New T6.1 order delays

[SSmithHerts]

PhilR,
I think I basically got the same answer as you. I think it depends upon who answers. I asked specifically whether I was getting the 199PS and I mentioned that it would not be able to be registered after December 31. I know it sounds specific but we'll have to see.

Looks like we’re in a similar boat with our 150 Ocean. Ordered 21/9 factory confirmed but no build week. Would love to know if a dealer can register a vehicle without actually receiving it. Otherwise what happens to a vehicle that arrives in January?!

 

[PhilR]

Looks like we’re in a similar boat with our 150 Ocean. Ordered 21/9 factory confirmed but no build week. Would love to know if a dealer can register a vehicle without actually receiving it. Otherwise what happens to a vehicle that arrives in January?!

I’m guessing the factory have considered this when deciding on build dates for the RDE1 engines. Seems that week 45/46 are the final ones for those engines. They then know they’ll get these delivered by the end of the year. That makes sense for anyone that has ordered and has a factory confirmed build date. They will get their van before January and have the guarantee of not worrying about the possible B***** tax. The rest of us with no confirmed build date will just have to wait and hope a deal gets done.

 

[SSmithHerts]

I’m guessing the factory have considered this when deciding on build dates for the RDE1 engines. Seems that week 45/46 are the final ones for those engines. They then know they’ll get these delivered by the end of the year. That makes sense for anyone that has ordered and has a factory confirmed build date. They will get their van before January and have the guarantee of not worrying about the possible B***** tax. The rest of us with no confirmed build date will just have to wait and hope a deal gets done.

Going to be an interesting conversation with my dealer next week as no way will I pay either the B-tax or the £1,056 uplift for RDE2. Will be looking for written guarantee. Will VW take the risk of orders pre October being cancelled by customers have pre-agreed prices that dealers can’t deliver?

 

[Dassy1308]

Going to be an interesting conversation with my dealer next week as no way will I pay either the B-tax or the £1,056 uplift for RDE2. Will be looking for written guarantee. Will VW take the risk of orders pre October being cancelled by customers have pre-agreed prices that dealers can’t deliver?

Yup probably they will, assuming the vehicles can be registered prior to 31/12 (which they can even without the vehicle being physically present). I expect we’ll see quite a few pre-regs (eg 199 RDE1s) available in late Jan....prices tba but if 204 RDE2s aren’t going to arrive until late March at earliest then my guess their screen price will be higher than the originally pre-agreed figure.

 

[PhilR]

If you ordered before October 1st you will not have to pay any extra. Dealer confirmed this to me.

 

[CamperFam]

If you ordered before October 1st you will not have to pay any extra. Dealer confirmed this to me.

Literally the opposite to the wording of the contract.

 

[Wogga]

If you ordered before October 1st you will not have to pay any extra. Dealer confirmed this to me.

I agree, I don't think any dealer is going to risk a cancellation on £65-70k van order for £880 they will take the hit I am sure.

 

[PhilR]

Literally the opposite to the wording of the contract.

We are talking about list price of the vehicle here. I don’t think that is mentioned in the contract. Yes the contract mentions any tax or import duties having to be paid, but if you paid a deposit on a vehicle at a certain price, for us before the October price rise, you are locked into a contract at the price stated on it. This is why people on here were talking about ordering before October.

 

[ReinholdMessner]

It's conceivable that we've signed different T&Cs (these things do change) but what mine tell me is consistent with what Kallista appears to be saying. I've copied the relevant part below so that we're all clear on how I've got to this answer, and we're looking at Clause 7.a.i on the tax issue (where we seem to all agree that increases in tax/duty/etc can be passed on to the customer), and 7.a.ii.

My reading of 7.a.ii is that if the RRP of the goods increases from what I agreed to, the Manufacturer/Dealer has to notify me, and then I have a right to serve notice of cancellation. BUT if I don't serve that notice, I instead have to pay the new, higher, price.

What 7.a.ii definitely doesn't say - in my copy at least - is that the lower price continues to apply even where the RRP increases. It's a "pay up or cancel" clause. Now it's possible that the Manufacturer/Dealer will agree to vary the T&Cs, but that's what they say right here right now.

 

[PhilR]

It's conceivable that we've signed different T&Cs (these things do change) but what mine tell me is consistent with what Kallista appears to be saying. I've copied the relevant part below so that we're all clear on how I've got to this answer, and we're looking at Clause 7.a.i on the tax issue (where we seem to all agree that increases in tax/duty/etc can be passed on to the customer), and 7.a.ii.

My reading of 7.a.ii is that if the RRP of the goods increases from what I agreed to, the Manufacturer/Dealer has to notify me, and then I have a right to serve notice of cancellation. BUT if I don't serve that notice, I instead have to pay the new, higher, price.

What 7.a.ii definitely doesn't say - in my copy at least - is that the lower price continues to apply even where the RRP increases. It's a "pay up or cancel" clause. Now it's possible that the Manufacturer/Dealer will agree to vary the T&Cs, but that's what they say right here right now.

View attachment 67614

That’s great, thanks for clearing that up. I apologise as I was wrong. But I just went on what my dealer said to me. Maybe as Wogga says, the dealer is never going to cancel an order for £880 though.

 

[ReinholdMessner]

Yes, the point about the £880 is probably where we'll end up (and for what it's worth, I hope it is as I'm a 30 September order date!)

 

[Wogga]

That’s great, thanks for clearing that up. I apologise as I was wrong. But I just went on what my dealer said to me. Maybe as Wogga says, the dealer is never going to cancel an order for £880 though.

They would be p*++#d if they did, besides Phil he hasn't served you notice, quite opposite he has told you verbally. Looking at Guys reputation and length of service I doubt he would tell you a whopper.

Was there any news on when the were starting to produce 150 RDE2's?

 

[PhilR]

Yes, the point about the £880 is probably where we'll end up (and for what it's worth, I hope it is as I'm a 30 September order date!)

11th September for me. Like I said my dealer has already assured me the price will not rise. He was just a little embarrassed I think having to tell me I’ve now got to wait until March or April rather than December.

They would be p*++#d if they did, besides Phil he hasn't served you notice, quite opposite he has told you verbally. Looking at Guys reputation and length of service I doubt he would tell you a whopper.

Was there any news on when the were starting to produce 150 RDE2's?

Yep. Guy is great. (I just replied at the same time as you!).

 

[Saul B]

It's conceivable that we've signed different T&Cs (these things do change) but what mine tell me is consistent with what Kallista appears to be saying. I've copied the relevant part below so that we're all clear on how I've got to this answer, and we're looking at Clause 7.a.i on the tax issue (where we seem to all agree that increases in tax/duty/etc can be passed on to the customer), and 7.a.ii.

My reading of 7.a.ii is that if the RRP of the goods increases from what I agreed to, the Manufacturer/Dealer has to notify me, and then I have a right to serve notice of cancellation. BUT if I don't serve that notice, I instead have to pay the new, higher, price.

What 7.a.ii definitely doesn't say - in my copy at least - is that the lower price continues to apply even where the RRP increases. It's a "pay up or cancel" clause. Now it's possible that the Manufacturer/Dealer will agree to vary the T&Cs, but that's what they say right here right now.

View attachment 67614

I wouldn’t disagree with the contract

But,

UK assumptions between Dealers/Customers - in my experience are:

Brexit tariff applies = either pay +£% or deposit refunded

RDE 2 delivered = pay the original quote

Ordered prior 1st Oct = pay the original quote

(Assumes you can live with an RDE 2 and the associated delivery date)

 

[WelshGas]

Hi, what do you need to provide to the chat to get those information? Tks


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

The Chat Line mentioned is for UK VWs only. There might be the equivalent where you are.

 

[testpilottimmy]

I wouldn’t disagree with the contract

But,

UK assumptions between Dealers/Customers - in my experience are:

Brexit tariff applies = either pay +£% or deposit refunded

RDE 2 delivered = pay the original quote

Ordered prior 1st Oct = pay the original quote

(Assumes you can live with an RDE 2 and the associated delivery date)

This is my understanding as well, though there would be negotiations around any Brexit tax.
I have emailed my dealer today to try and confirm where we are with our build week as they did say the dealership had available build slots when we ordered. I guess that doesn’t prevent the factory changing things.

In a way at least this means any Brexit tax is a known entity in advance. We will either get a 199 in December with no import tax or a 204 in March / April with a period of time to consider or negotiate on any price increase.

 

[Rololux]

Ordered 30th May - arrived at the dealers this week! Pick it up on the 21st. Hang on in there guys - the wait eventually ends!!!

 

[Thepuma]

Hopefully not, but some.of you guys may get hit with a double whammy..The £880 for the 204 update AND the 10% brexit tax if there's a delay in manufacturing. That could add £8000 on for some people and surely nobody would pay that.

I'm in the market to buy new but have decided to hold on for now incasevtheres a glut of cancelled orders come January.

 

[Jenny H]

Ordered 30th May - arrived at the dealers this week! Pick it up on the 21st. Hang on in there guys - the wait eventually ends!!!View attachment 67627

Congratulations - fab colour too!

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

Hopefully not, but some.of you guys may get hit with a double whammy..The £880 for the 204 update AND the 10% brexit tax if there's a delay in manufacturing. That could add £8000 on for some people and surely nobody would pay that.

I'm in the market to buy new but have decided to hold on for now incasevtheres a glut of cancelled orders come January.

I think somebody previously suggested that the import duty is applied to the cost that VWUK pay VWDE for the vehicle NOT the showroom price that the punter pays. So, on a £70k vehicle the duty would be less than £7k. Goodness knows what VWUK pays for the vehicle and they are unlikely to go ‘open book’ on it.

 

[ReinholdMessner]

I think somebody previously suggested that the import duty is applied to the cost that VWUK pay VWDE for the vehicle NOT the showroom price that the punter pays. So, on a £70k vehicle the duty would be less than £7k. Goodness knows what VWUK pays for the vehicle and they are unlikely to go ‘open book’ on it.

Pretty much, yes.

Assuming the Customs Duty Code/Regs which currently apply to imports to the EC from the Rest Of The World is just copied over with the title changed (we're currently bound by the EC import rules, and I'm guessing nobody has time to start from scratch before January to come up with a new set) then the first method of valuation is essentially the price paid by the "importer" to their immediate supplier - which is presumably what VWUK/dealer pays to VW Germany, for want of a better way of describing them.

I'd be surprised if anybody on this forum really knows how VW will value their imports, or which valuation method they'll use and to what (if any) extent the rules of preferential origin would kick in, so we're all flying blind (unless anyone works for VW in their Customs Duty team). But the one thing I can say with some confidence is that the UK VAT-inclusive retail price of the vehicle isn't going to be the value that any 10% import Duty is applied to, but it'll be something lower, and probably quite a lot lower.

I should caveat that despite working in "indirect tax" so in theory having a headstart on this stuff over the man in the street, it's been a long time since Duty was ever a real professional concern so there might be some time and age-related loss of detail in the above!

 

[PhilR]

Ordered 30th May - arrived at the dealers this week! Pick it up on the 21st. Hang on in there guys - the wait eventually ends!!!View attachment 67627

Very nice! Pleased for you. Don’t forget to post plenty of pictures - not too many Mojave 6.1 pictures about.

 

[Thepuma]

In reality, I'd be gobsmacked if German car dealers just accept losing 20% of their trade just because the EU wants to play hard ball with the UK over Brexit. It would be financial suicide for EU manufacturers if the EU try to make an example of us.

 

[Rololux]

Very nice! Pleased for you. Don’t forget to post plenty of pictures - not too many Mojave 6.1 pictures about.

Thanks Phil. Indeed, even though Mojave is often used in promotional pics, you don’t see too many about. One of the reasons we picked it is to try not to stand out too much - they may look nice, but flashy vans can attract unwanted attention. Especially useful when stealth camping!

 

[SSmithHerts]

Our problem (for all you with orders in like me) is that we’re after a commodity that’s in high demand. If you check out the national car selling websites a nearly new ocean is £80k and anything 2 years old is close to £60k. With discounts negotiated I’m sure we’re not far from that for vans to our spec, full warranty and of course 6.1. So going used isn’t really something to use as a bargaining tool. I can see lots of us having to weigh up paying a £5k premium to get what we want.