Oil Comsumption / Engine Problems with 2010/2011 Cali's

[Perfectos]

WG as much as I admire your defence of the facts the poor guy has a shot engine that’s drinking oil, the semantics of the VW TPI are slightly irrelevant, the engine is still shot or at least needs some money spending to correct it, I think it’s great that you have not experienced any issues with your van, but sadly the OP doesn’t have your Van.

the op stated the facts :
”latest to fall for the high oil consumption problem.”
“Now I’m finding that I need to add over 1/2 litre every 1k miles.”
it was the high use of oil that led the OP to look into the issues, which brought his attention to a wider subject & if fitting a new engine would provide future trouble free motoring And asking if anyone has any experience?

 

[WelshGas]

WG as much as I admire your defence of the facts the poor guy has a shot engine that’s drinking oil, the semantics of the VW TPI are slightly irrelevant, the engine is still shot or at least needs some money spending to correct it, I think it’s great that you have not experienced any issues with your van, but sadly the OP doesn’t have your Van.

the op stated the facts :
”latest to fall for the high oil consumption problem.”
“Now I’m finding that I need to add over 1/2 litre every 1k miles.”
it was the high use of oil that led the OP to look into the issues, which brought his attention to a wider subject & if fitting a new engine would provide future trouble free motoring And asking if anyone has any experience?

The fact that the vehicle has a 2010/2011 CFCA engine means the problem is recognised by VW, and a detailed repair process. Whether they will offer any goodwill after 12 +yrs is a different matter.

Post 2010/2011 CFCA engines have a different problem. This is not recognised by VW as it is so random. In fact NO ONE has yet come up with any theory why some EGR's , A,B,C and D revisions, break down and damage the engines.

 

[2into1]

Yawn WelshGas. They are all prey to possible failure from the egr. Yes the earlier ones had an additional issue as your 400 jpegs that you trot out each month testify. The self destructing egr didn't start to be fitted when your tpi ended.

For the latest member with the problem.... Retro reus are the folks to talk to build a plan. It sounds as if they at least can bring a knowledgeable, expert and efficient end to your problems. There does seem to be some debate about the /D egr cooler. It was previously thought to be sound, but many are still preferring to blank it out.... Which makes me think why not stick the old one back on it blanking out... Unless the new egr comes with engine? Retro reus will explain.

 

[WelshGas]

Yawn WelshGas. They are all prey to possible failure from the egr. Yes the earlier ones had an additional issue as your 400 jpegs that you trot out each month testify. The self destructing egr didn't start to be fitted when your tpi ended.

For the latest member with the problem.... Retro reus are the folks to talk to build a plan. It sounds as if they at least can bring a knowledgeable, expert and efficient end to your problems. There does seem to be some debate about the /D egr cooler. It was previously thought to be sound, but many are still preferring to blank it out.... Which makes me think why not stick the old one back on it blanking out... Unless the new egr comes with engine? Retro reus will explain.

Just because you don’t understand the difference between 2010/2011 CFCA engines , accepted by VW at the time, and the later CFCA engines with a problem , attributed to failing EGRs suffix A,B,C and D, is not my problem. In fact it is interesting that no one has been able to show that the EGR is the root cause rather than a symptom of some other problem, because if the EGR was the root cause then I would expect them all to fail. They don’t.

I will continue to explain the difference between 2010/2011 and post 2012 engines, even if you find it boring and incapable of understanding the difference. Sorry, so get yawning.

 

[flying banana]

How much is an egr cooler swap? Is it worth changing the sodding thing every couple of years?

 

[WelshGas]

How much is an egr cooler swap? Is it worth changing the sodding thing every couple of years?

If one knows, or anyone knows, why the one EGR cooler starts breaking down and others don’t then that is a possibility, but I think it would be better to determine why some self destruct and others don’t in the first place.

 

[B J G]

Yawn WelshGas. They are all prey to possible failure from the egr. Yes the earlier ones had an additional issue as your 400 jpegs that you trot out each month testify. The self destructing egr didn't start to be fitted when your tpi ended.

For the latest member with the problem.... Retro reus are the folks to talk to build a plan. It sounds as if they at least can bring a knowledgeable, expert and efficient end to your problems. There does seem to be some debate about the /D egr cooler. It was previously thought to be sound, but many are still preferring to blank it out.... Which makes me think why not stick the old one back on it blanking out... Unless the new egr comes with engine? Retro reus will explain.

There is the illegal aspect that comes with altering the emissions system. It also makes insurance invalid as illegal modifications aren't accepted by the insurance world.
All modifications must be declared.

 

[Perfectos]

The fact that the vehicle has a 2010/2011 CFCA engine means the problem is recognised by VW, and a detailed repair process. Whether they will offer any goodwill after 12 +yrs is a different matter.

Post 2010/2011 CFCA engines have a different problem. This is not recognised by VW as it is so random. In fact NO ONE has yet come up with any theory why some EGR's , A,B,C and D revisions, break down and damage the engines.

The real sad fact of these issues is:

Second hand BI turbos are a potential risk whatever year !

The Tpi does nothing to explain why Bi turbo engines. Experience higher levels of premature failure than others ?
nor does it offer any solace to those affected

I agree VW are highly unlikely to assist most owners financially, leaving owner, new and old, with a very hefty bill just to keep the vehicle on the road (what are the alternatives Owners have ? )

I have three good friends looking for vans, I could not and will not recommend a Bi turbo 180 simply because of the potential unexplained (by VW) issues that could present them leading the owner to experience a £10k bill on top of the output head price .

regardless of whether the issues with the 180 are a known by VW or if they simply could become an issue & the potential financial consequence should be a consideration for most when considering the purchase of a BI turbo 180 !
For that reason I would specifically advise them (my friends) that the Bi turbo 180 engine would best be avoided at all costs, simply because the real life experience noted by others And the lack of clarity surrounding the BI turbo 180 engine obvious and wide spread premature failures can Be avoid simply by totally discounting that engine Choice. (Despite knowing many 180s never experience premature catastrophe)

 

[WelshGas]

The real sad fact of these issues is:

Second hand BI turbos are a potential risk whatever year !

The Tpi does nothing to explain why Bi turbo engines. Experience higher levels of premature failure than others ?
nor does it offer any solace to those affected

I agree VW are highly unlikely to assist an most owners financially, leaving owner, new and old, with a very hefty bill just to keep the vehicle on the road (what are the alternatives Owners have ? )

I have three good friends looking for vans, I could not and will not recommend a Bi turbo 180 simply because of the potential unexplained (by VW) issues that could present them leading the owner to experience a £10k bill on top of the output head price .

regardless of whether the issues with the 180 are a known by VW or if they simply could become an issue & the potential financial consequence should be a consideration for most when considering the purchase of a BI turbo 180 !
For that reason I would specifically advise them (my friends) that the Bi turbo 180 engine would best be avoided at all costs, simply because the real life experience noted by others And the lack of clarity surrounding the BI turbo 180 engine obvious and wide spread premature failures can Be avoid simply by totally discounting that engine Choice. (Despite knowing many 180s never experience premature catastrophe)

Or, you purchase with a very significant discount to compensate for the possibility.
As long as due diligence has been done and you purchase knowing what may happen , or not.
But at least be honest . 2010/2011 engines, if on the TPI list will have a problem not related to the EGR.

Post 2011 engines may have a problem relating to breakdown of the EGR caused by “ Who knows what “. It’s a gamble, as with most 2nd hand vehicles.

 

[2into1]

But at least be honest . 2010/2011 engines, if on the TPI list will have a problem not related to the EGR.

No.
2010/11 engines may have a problem related to the TPI...... but ALL cfca engines (2010 to 2015/6) may have a problem related to the EGR.

The issues overlap, they do not follow in series as your last posts suggests.

 

[WelshGas]

No.
2010/11 engines may have a problem related to the TPI...... but ALL cfca engines (2010 to 2015/6) may have a problem related to the EGR.

The issues overlap, they do not follow in series as your last posts suggests.

I’m afraid you are incorrect.

 

[KickingK99]

Thanks all for the information.

Whatever the cause of the problem, I need to know wether a replacement engine will (potentially) encounter the same issues 50k down the line.

"Once engine etc replaced, it will be like a new van." It’s for how long will it be like a new van that concerns me.

 

[Perfectos]

Thanks all for the information.

Whatever the cause of the problem, I need to know wether a replacement engine will (potentially) encounter the same issues 50k down the line.

"Once engine etc replaced, it will be like a new van." It’s for how long will it be like a new van that concerns me.

Some further reading without the emotional context often deliver here .

I hope this helps rather than hinders

Search results for query: Cfca

www.t6forum.com

 

[WelshGas]

Thanks all for the information.

Whatever the cause of the problem, I need to know wether a replacement engine will (potentially) encounter the same issues 50k down the line.

"Once engine etc replaced, it will be like a new van." It’s for how long will it be like a new van that concerns me.

Replacing your 2010/2011 engine will get rid of the manufacturing problem . So you will start off with a clean slate.
As far as the EGR issue is concerned that is still a possibility, although a rare possibility. You can have the latest revision D EGR fitted, but there have been reports that the D has caused problems, why, no one knows.
You can have the EGR mapped out. I’m not sure how that effects the EGR cooler and it may/may not effect emissions.
I suggest discussing the way forward with some experts.

Personally I would get the engine replaced and use it. Use it regularly and don’t leave it laid up for weeks and weeks at a time.

 

[2into1]

I’m afraid you are incorrect.

Don't be afraid, just explain why then!
I'm looking forward to hearing your explanation since ALL 180 cfca engines had the cooler that everyone (except WelshGas) accepts sometimes fail, crumble and wreck engines by breathing in the resulting diamond hard particles and scoring the cylinder bores.
The TPI is an interesting side show for early 180s, but runs in parallel with egr / cooler failure.

To those new here, this argument occurs every few months and at this point WelshGas resorts to some linguistic juggling arguing cfca (180hp) failing egr coolers don't cause engine death in the same way as smoking doesn't cause lung cancer. I'm sure he'll do that in a few minutes.

 

[WelshGas]

Don't be afraid, just explain why then!
I'm looking forward to hearing your explanation since ALL 180 cfca engines had the cooler that everyone (except WelshGas) accepts sometimes fail, crumble and wreck engines by breathing in the resulting diamond hard particles and scoring the cylinder bores.
The TPI is an interesting side show for early 180s, but runs in parallel with egr / cooler failure.

To those new here, this argument occurs every few months and at this point WelshGas resorts to some linguistic juggling arguing cfca (180hp) failing egr coolers don't cause engine death in the same way as smoking doesn't cause lung cancer. I'm sure he'll do that in a few minutes.

Once again, a lost argument and you resort to the same old twisted version.
There are 10 significant causes of Lung Cancers, the same number as the fingers on your 2 hands, try counting them. Also check the Mayo Clinic website or Cancer U.K. website .
Its about time you came up with some Class A evidence for your inaccurate comments.
Oh, but you can’t because there isn’t any.

 

[2into1]

Once again, a lost argument and you resort to the same old twisted version.
There are 10 significant causes of Lung Cancers, the same number as the fingers on your 2 hands, try counting them. Also check the Mayo Clinic website or Cancer U.K. website .
Its about time you came up with some Class A evidence for your inaccurate comments.
Oh, but you can’t because there isn’t any.

There we go, as predicted.
So if you don't believe the link between smoking and lung cancer, there is absolutely no need to worry about 180hp cfca egr coolers. If however you live in the real world....

 

[Perfectos]

The facts are out in real life situations for all to interpret.
the 180 engine has some significant issues in real life situation, some fail some don’t fact .
The same way smoking causes cancer in some and not in others, which is a great analogy, (if you don’t happen to have cancer), no thyme or reason to the issue presenting a fatal prognosis!
the fact is if you smoke you’re more likey to get cancer, the same for 180 Bi turbo, if you buy one expect the unexpected!
it’s a distinct possibility that a 180 BI turbo will require open heart surgery sooner that a non 180 bi turbo.
The advice to Purchase with “ a very significant discount to compensate for the possibility. As long as due diligence has been done and you purchase knowing what may happen , or not.”
what due diligence can be carried out to a highly variable fatal condition?
It Is no solace for those suffering a £10k bill to simply keep the vehicle on the road following an unexplained failure particularly with no support from VW or proper prognosis

 

[WelshGas]

There we go, as predicted.
So if you don't believe the link between smoking and lung cancer, there is absolutely no need to worry about 180hp cfca egr coolers. If however you live in the real world....

And where exactly did I state that?
Just because you are unable to understand the facts, or that they are stated in ways beyond your educational understanding doesn't mean they are inaccurate. Smoking is just one of 10 causes recognised by the experts, but is not the only one, but as I have said previously this is something beyond your understanding. But if it makes you happy continuing to spout these inaccuracies then continue to do so. Have good day.

 

[WelshGas]

The facts are out in real life situations for all to interpret.
the 180 engine has some significant issues in real life situation, some fail some don’t fact .
The same way smoking causes cancer in some and not in others, which is a great analogy, (if you don’t happen to have cancer), no thyme or reason to the issue presenting a fatal prognosis!
the fact is if you smoke you’re more likey to get cancer, the same for 180 Bi turbo, if you buy one expect the unexpected!
it’s a distinct possibility that a 180 BI turbo will require open heart surgery sooner that a non 180 bi turbo.
The advice to Purchase with “ a very significant discount to compensate for the possibility. As long as due diligence has been done and you purchase knowing what may happen , or not.”
what due diligence can be carried out to a highly variable fatal condition?
It Is no solace for those suffering a £10k bill to simply keep the vehicle on the road following an unexplained failure particularly with no support from VW or proper prognosis

Due diligence, if you know about the possible problems and decide to go ahead. A prospective purchaser may have the facilities to undertake the remedial work if there are problems or the finance to pay others to do it. But to boldly say not to buy for any reason is inaccurate. Purchase of any high cost item is fraught with possible problems and you minimise them by carrying out due diligence.

If every EGR failed on every 180 then that is a very different scenario. They don't and no one knows why. So you purchase one knowing what might happen/ or not
Many things in life are a gamble and you minimise the risks by taking an educated decision or not depending on what level of risk you are prepared to accept.

 

[Perfectos]

Inaccurate ?
I stated I would not and could not recommend my friends to buy one, that’s my / their choice tge is nothing inaccurate in the statement.

due diligence is a knowledge tool used to mitigate against risk , you can’t mitigate against unknown variables?

why take an unnecessary gamble when you could just avoid the potential issue totally ?

 

[WelshGas]

Don't be afraid, just explain why then!
I'm looking forward to hearing your explanation since ALL 180 cfca engines had the cooler that everyone (except WelshGas) accepts sometimes fail, crumble and wreck engines by breathing in the resulting diamond hard particles and scoring the cylinder bores.
The TPI is an interesting side show for early 180s, but runs in parallel with egr / cooler failure.

To those new here, this argument occurs every few months and at this point WelshGas resorts to some linguistic juggling arguing cfca (180hp) failing egr coolers don't cause engine death in the same way as smoking doesn't cause lung cancer. I'm sure he'll do that in a few minutes.

As you are either purposely obtuse or incapable of understanding, take it up with the experts.

Risks and causes of lung cancer

Certain factors can increase your risk of developing lung cancer, such as smoking or exposure to certain chemicals.

www.cancerresearchuk.org

As far as the EGR is concerned it seems you are incapable of understanding the following.
1. Breakdown of the EGR cooler releases Aluminium Oxide which causes cylinder bore damage.. That is not disputed by anyone, not even me contrary to your comments.
2. If the EGR is the root cause why are only a relatively small number of EGR units affected. Is it a manufacturing fault affecting a small number of units?
3. Are the EGR units free of manufacturing faults but are being damaged by something else, maybe a combination of the lubricants + contaminants affecting the alloy.
4. Maybe the way the vehicle is used/driven. Many are relatively low annual milage and maybe prolonged periods of inactivity combined with the lubricant and contamination etc is responsible.
5. The EGR valve is not manufactured by VW but by a 3rd party and I very much doubt if there is a special VW alloy and manufacturing process just for VW.

By all means continue posting your inaccurate comments and I will continue responding.

 

[2into1]

@WelshGas. I don't need to undertake a degree in oncology nor a further in engineering to see what happens here.

The hypothesis (that the egr cooler breakdown is the root cause of premature death by excessive oil consumption of these engines) is undisputed by the 2000+ members of the Facebook group dedicated to this issue, and everyone here except (publicly) you (and a couple that that statement may bring out of the shadows).

It doesn't need me to scientifically prove it. It just needs forum members to share that opinion when members report another engine death and £10k bill. Unfortunately each time that happens, you censor and throw doubt over the situation.

It's good to see you are gradually nudging towards acceptance - only now stopping short of accepting it's the 'core' issue.
You've come so far.
I don't see you need to continue to be as pedantic nor insulting towards my intelligence.

Folk hurriedly and excitedly rushing to secure a 180 Cali don't want to read at that level of detail nor study the 10gb of TPIs that you trot out each time.

VW are still in denial and we don't need you and your well earned reputation adding to that. Folk are still buying afflicted vans (dumped by dubious sellers) and are still failing for VW's advice to spend thousands on new turbos and egrs. This forum needs to counteract that.

 

[WelshGas]

@WelshGas. I don't need to undertake a degree in oncology nor a further in engineering to see what happens here.

The hypothesis (that the egr cooler breakdown is the root cause of premature death by excessive oil consumption of these engines) is undisputed by the 2000+ members of the Facebook group dedicated to this issue, and everyone here except (publicly) you (and a couple that that statement may bring out of the shadows).

It doesn't need me to scientifically prove it. It just needs forum members to share that opinion when members report another engine death and £10k bill. Unfortunately each time that happens, you censor and throw doubt over the situation.

It's good to see you are gradually nudging towards acceptance - only now stopping short of accepting it's the 'core' issue.
You've come so far.
I don't see you need to continue to be as pedantic nor insulting towards my intelligence.

Folk hurriedly and excitedly rushing to secure a 180 Cali don't want to read at that level of detail nor study the 10gb of TPIs that you trot out each time.

VW are still in denial and we don't need you and your well earned reputation adding to that. Folk are still buying afflicted vans (dumped by dubious sellers) and are still failing for VW's advice to spend thousands on new turbos and egrs. This forum needs to counteract that.

Once again you twist the facts to suit your theory.
No one, not even me , has denied that the Aluminium Oxide particles come from the EGR.

Now hold onto that thought or even write it down.

Now explain Why some EGR valves break down and some do not?