My first drive of a Cali

[2into1]

There do appear to be quite few 180's of this age up for sale - surely all can't have this issue or VW could be taken to task? I think there's at least 3 on this site in the classified section with a Berghaus Edition only half an hour away from me.

In several countries vw have paid for fixes on large fleets. In the uk, many engines have been replaced under warranty, and some out of warranty owners have been small amounts of good will (ie we will give you 20% off a £9k bill......when independent garages will do the same work for £5.5).
Because Cali’s do low mileages, failures tend to occur out of warranty, unlike plainer commercial vans.

 

[Goss]

I can see what you're saying but it's not that simple. What's a compression test going to cost? 100 quid? Then what is typical cost for fitting new EGR cooler? I'm wondering if dealer might consider me offering to buy at screen price if he changes EGR if compression test ok with perhaps a slight contribution by me as after all it's not his fault; he assumed engine fine when he bought it and pretty sure his own guys had checked it over.....

He should be able to change EGR and have compression test included in screen price and still make a good profit, I would ask for it. ( I got it with my deal).

 

[Norfolk Jim]

Just come off the phone with the VW this dealer uses on their hire fleet. Could not believe how incredibly helpful the chap was. Got chatting to him and he's been VW for over 30 years!. Really friendly and knew exactly what I was on about. I explained Robinsons serviced it so he looked it up. His first words were OMG what a detailed history. He said it was one of the most comprehensive he'd ever seen. All services bang on time including brake replacement, brake fluid replacement, cambelt and pump detailed and one or two other things including the roof recall all detailed. He told me they had replaced engines before in the past (but these can be counted on one hand compared to the number of this engine they've had no issues on - he said tiny number) but each time there were some early signs that were ignored, He also said if there was an issue with compression Robinsons would have picked that up while it was hooked up. The fact there was no smoke on cold start-up and no hesitation from cold and gearbox shifts were imperceptible then all sounds well - he said interestingly not many people know the DSG gearbox was good at showing up problems by slight hesitations in gear change which a manual clutch wouldn't pick up. He said you could go down the route of fitting newer version cooler which may give peace of mind but at £1200 - £1500 that's a lot of money. He said get the warranty they offer and disagreed with the idea it could be classed as wear and tear as engine should last min 100k etc. SO now I'm thinking hard.......

There is a 140 for sale up north of same age and mileage but long way to visit - 4 hours drive but it is cheaper.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

Just to confuse you further, below van came up on FB Marketplace (where it shows 'auction' guide price of £32K). Link below is from Lotus dealers website. Must have been taken in Part exchange.

VW California SE TDi 140 - Hofmanns

Year: 2013 Price: AUCTION Status: For Sale

hofmanns.co.uk

 

[Norfolk Jim]

That sounds good - so if guide price on auction is 32 I wonder what it will go for........

 

[Jenny H]

Just had a look - its a manual though if that bothers you?!

 

[Ch1pbutty]

That sounds good - so if guide price on auction is 32 I wonder what it will go for........

It might not even be an auction. Dealer just might be looking for sales leads / offers.

 

[Norfolk Jim]

Yeh I found it. Gearbox doesn't worry me

 

[2into1]

Just come off the phone with the VW this dealer uses on their hire fleet. Could not believe how incredibly helpful the chap was. Got chatting to him and he's been VW for over 30 years!. Really friendly and knew exactly what I was on about. I explained Robinsons serviced it so he looked it up. His first words were OMG what a detailed history. He said it was one of the most comprehensive he'd ever seen. All services bang on time including brake replacement, brake fluid replacement, cambelt and pump detailed and one or two other things including the roof recall all detailed. He told me they had replaced engines before in the past (but these can be counted on one hand compared to the number of this engine they've had no issues on - he said tiny number) but each time there were some early signs that were ignored, He also said if there was an issue with compression Robinsons would have picked that up while it was hooked up. The fact there was no smoke on cold start-up and no hesitation from cold and gearbox shifts were imperceptible then all sounds well - he said interestingly not many people know the DSG gearbox was good at showing up problems by slight hesitations in gear change which a manual clutch wouldn't pick up. He said you could go down the route of fitting newer version cooler which may give peace of mind but at £1200 - £1500 that's a lot of money. He said get the warranty they offer and disagreed with the idea it could be classed as wear and tear as engine should last min 100k etc. SO now I'm thinking hard.......

There is a 140 for sale up north of same age and mileage but long way to visit - 4 hours drive but it is cheaper.

You seem to be hearing what you want to hear.... You can't test compression while it's hooked up for a service.*... Regular servicing isn't thought to be related to the EGR / dead engine issue.... Many report suggen on set of symptoms without early signs.... His word will be worth zero if you need a £5k warranty claim: as will mine, so the only thing to do is read the terms of the warranty being offered.

*Compression test requires removal of glow plugs or injectors (not sure which) and is read on an specialist compression testing equipment. You can't just read it through the factory software.

I've owned a 180 without problems so I'm not 'anti' them, but as you asked for help....

I trust you've read the specialist threads on here about the issue and are aware of the Facebook group dedicated to the issue?

 

[Norfolk Jim]

You seem to be hearing what you want to hear.... You can't test compression while it's hooked up for a service.*... Regular servicing isn't thought to be related to the EGR / dead engine issue.... Many report suggen on set of symptoms without early signs.... His word will be worth zero if you need a £5k warranty claim: as will mine, so the only thing to do is read the terms of the warranty being offered.

*Compression test requires removal of glow plugs or injectors (not sure which) and is read on an specialist compression testing equipment. You can't just read it through the factory software.

I've owned a 180 without problems so I'm not 'anti' them, but as you asked for help....

I trust you've read the specialist threads on here about the issue and are aware of the Facebook group dedicated to the issue?

Thanks. I do appreciate what you are saying - I'm only saying what the chap told me and yes I have seen Facebook page but can't get on it as it asks questions on ownership I can't answer as I don't own one

 

[2into1]

but can't get on it as it asks questions on ownership I can't answer as I don't own one

You are a very honest man (just lie) and perhaps assume the same honesty in others. I appear to be on the opposite end of that spectrum!

 

[Norfolk Jim]

Thank you - I'll have a go........ One thing I did find out is the van had it's oil change annually and not longlife. So in last 8 years it's oil has been changed 7 times. Not sure if this helps (reading through one of the old posts).

 

[2into1]

Thank you - I'll have a go........ One thing I did find out is the van had it's oil change annually and not longlife. So in last 8 years it's oil has been changed 7 times. Not sure if this helps (reading through one of the old posts).

It helps a bit, but a year with basically carborundum knocking around in the sump is still plenty of opportunity to do the damage. Certainly better than 2 years though.

 

[Norfolk Jim]

Thanks - so my best approach is to ask if they'll do a compression test first at their cost and what if all 4 cylinders have excellent compression - does it really then need a new cooler? Or do we need both compression test and oil analysis by VW before deciding as in a way it doesn't seem fair if both these tests prove favourable to then ask them to fit a new cooler?

 

[Norfolk Jim]

Sorry for bombarding you!

 

[2into1]

Thanks - so my best approach is to ask if they'll do a compression test first at their cost and what if all 4 cylinders have excellent compression - does it really then need a new cooler? Or do we need both compression test and oil analysis by VW before deciding as in a way it doesn't seem fair if both these tests prove favourable to then ask them to fit a new cooler?

If the result of the compression test (dealer) and oil (send away kit... Millers?) are fine, then take it as it is, with your usual negotiating.

Then (my advice), file those papers away very carefully, along with the invoice for the fitting of a /d cooler, at your expense. Yes it will cost a grand, but that, along with the 'proof' from the papers will make your eventual resale much easier and at more £ than the EGR cost.

 

[Norfolk Jim]

If the result of the compression test (dealer) and oil (send away kit... Millers?) are fine, then take it as it is, with your usual negotiating.

Then (my advice), file those papers away very carefully, along with the invoice for the fitting of a /d cooler, at your expense. Yes it will cost a grand, but that, along with the 'proof' from the papers will make your eventual resale much easier and at more £ than the EGR cost.

Thank you. Appreciated

 

[westfalia]

I would offer him 31k after telling him that
your head says no but your heart also says no,
and take out the extra guarantee, you should be covered then.

 

[Norfolk Jim]

Still trying to make my mind up - I see the Berghaus near me has sold but waiting for new locks on my T5 before decision time but something I did notice were the seats....................yes both turn but I didn't notice any height adjustment and 2 others I've seen show the same. I was perfectly comfortable in the one I drove but found it odd seats stay put - only steering wheel moves around. Both seats on my T5 conversion can be raised or lowered....
or have I just not found the right lever?

 

[2into1]

Still trying to make my mind up - I see the Berghaus near me has sold but waiting for new locks on my T5 before decision time but something I did notice were the seats....................yes both turn but I didn't notice any height adjustment and 2 others I've seen show the same. I was perfectly comfortable in the one I drove but found it odd seats stay put - only steering wheel moves around. Both seats on my T5 conversion can be raised or lowered....
or have I just not found the right lever?

They don't adjust. If you find a genuine Cali with height adjustable seats then they were a option selected badly, as they don't rotate.

 

[Norfolk Jim]

They don't adjust. If you find a genuine Cali with height adjustable seats then they were a option selected badly, as they don't rotate.

Thank you - that's quite interesting as my passenger seat goes up and down and also rotates but in the lowest position it is still somewhat high for a short person - i.e. the wife at 5'-4" and sometimes she needs a cushion under her feet on long drives. Must admit I felt very comfortable in the Cali driving seat albeit DSG so not sure what a manual would be like - thanks for the help.

 

[2into1]

but in the lowest position it is still somewhat high for a short person

That is why Cali's don't have height adjustment. Also the 2nd battery and fuses are under the (rhd) passenger seat, which would take up a further cupboard in many other configurations.
VW do make the odd daft decision, but these things have been developed over a very long time, and VW, unlike convertors, can tool up to do things differently, the water tanks, gas, outdoor table and chairs being examples where the Cali beats conversions.

 

[Norfolk Jim]

Ok fair enough - that does make sense. Ironically my T5 conversion has only one battery in engine compartment but it's a larger capacity than normal - apparently they still do it on their new conversions! We've never been let down. The fridge runs from either gas, EHU or 12V when driving. Other reason our passenger seat is high is the electric heater is under it. All that's under drivers seat is some wiring. Must admit I did feel comfortable in the Cali driving it and I spend ages normally getting seat perfect - thankfully my car has memory buttons......

 

[Norfolk Jim]

Well the local dealer was happy for the tests at my cost and to replace EGR at my cost but would only offer £500 off price even though I would have paid cash and dealt with those items myself. He was only offering basic 3 months warranty in the end so would have been a further £485 for comprehensive years warranty so costs were adding up to region of £37k. I was never sure so declined it. It sold this weekend for asking price! Meanwhile 3 others I've looked at have also sold so need to think about what to do as most others are a long way away from me. Since getting my locks sorted my local garage owner said he'd be very interested when I sell at the figure I was talking about. He likes it as genuine vehicle with no thrills - mine doesn't have alloys, electric windows or mirrors and no a/c - so we'll have to see as at moment it is still in use by my son still with us.............only vehicle he's insured on. Now with latest possible lockdown he'll be with us longer as various job offers he's had are Jan start!

 

[Legin]

From a dealer perspective if the customer puts loads of costly requirements into a deal they just wait for the next one that will just buy it especially in a sellers market. Like houses and suveys.

With regard to the 180 engine Im very clear the following are true.
Damage is on the induction side not the oil side so no amount of oil changes or servicing is going to help in any way.
The evidence on line conclusively shows the mechanism to be EGR degradation with the Alloy fins eroding away probably to Al Oxide which is hard as hell.

A compression test wont conclusively tell you the Al Oxide isnt already there machining away the bore. In short it only confirms if its already knackered

The conditions that mean some are unaffected is not clearly understood by internet warriors at least , if you understand high temperature erosion corrosion mechanisms this isnt surprising. Its complicated and requires alot of testing and metallurgical analysis which isnt possible outside professional specialists.

My suggestion is put aside 10k for a rainy day or play safe and buy a 140. So buy a 140 then you can sleep at night.