New DVLA classification ?

[Digger]

If many are being discriminated by insurance companies as regards motor caravan classification why not write a formal complaint to DVLA and explain this change is both discriminatory and a total turn around on previous DfT rule. If no joy write to your MP (would give them something else to worry about) More that complains might just be enough.
I don't understand why some insurance persons are being awkward as my discussion with underwriter was no issue with manufacturer conversions.

 

[Bellcrew]

DVLA are now rejecting pretty much every request to change the V5 for conversions even from professional converters, seems to be something going on within the DFT.

MPV will be cheaper on the tunnel maybe I should get it changed

The California is by any definition of the words a multi purpose vehicle, with the added benefit that you can sleep and cook in it. The DVLA has lost many millions of pounds over the years by allowing the buyers of conversions to avoid the over £40000 extra tax regime together with the PLG registration avoiding CO2 related extra tax.
We have to wait to see what the new chancellor will do, probably clobber us all again, presumably Mr McDonnell will be even more demanding if he gets into number 11.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

VW should assist more in solving the issue with the DVLA as the word ‘camper / campervan’ is clearly used in all VW’s marketing bumph.

 

[Loz]

VW should assist more in solving the issue with the DVLA as the word ‘camper / campervan’ is clearly used in all VW’s marketing bumph.

I'm sure if DVLA were to create a Body type=Campervan the dealers would choose it.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

I'm sure if DVLA were to create a Body type=Campervan the dealers would choose it.

According to latest DVLA guidelines such a category already exists for this purpose:

Qte
V5C log book
It is a legal requirement that all UK registered vehicles are classified correctly on the V5C log book. All campervans, motor caravans and motorhomes fall into the DVLA category of ‘motor caravan’. If you have converted a van into a motor caravan then you must return the V5C to DVLA for body type amendment.
Unqte

 

[Loz]

According to latest DVLA guidelines such a category already exists for this purpose:

Qte
V5C log book
It is a legal requirement that all UK registered vehicles are classified correctly on the V5C log book. All campervans, motor caravans and motorhomes fall into the DVLA category of ‘motor caravan’. If you have converted a van into a motor caravan then you must return the V5C to DVLA for body type amendment.
Unqte

Yes we know that, but they now no longer want to follow their own rules..

 

[Lightning]

Yes we know that, but they now no longer want to follow their own rules..

They are following their own rules which now also state for a vehicle to be classified as a motor caravan it must externally ‘look like a motorhome to enforcement agencies’. The California does not subjectively look like a traditional motorhome.
There are a very limited number of specialist insurers offering long term single trip European cover, this change appears to limit the choice even further.

 

[Loz]

They are following their own rules which now also state for a vehicle to be classified as a motor caravan it must externally ‘look like a motorhome to enforcement agencies’. The California does not subjectively look like a traditional motorhome.
There are a very limited number of specialist insurers offering long term single trip European cover, this change appears to limit the choice even further.

Fortunately the insurance companies are not limited to dvla rules, so they will probably adapt their classification so as not to lose business.

 

[Lightning]

Fortunately the insurance companies are not limited to dvla rules, so they will probably adapt their classification so as not to lose business.

I really hope so but I’m not so confident. Comfort already have separate distinct policies for motorhomes and a different one for campervans, with different cover offered. So it must be the underwriter who insists on the motor caravan classification for their policies. Are (Aviva?) likely to change their policy criteria? Would any MPV then be able to get motorhome insurance. How would they decide what is and what is not a motorhome? It may not be straightforward, as they are defined as specialist products for motorhomes. I hope the business case makes a change iworth it to them.

 

[B J G]

They are following their own rules which now also state for a vehicle to be classified as a motor caravan it must externally ‘look like a motorhome to enforcement agencies’. The California does not subjectively look like a traditional motorhome.
There are a very limited number of specialist insurers offering long term single trip European cover, this change appears to limit the choice even further.

As everything is now becoming NPR dependent that is merely an undefined and unspecified distraction from how any vehicle is identified by enforcement agencies. "looking like a Motorhome" that is.

 

[Lightning]

As everything is now becoming NPR dependent that is merely an undefined and unspecified distraction from how any vehicle is identified by enforcement agencies. "looking like a Motorhome" that is.

I suppose if the Police are looking out for a Motorhome using their eyes, because a previously apinged ANPR has described it as that from the V5, then they could miss a passing Van/ MPV. The V5 must describe what the vehicle actually looks like according to the DVLA. These are the current requirements...

 

[B J G]

I suppose if the Police are looking out for a Motorhome using their eyes, because a previously apinged ANPR has described it as that from the V5, then they could miss a passing Van/ MPV. The V5 must describe what the vehicle actually looks like according to the DVLA. These are the current requirements...

From that you are supposing that a Traffic policeman is incapable of identifying a Blue VW California Motorhome when it passes.

 

[Lightning]

From that you are supposing that a Traffic policeman is incapable of identifying a Blue VW California Motorhome when it passes.

It’s not my rule, it is a recently revised DVLA requirement. They clearly specify that the V5 body type has to describe what the vehicle actually looks like for enforcement agencies. I imagine this includes but is not limited to traffic policemen. The California does not look like a motorhome, it looks more like a van or MPV.

 

[B J G]

It’s not my rule, it is a recently revised DVLA requirement. They clearly specify that the V5 body type has to describe what the vehicle actually looks like for enforcement agencies. I imagine this includes but is not limited to traffic policemen. The California does not look like a motorhome, it looks more like a van or MPV.

Going in circles as what does a Motorhome look like in the DVLA's eyes? Those trying to ascertain this cannot get a clear description to comply with.

 

[Meoncoast]

Well it looks like a Motorhome - but when I opened the door it was full of horses.

 

[Lightning]

Going in circles as what does a Motorhome look like in the DVLA's eyes? Those trying to ascertain this cannot get a clear description to comply with.

It appears they have decided that whatever a motorhome looks like, the Marco Polo and California are not it, as they meet all the other DVLA requirements to be one.

 

[Loz]

I think the “looks like a Motorhome” for enforcement is a red herring. My suspicion is that the government think they are loosing out on the initial bonus tax on new vehicles as donor vehicles that start out as vans cost less than 40k, maybe they think that all day van conversations are some how dodging some tax?
It doesn’t make much sense at the moment, as so far, the only downside to cali owners is that you cant get the CMC insurance.
I bet the eurotunnel robbers will be thinking of a new way to surcharge calis with type MPV with maybe a “its got gas” tax.
I feel sorry for the conversions as they will still be speed restricted as they are getting classed as “van with side windows” now.
Lets hope there is not going to be reclassification of speeds based on “Motorhome” as it seems dis proportionate that a van can be speed restricted but a massive Motorhome is not.

 

[Lightning]

I think the “looks like a Motorhome” for enforcement is a red herring. My suspicion is that the government think they are loosing out on the initial bonus tax on new vehicles as donor vehicles that start out as vans cost less than 40k, maybe they think that all day van conversations are some how dodging some tax?
It doesn’t make much sense at the moment, as so far, the only downside to cali owners is that you cant get the CMC insurance.
I bet the eurotunnel robbers will be thinking of a new way to surcharge calis with type MPV with maybe a “its got gas” tax.
I feel sorry for the conversions as they will still be speed restricted as they are getting classed as “van with side windows” now.
Lets hope there is not going to be reclassification of speeds based on “Motorhome” as it seems dis proportionate that a van can be speed restricted but a massive Motorhome is not.

Presumably the manufacturer conversions which do look more like motorhomes, are still being classified as Motorcaravan. Hymer Grand Canyon for example?
I wouldn’t be surprised if there is an ulterior motive though, maybe related to low emissions zones or congestion charging or something.

 

[Loz]

... or there is a new manager in that department who hates campervans ?

 

[andyinluton]

I think its better to be classified as a MPV rather than a motorhome. It should give a far better choice of mainstream insurers for those of us that need business use & high mileage cover.

When someone who makes the rules realises that the current speed limits are absurd there are bound to be changes- as others have said our old 8m long big white was subject to car limits yet the same cab attached to a cali size van had lower limits. If there are changes I would be betting that MPVs end up with more favourable treatment than motor caravans.

For Beaches, the new treatment actually appears to be correct with the previous registration details being an anomaly.

 

[B J G]

Well it looks like a Motorhome - but when I opened the door it was full of horses.

Yes, since the driving of 7.5 tonnes Horse Boxes now requires the C1 driving test cost the majority of horse boxes now look like Motorhomes, perhaps it would be cheaper to convert one of those, from the tax angle. Give the DVLA a new problem to confuse everyone.

 

[MattBW]

They are following their own rules which now also state for a vehicle to be classified as a motor caravan it must externally ‘look like a motorhome to enforcement agencies’. The California does not subjectively look like a traditional motorhome.
There are a very limited number of specialist insurers offering long term single trip European cover, this change appears to limit the choice even further.

This isn't just effecting campervan style vehicles...

The problem is that the regulations do not mention external look, only table, sleeping facilities, cooker etc. Guidelines and regulations are two very different things and whoever has instructed the DVLA (apparently the DFT) has chosen to effectively disergard the regulations. Probably wouldnt stand up to a legal challenge but too much work to change the regs no doubt.

 

[Ray Cali]

Had a look at my V5, it's on a 68 plate and registered has a motor caravan. Bought it from VW Liverpool

 

[Neuon2003]

Comfort Insurance’s Operations Director confirmed in a phone call this morning that currently they would not be able to insure a new California Ocean classified as an MPV. It seems this is a restriction of their underwriter. It was said that discussions are in hand with DVLA to seek reinstatement of the previous Motor caravan classification. I was told that Comfort are seeking support with DVLA from other specialist insurers and that Comfort may be looking to find a different underwriter.

Comfort said that their issue may possibly be resolved by my current provisional delivery forecast of mid October.

It may be that the quickest solution could be in the hands of an Underwriter who is happy to insure Motor caravans classed as MPV (but maybe not MPV which are not Motor caravans).

 

[Loz]

Comfort Insurance’s Operations Director confirmed in a phone call this morning that currently they would not be able to insure a new California Ocean classified as an MPV. It seems this is a restriction of their underwriter. It was said that discussions are in hand with DVLA to seek reinstatement of the previous Motor caravan classification. I was told that Comfort are seeking support with DVLA from other specialist insurers and that Comfort may be looking to find a different underwriter.

Comfort said that their issue may possibly be resolved by my current provisional delivery forecast of mid October.

It may be that the quickest solution could be in the hands of an Underwriter who is happy to insure Motor caravans classed as MPV (but maybe not MPV which are not Motor caravans).

Underwriters can also use the make and model, so VW California could be added to their list.