New DVLA classification ?

[Neuon2003]

The problem is that the regulations do not mention external look [...]
Probably wouldnt stand up to a legal challenge but too much work

The duty on me to ensure that the V5C is correct is established here: Change vehicle details on a V5C registration certificate (log book).

DVLA gives a body type description based on the vehicle’s external appearance. The evidence required from me to help them do this is established in Government Guidance (Converting a vehicle into a motorhome (Updated 1 May 19)). The Guidance says that the body type will not be changed unless the exterior of the vehicle actually appears to be a motor home, but the Guidance is silent on what criteria proves the appearance is a motorhome.

Hence, I am not able to exercise the duty I have to inform DVLA that the V5C is correct. I have contacted the following, as specified in the Guidance document, to seek clarification of how I comply with my legal requirement to ensure the V5C is correct.

Contact Information
If you require any further information, contact the International Vehicle Standards Team at:
International Vehicle Standards
Department for Transport
Zone 1/34, Great Minster House
33 Horseferry Road, London, SW1P 4DR
Email: ivs.enquiries@dft.gov.uk

 

[Neuon2003]

Just in case anyone else wants to join the party below is a copy of the email sent to ivs.enquiries@dft.gov.uk

I do not expect a response/guidance for the external appearance issue, given this looks to be a repeat of the same issue which arose in 2011. Then, the DVLA said it was all down to "a reasonability test", but in the end the DVLA relented due to the volume of complaints.

For more information, see this 2015 article What is a motorhome?

Dear Sir/ Madam,

I refer to the Government Guidance "Converting a vehicle into a motorhome Updated 16 May 2019” (https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...-a-vehicle-into-a-motorhome#legal-information) which specifies the DfT International Vehicle Standards Team as the point of contact for further information.

I understand this Guidance is provided further to the legal requirement that all UK registered vehicles are classified correctly on the V5C log book; "Change vehicle details on a V5C registration certificate (log book)” refers - https://www.gov.uk/change-vehicle-details-registration-certificate/what-evidence-to-give. Here, it is stated that DVLA gives a body type description based on the vehicle’s external appearance. The evidence required to help DVLA do this for a body type of “Motor Caravan” is established in the above referenced Guidance.

The Guidance says that "the body type will not be changed [to Motor Caravan] unless the exterior of the vehicle [Campervan, motor caravan and motorhomes] actually appears to be a motor home", but the Guidance is completely silent on what evidence is required to prove the appearance is a motor home.

In order to meet responsibilities for the accuracy of the V5C for the category ‘Motor Caravan", I would be grateful if you could please provide me with further information as follows:

• The Guidance of what exterior evidence is needed to meet the requirement of an appearance that the vehicle is a motor home; or
• Direction to where such information can be obtained, established or determined.

Given the underlying legal duty for accuracy of the V5C, I look forward to hearing from you and would very much appreciate a prompt response.

Thank you in advance.

Regards,

 

[Lightning]

I think its better to be classified as a MPV rather than a motorhome. It should give a far better choice of mainstream insurers for those of us that need business use & high mileage cover.

When someone who makes the rules realises that the current speed limits are absurd there are bound to be changes- as others have said our old 8m long big white was subject to car limits yet the same cab attached to a cali size van had lower limits. If there are changes I would be betting that MPVs end up with more favourable treatment than motor caravans.

For Beaches, the new treatment actually appears to be correct with the previous registration details being an anomaly.

Comfort offer business use and unlimited mileage, it’s what I have. Comfort also offer up to 9 months continuous travel in Europe, which is not available from mainstream insurers. Additionally these specialist policies tend to have a have higher contents cover as standard. I think there is only one or possibly two companies that offer long term single trip European insurance. So, if the underwriters will no longer insure California’s, as motorhomes this could be a real problem for some of us. It’s really difficult to get already, without this additional issue. I hope they sort it out.




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[Neuon2003]

I hope they sort it out.

Indeed. DVLA has re-opened a can of worms, including the possibility that VW cannot legally market the California Ocean as a camper van in the UK as this could be mis-selling.

What is a camper van? A camper van is a special purposes passenger car which meets the DfT definition of motor caravan, as evinced by a DVLA V5C body type of "motor caravan”. If it is not described in the V5C as a ‘motor caravan’, the converted vehicle does not have the minimum features to qualify as a motor caravan.

"All camper vans, motor caravans and motorhomes fall into the DVLA category of ‘motor caravan' ", according to DfT. Hence, a vehicle not described as a "motor caravan" cannot be a camper van, because camper vans are described as a motor caravan on the V5C.

Anyone for a class action?

 

[westfalia]

Is it not good that the Cali is classed as a car, therefore it
can be put through a business because on paper its a car.

When i got ours it was down as a car but the Merc marco polo was listed on the
logbook as a motorhome so that was no use to us, Merc have since changed it,
well in germany that is.

 

[WelshGas]

Is it not good that the Cali is classed as a car, therefore it
can be put through a business because on paper its a car.

When i got ours it was down as a car but the Merc marco polo was listed on the
logbook as a motorhome so that was no use to us, Merc have since changed it,
well in germany that is.

Two different things, in the U.K. each vehicle has the Vehicle Type and Body Type.
Vehicle Type M1 Diesel Car. This is the same for all Californias
Body Type was Motor Caravan but now changed to MPV - Multi Purpose Vehicle

It is the change in Body Type which is causing the problem with Specialist Insurers.

 

[Lightning]

Is it not good that the Cali is classed as a car, therefore it
can be put through a business because on paper its a car.

When i got ours it was down as a car but the Merc marco polo was listed on the
logbook as a motorhome so that was no use to us, Merc have since changed it,
well in germany that is.

From previous discussions with my accountant there seems little benefit to put a car or motorhome through the business in the UK. Vans and pick up trucks are worthwhile though apparently.


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[westfalia]

Okay, cheers @WelshGas and @Lightning

Not up to speed how it works over there, i knew this
was nothing to do with me

 

[Alform]

Just been having a chat with a neighbour who works at the DVLA . Not in said department.
VW and other organisations are already in dialogue with the them. The only reason he knew this was by a chance conversation with a colleague about what a VW California looked like from the outside. My Cali was used as reference and he listed things like the awning & bike rack as why you could certainly tell it was not a regular van. Every little helps .
He is not in a position to answer any questions on the matter but will update me should any information become available.

 

[Amarillo]

VW and other organisations are already in dialogue with the them. The only reason he knew this was by a chance conversation with a colleague about what a VW California looked like from the outside. My Cali was used as reference and he listed things like the awning & bike rack as why you could certainly tell it was not a regular van.

The awning is an option (on the Beach at least) and the bike rack is an accessory.

 

[westfalia]

Just been having a chat with a neighbour who works at the DVLA . Not in said department.
VW and other organisations are already in dialogue with the them. The only reason he knew this was by a chance conversation with a colleague about what a VW California looked like from the outside. My Cali was used as reference and he listed things like the awning & bike rack as why you could certainly tell it was not a regular van. Every little helps .
He is not in a position to answer any questions on the matter but will update me should any information become available.

You shoul´ve put the roof up and told them that you
sometimes drive around with it up

 

[andyinluton]

The awning is an option (on the Beach at least) and the bike rack is an accessory.

Theres no way the beach should be registered as a motor caravan in the first place under even the "old" DVLA rules let alone the new ones.

 

[Ian Maddocks]

I picked up my brand new Ocean on Saturday and the V5 arrived on Monday.
My California has been registered as a ‘Transporter T30 TDI BMT’ with a Body Type of ‘MPV’.

I spoke to DVLA who told me it was registered online and the online system does not allow a Body Type to be specified, unlike the paper registration process which does.

I’ve asked the dealer to fix the V5 and hope this results in it being classified as Motor Home or Van w/side windows. Comfort insurance have insured me but given me 8 weeks to get the V5 fixed.

 

[andyinluton]

On those details its not the MPV v Motor Caravan that I would be worried about, its the Transporter T30 TDI BMT - It looks like its been registered as a Kombi rather than a california.

Mine for D.3 Model reads California SE TDI BMT

If yours was stolen & all you've got left is the V5 how would anyone know that it was a Cali?

Is the registration problem then that the box D3 is not being filled in correctly which means Motor Caravan does not appear as an option for the next box?

 

[calicasas]

This will cause problems with some campsites too. I’ve had to confirm my Cali is shown as campervan on v5 before being allowed to book on to some sites including several in Norfolk. One even wanted to see the v5 before they would allow the booking.

I know why they do that, but personally, i wouldnt be going to campsites that ask me for my V5....

 

[Scanacali]

I picked up my brand new Ocean on Saturday and the V5 arrived on Monday.
My California has been registered as a ‘Transporter T30 TDI BMT’ with a Body Type of ‘MPV’.

I spoke to DVLA who told me it was registered online and the online system does not allow a Body Type to be specified, unlike the paper registration process which does.

View attachment 48191

It just gets worse. The model specified in D3 above has obviously been wrongly selected by the dealer on the online registration system, but if the DVLA is saying that the body type is not selectable, are they now going to be registering all new Transporter Vans as MPV's as well?

 

[B J G]

I picked up my brand new Ocean on Saturday and the V5 arrived on Monday.
My California has been registered as a ‘Transporter T30 TDI BMT’ with a Body Type of ‘MPV’.

I spoke to DVLA who told me it was registered online and the online system does not allow a Body Type to be specified, unlike the paper registration process which does.

I’ve asked the dealer to fix the V5 and hope this results in it being classified as Motor Home or Van w/side windows. Comfort insurance have insured me but given me 8 weeks to get the V5 fixed.

View attachment 48191

View attachment 48192

To be legally registered as a 'Transporter' it must be marketed/sold and badged as such. Obviously you have a California model.

In the second user market you would be deemed to have a converted van.

Some years ago the DVLA took 'Triumph' off my kit car V5 because it didn't have an external Triumph badge, one on the steering wheel didn't qualify.

 

[andyinluton]

It just gets worse. The model specified in D3 above has obviously been wrongly selected by the dealer on the online registration system, but if the DVLA is saying that the body type is not selectable, are they now going to be registering all new Transporter Vans as MPV's as well?

I don't know how clever the registration system is but If the model had been put in correctly as California perhaps the body type would have automatically filled in as Motor Caravan.

Whereas choosing Transporter combined with the number of seats may automatically generate MPV

 

[Lightning]

I found this comment on the outandabout forum.

It looks like this change is somehow tax related, as we suspected...

Historically, motorhomes with European Whole Vehicle Type Approval (EWVTA) that were converted in more than one ‘stage’ have (usually) had no CO2 emissions figure on their ‘final stage’ Certificate of Conformity (ie. the Certificate of Conformity (CoC) that will have been issued by the motorhome converter). Consequently, those vehicles could not be assigned to any of the UK’s VED ‘car’ classes that are CO2-emissions related.

However, if motorhome converters will (from 1 September 2019) be compelled to include a CO2 figure on the ‘final stage’ CoC, the DVLA will be in a position to treat those vehicles as ‘cars’ at first UK-registration and assign them to the UK’s VED ‘car’ classes that are CO2-emissions related. This action would not affect new motorhomes with a maximum overall weight exceeding 3500kg as the UK’s VED ‘car’ classes that are CO2-emissions related only apply to vehicles with a maximum overall weight not exceeding 3500kg.

So, if the information on the Spinney webpage is correct, the VED charge when a new ‘up-to-3500kg’ motorhome is first registered will rise dramatically.

(Obviously this would only impact on new motorhomes at UK first-registration. not on motorhomes that are already registered.)



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[Neuon2003]

I found this comment on the outandabout forum.
It looks like this change is somehow tax related, as we suspected...

Good find . I came across the attached today in the Facebook Self Build Campervans forum which also suggests changes are tax related.

 

[WelshGas]

I found this comment on the outandabout forum.

It looks like this change is somehow tax related, as we suspected...

Historically, motorhomes with European Whole Vehicle Type Approval (EWVTA) that were converted in more than one ‘stage’ have (usually) had no CO2 emissions figure on their ‘final stage’ Certificate of Conformity (ie. the Certificate of Conformity (CoC) that will have been issued by the motorhome converter). Consequently, those vehicles could not be assigned to any of the UK’s VED ‘car’ classes that are CO2-emissions related.

However, if motorhome converters will (from 1 September 2019) be compelled to include a CO2 figure on the ‘final stage’ CoC, the DVLA will be in a position to treat those vehicles as ‘cars’ at first UK-registration and assign them to the UK’s VED ‘car’ classes that are CO2-emissions related. This action would not affect new motorhomes with a maximum overall weight exceeding 3500kg as the UK’s VED ‘car’ classes that are CO2-emissions related only apply to vehicles with a maximum overall weight not exceeding 3500kg.

So, if the information on the Spinney webpage is correct, the VED charge when a new ‘up-to-3500kg’ motorhome is first registered will rise dramatically.

(Obviously this would only impact on new motorhomes at UK first-registration. not on motorhomes that are already registered.)



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How does that relate to the California. It is registered in the U.K. as M1, Diesel Car, has a CO2 Emissions figure and is taxed accordingly, already.

 

[Lightning]

How does that relate to the California. It is registered in the U.K. as M1, Diesel Car, has a CO2 Emissions figure and is taxed accordingly, already.

My view is - The MPV issue is affecting all second stage van conversions as well as the California. Until now all those conversions were Motor Caravans but paid less tax than the California as they did not declare CO2. As they will soon have to, they will be treated in the same way as the California. To be consistent they are now choosing to categorise all motorhomes up to 3500kg converted by the manufacturer or second stage converter the same. As MPV or window van.

It may just be a coincidence that the tax change for converters and the MPV change for converters and California’s is occurring at the same time,




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[Lightning]

I suppose the other point is that as all motorhomes up to 3500kg are now to be treated the same as cars for taxation, the motorhome designation previously needed to categorise them separately is now superfluous. So they are removing it.


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[WelshGas]

I suppose the other point is that as all motorhomes up to 3500kg are now to be treated the same as cars for taxation, the motorhome designation previously needed to categorise them separately is now superfluous. So they are removing it.


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The Specialist Insurers aren’t going to like that. They will have to change their definitions.

 

[APL46]

Having just purchased my California Ocean, I obviously had to insure it and as such contacted Comfort insurance. I was very pleased with their quote and service but one thing unexpectedly came to light, the lady stated that my California was showing as an MPV on their database and not a campervan ( or motor caravan, can’t remember fully ) as it should be.The insurance database is based on the DVLA details and as such she advised me to get in touch with the dealership to rectify the mistake.
I contacted my VW dealership and highlighted the issue and they then found that three California’s that they had registered new this year were also shown as MPV and queried this with VW HQ. Below is the reply -

“The California’s are now classed as Body Type MPV they do not use CamperVan, please see below L

Vehicles registered with body type 96 will have MPV on the V5. This is not an internal issue, DVLA have changed the rules in terms of what body types can be used for tax class DC and PC. Historically, vehicles could be registered with body type 27 motor caravan in tax class DC & PC but DVLA have stopped this. As such the California model is now registered with body type MPV not motor caravan.”

Before I go back to Comfort Insurance and update them, has anyone else had this raised with them ? Is it correct ? Has anyone had a California registered as new since January this year and what is its classification ?

Sorry if this has previously discussed but I couldn’t find any info on here. Thanks

I have found a petition - see https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/267623