panel system would do the same and would be Fit & Forget, provided the vehicle is parked outside.

 

[Calimili]

Fitting a Solar Panel system would do the same and would be Fit & Forget, provided the vehicle is parked outside.

and much lighter to carry. And you can carry it with you when camping off grid.
Not sure though how effective it will be in winter or with a covered sky/rain. And to charge the batteries properly avoiding currents too high in voltage and the correct Ah through the last charge stages you'll still need a very good regulator. Provided it can produce enough power in winter, it could work, but a proper set up will cost more than a charger + battery+inverter. As usual pros and cons of one system vs another..

 

[Calimili]

Thank you so much for this very detailed response. This is exactly the problem I’m having. Can you recommend a charger and a pure sine inverter?


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As charger for charging the battery in the flat I'd recommend a C-Tek, they are the best. I personally use a MXS 10, but the choice depends on what battery will you use, how many Ah the battery has. The Inverter I have is a Solartronic.
I have an overkill system, I just like extra redundancies and tools that don't work under stress and mainly in this case that they don't get hot.

 

[WelshGas]

and much lighter to carry. And you can carry it with you when camping off grid.
Not sure though how effective it will be in winter or with a covered sky/rain. And to charge the batteries properly avoiding currents too high in voltage and the correct Ah through the last charge stages you'll still need a very good regulator. Provided it can produce enough power in winter, it could work, but a proper set up will cost more than a charger + battery+inverter. As usual pros and cons of one system vs another..

No problem with my 100w Panel and MPPT controller over winter.

Another alternative is a Portable Generator.

 

[Muchos04]

As charger for charging the battery in the flat I'd recommend a C-Tek, they are the best. I personally use a MXS 10, but the choice depends on what battery will you use, how many Ah the battery has. The Inverter I have is a Solartronic.
I have an overkill system, I just like extra redundancies and tools that don't work under stress and mainly in this case that they don't get hot.

Firstly WelshGas and Calimili, thanks so much for all the great advice.

Calimili, what battery do you use in the flat? I need to charge two 60 amp Varta leisure batteries in the van.


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[Muchos04]

Fitting a Solar Panel system would do the same and would be Fit & Forget, provided the vehicle is parked outside.

How much would this cost? Any recommendations? Up in Edinburgh.


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[clarinetbcn]

How much would this cost? Any recommendations? Up in Edinburgh.


Sent https://www.solarcampersolutions.co.uk/index.php/contact-us

 

[Muchos04]

Thank you for this. Would need someone to do the work. Wouldn’t have a clue myself.


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[WelshGas]

How much would this cost? Any recommendations? Up in Edinburgh.


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@clarinetbcn has posted the link. Roger, the owner and a Forum Member, sells the complete kits that are easy to fit for someone who can do simple DIY, but if not comfortable to do it yourself then an Autoelectrician would be able to sort installation.

 

[Muchos04]

@clarinetbcn has posted the link. Roger, the owner and a Forum Member, sells the complete kits that are easy to fit for someone who can do simple DIY, but if not comfortable to do it yourself then an Autoelectrician would be able to sort installation.

Excellent many thanks for this. Is that the link you just sent me?


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[Muchos04]

Excellent many thanks for this. Is that the link you just sent me?


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Actually sorry just saw that it is the link


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[WelshGas]

Actually sorry just saw that it is the link


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One query I have is exactly what vehicle you have.
Your Avatar says T5 SE. As far as I am aware the SE had 2 x 75 amp Leisure Batteries, one under the front passenger/NS seat and one under the rear wardrobe. These are internal and certainly not in steel boxes under the vehicle. So what vehicle is it or has it been modified?

 

[Calimili]

Firstly WelshGas and Calimili, thanks so much for all the great advice.

Calimili, what battery do you use in the flat? I need to charge two 60 amp Varta leisure batteries in the van.


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I use a 120ah battery. As a very rough calculation, the charger in the van will draw less than 2amp, otherwise it would not work on many campsite down south. That is consistent with my c-teck mxs 10 that is rated for charging up to 200ah batteries that draws 1.4ah at the most. 1.4 x 240v = 336, let‘s call it 400watts. 400/12= 33Amp per hour or ah. My inverter it‘s quite good and i have huge short cables, let‘s be conservative and add another 10% that‘s 37. To preserve the battery we wont discharge it past 50%, so I have (120ah x 50%)60ah available. 60/37 = 1.6 hours or 1hr and 36 min.
This is the time my battery will last charging the van at max power. In reality to charge the last 10-20% the charger uses less than 400w and from experience I went past 3 hrs charging the van before reaching 50% of my battery.

 

[Muchos04]

One query I have is exactly what vehicle you have.
Your Avatar says T5 SE. As far as I am aware the SE had 2 x 75 amp Leisure Batteries, one under the front passenger/NS seat and one under the rear wardrobe. These are internal and certainly not in steel boxes under the vehicle. So what vehicle is it or has it been modified?

I had to pick a version but it’s a Jerba Conversion 1.9 TDI 84 PS. Jerba put the batteries in the base of the vehicle.


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[Muchos04]

I use a 120ah battery. As a very rough calculation, the charger in the van will draw less than 2amp, otherwise it would not work on many campsite down south. That is consistent with my c-teck mxs 10 that is rated for charging up to 200ah batteries that draws 1.4ah at the most. 1.4 x 240v = 336, let‘s call it 400watts. 400/12= 33Amp per hour or ah. My inverter it‘s quite good and i have huge short cables, let‘s be conservative and add another 10% that‘s 37. To preserve the battery we wont discharge it past 50%, so I have (120ah x 50%)60ah available. 60/37 = 1.6 hours or 1hr and 36 min.
This is the time my battery will last charging the van at max power. In reality to charge the last 10-20% the charger uses less than 400w and from experience I went past 3 hrs charging the van before reaching 50% of my battery.

Thanks for this. Would you happen to be able to take a photo of the battery, inverter and charger all connected to each other. Can’t really picture the set up in my head!!


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[Wesel]

KEEP IT SIMPLE
Is this vehicle version Bluemotion?
If not : all this mess is useless and complicated. Drive with your car and the batteries will recharge with the engine alternator.
If yes : a solar panel would be the solution, as already explained above.

First of all, if you want to know if your battery is charging well or not, buy a small voltmetre like this, and put it in a cigarette lighter socket of the leisure part of the car.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SHQSVPZ/

 

[WelshGas]

I had to pick a version but it’s a Jerba Conversion 1.9 TDI 84 PS. Jerba put the batteries in the base of the vehicle.


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In that case your vehicle is Euro4 and doesn't have the Bluemotion system so the Leisure Batteries will charge fully when driven . Just take for a good run every month.

 

[rod_vw]

I've read through most of this thread and see it getting most protracted.

From personal experience of a T6 (Blue Motion) with twin leisure batteries my recommendation would be...

1. Scrap the current simple split charge relay and fit a Battery to Battery charge controller which will ensure that the leisure battery bank is charged to 100%
2. Fit a solar panel (100W minimum) with a good MPPT charge controller.

Then I would hope that if the van is parked where there is reasonable sunshine (British weather dependent) and driven a reasonable distance every three or four weeks you should not have any problem with the leisure batteries either going flat or deteriorating in early life.

My current camper is equipped as above and fitted with a RING RSCDC30 B to B unit which also incorporates a MPPT solar controller. These had a bad press originally but since mine has been back to RING and had a firmware update it works perfectly. The RSCDC30 retails at about £175 currently plus a solar panel and fitting if of course you cannot do that yourself.

The above is also appropriate to California owners as you all have no more than the basic split charge set-up and must suffer from diminished charging of the leisure battery bank, 80% at best.

Rod

 

[WelshGas]

I've read through most of this thread and see it getting most protracted.

From personal experience of a T6 (Blue Motion) with twin leisure batteries my recommendation would be...

1. Scrap the current simple split charge relay and fit a Battery to Battery charge controller which will ensure that the leisure battery bank is charged to 100%
2. Fit a solar panel (100W minimum) with a good MPPT charge controller.

Then I would hope that if the van is parked where there is reasonable sunshine (British weather dependent) and driven a reasonable distance every three or four weeks you should not have any problem with the leisure batteries either going flat or deteriorating in early life.

My current camper is equipped as above and fitted with a RING RSCDC30 B to B unit which also incorporates a MPPT solar controller. These had a bad press originally but since mine has been back to RING and had a firmware update it works perfectly. The RSCDC30 retails at about £175 currently plus a solar panel and fitting if of course you cannot do that yourself.

The above is also appropriate to California owners as you all have no more than the basic split charge set-up and must suffer from diminished charging of the leisure battery bank, 80% at best.

Rod

Excellent for the T6 & possibly some T5's but we finally found out that the OP's vehicle is a Jerba Conversion 1.9 TDI 84 PS, so well before BlueMotion was fitted as Standard or even as an Option.

 

[rod_vw]

Yes WelshGas, I realised that the OP didn't have a BlueMotion vehicle after I had posted that lot but as you say it's a reasonable solution for all BlueMotion vehicles. There are many other similar ones, that's just the one that I have gone for and find it works for me.

 

[Muchos04]

Yes WelshGas, I realised that the OP didn't have a BlueMotion vehicle after I had posted that lot but as you say it's a reasonable solution for all BlueMotion vehicles. There are many other similar ones, that's just the one that I have gone for and find it works for me.

Thanks everyone for your posts on here. I greatly appreciate each and every comment.


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[SimonB]

Where is @rodgerdonahue based??


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He is based just off the M5 South of Taunton.