Oil Comsumption / Engine Problems with 2010/2011 Cali's

[2into1]

They knew that my concern was the EGR valve so by the time I arrived they had arranged for a local VW dealer they use to check and record the compression and the supply and install a brand new EGR valve! They will cover the cost and supply documentation and receipts so I have proof of the work before purchase and for resale.

Excellent result!
Regarding the 1% figure, No one knows but I think that's a very generous interpretation! So good news yours is as safe as can be.

 

[sprout99]

Hello all

Been a while since I posted but this subject is close to all of us.

We have a july 2011 california SE 180. And it's right on the cusp of the good bad debate with regards to the forum discussions about what was fixed when. Egr this and that. Oil usage. Bad engines. Worn pistons blah blah

I would like to add my ten penneth. I work in diesel engine development and specifically emissions systems so know quite a bit about Egr.

That aside I have been monitoring oil use in our van. As. Mentioned. Mid 2011. 180ps. 95k on clock. Full vw history until we bought it. Used regularly and we drive it normally.

So my observations.

1. If driven hard and sustained high speeds on motorway I get some oil use. But its a big heavy lump with a mediocre engine for its weight.

2. Oil use increases as oil gets degraded through heat, carbon build up and dilution from DPF regen

I have noted this through 2 services now.

I have recently serviced the van and new oil. No usage. I will guarantee as it degrades oil consumption will go up.

So asides from the carbon build up and DPF regen dilution of the oil with fuel. I am pretty much convinced that the 5w30 oil spec is not right for an engine that works pretty hard dragging it's 3 tonne mass about.

The oil temps are always touching 100deg C and at that temp very much at its lowest viscosity. This is also elevated during DPF regen.

When towing I have seen 120deg C which is a. Little scary.

So to summarise. I will monitor the degradation of the oil over time. It seems to start to change at approx 5000miles. Please consider what I've said in relation to your own vans. We've never had an emmisons light or Egr related fault

Maybe it's feasible that on post 2015 vans VW changed the mapping and adjusted the Egr and dpf strategies to eliminate what I see as oil degrading due to carbon and fuel from Emissions control influences and high temp stability

Im tempted to try the 5w40 long life to see if this has an influence. This would be better at higher temps.

And therefore more viscous and less likely to have pass the pistons rings.

During the last service I did an engine flush to try and remove any carbon build ups and then added some liqui moly oil additive. Van runs a lot quieter for this who are interested.

Looking forward to hearing your observations

 

[B J G]

And therefore more viscous and less likely to have pass the pistons rings.

During the last service I did an engine flush to try and remove any carbon build ups and then added some liqui moly oil additive. Van runs a lot quieter for this who are interested.

Looking forward to hearing your observations

Thanks for passing on your findings.

Although a T6 the high oil temp has always bothered me.

Previously fitted oil coolers on cars with over 90 degrees temps although petrol cars designed to run at much lower temperatures than current diesels.

My T6 204 gave an oil change indication at approx 7,500mls which supports your findings, set for 2 year or 20,000mls oil change regime. I've seen others having similar mileage oil change requests.
I've actually done 3 oil changes by 15,000 miles (annual regardless of mileage) Flush done also at last oil change.

I hadn't thought of going to the 40 grade oil but seems logical for the high running temperature engines.

 

[sprout99]

Ours was set to. 2 years or 20,000 miles which is just crazy. So reduced it to 9500 miles or 15000km

I agree that oil temperature feels too high. We have a v10 touareg and that sits at 90-95 with way more heat being generated by the engine

Also fitted oil coolers to high performance engines.

The 5w40 was used in the PD engines where they needed that higher level of oil stability to avoid camshaft lobe wear


Im sure Egr failure is possible but my engineering brain thinks there is more to this and my own experience should be usefull

 

[TripleBee]

My service is set at 2 years, 30000km.
I always follow that regime, and up to now, I have never had any problems.
I just use the right oil according to VW: 504.00/507.00.
When I check after 1 year, I hardly have to add 0,5 liters of oil.
5 oil changes later, still no problem.
Oil temperature running between 95°C. - 118°C.
The highest number only in very hot weather climbing a steep mountain.
And then it's flat out in a given gear, so I am not saving my engine.

But if you like to change the prescribed oil, be my guest.

Oh, I only have the 140hp, and a new EGR cooler at 45000km.

 

[briwy]

I agree completely with your comments. IMO variable servicing is asking for trouble apart from the safety aspect of getting the van checked for any other problems. We have 2014 with Atype egr. Serviced every year and to date no consumption problems at 70k. Regular oil changes certainly help.
..

 

[willwander]

Hello all

Been a while since I posted but this subject is close to all of us.

We have a july 2011 california SE 180. And it's right on the cusp of the good bad debate with regards to the forum discussions about what was fixed when. Egr this and that. Oil usage. Bad engines. Worn pistons blah blah

I would like to add my ten penneth. I work in diesel engine development and specifically emissions systems so know quite a bit about Egr.

That aside I have been monitoring oil use in our van. As. Mentioned. Mid 2011. 180ps. 95k on clock. Full vw history until we bought it. Used regularly and we drive it normally.

So my observations.

1. If driven hard and sustained high speeds on motorway I get some oil use. But its a big heavy lump with a mediocre engine for its weight.

2. Oil use increases as oil gets degraded through heat, carbon build up and dilution from DPF regen

I have noted this through 2 services now.

I have recently serviced the van and new oil. No usage. I will guarantee as it degrades oil consumption will go up.

So asides from the carbon build up and DPF regen dilution of the oil with fuel. I am pretty much convinced that the 5w30 oil spec is not right for an engine that works pretty hard dragging it's 3 tonne mass about.

The oil temps are always touching 100deg C and at that temp very much at its lowest viscosity. This is also elevated during DPF regen.

When towing I have seen 120deg C which is a. Little scary.

So to summarise. I will monitor the degradation of the oil over time. It seems to start to change at approx 5000miles. Please consider what I've said in relation to your own vans. We've never had an emmisons light or Egr related fault

Maybe it's feasible that on post 2015 vans VW changed the mapping and adjusted the Egr and dpf strategies to eliminate what I see as oil degrading due to carbon and fuel from Emissions control influences and high temp stability

Im tempted to try the 5w40 long life to see if this has an influence. This would be better at higher temps.

And therefore more viscous and less likely to have pass the pistons rings.

During the last service I did an engine flush to try and remove any carbon build ups and then added some liqui moly oil additive. Van runs a lot quieter for this who are interested.

Looking forward to hearing your observations

I also found sustained motorway driving resulted in high oil use on my old 180. I’ve always been a bit sceptical of EGR failure being the only cause, your oil degradation theory makes sense. However, since they hold about 7L changing the oil every 5000miles means you’re still using more than 1L every 1000 miles, which is still awful.

We have a 1.4 polo diesel with 190,000 miles on the clock. It’s absolutely knackered, never gets serviced, but doesn’t use a drop of oil.
Good luck

 

[sprout99]

Quick update. At approx 96000miles I had noticed
Oil usage started to go up so decided to do an oil change.

The oil removed was like water but very contaminated.

SO.... Ive decided to try the 5w40 oil. I know this is essentially going against the manufacturer recommended waffle but I wanted to see what difference it naked to the situation.

First impressions are good. Will keep you guys up to date

 

[Max-Felix]

Oil was like water? You mean very thin or contaminated (ie like mayonaise)? Any sludge under the filler cap?

Either way if you are consuming oil then changing oil grade won't do anything!

 

[sprout99]

Thin yes and contaminated as in black which is normal for diesel.

I will find out. The 5w40 is better at high temps
And doesn't degrade as quick

 

[B J G]

I purchased one of these oil testers with a bit of doubt as to whether it was just a waste of funds and totally uninformative as to oil condition.

Tested on 3 vehicles.

Cali - pre oil change showed mid range and still in good category. After oil change was in the new clean oil category.

Citroen - pre oil and post oil change as per the Cali.

Old classic/historic car which had an engine rebuild approx 1,000 miles previously.
Came up with as bad an oil contamination as you could get, recheck still the same. Oil drained and checked - now came up as mid range.
Dropped the sump and found all the sludge from running in on the bottom and I'd 'sucked that up on the first test.
I used a length of windscreen washer pipe to suck up the oil and had pushed it down too far. Now use the dipstick length as a guide as to how far to insert the pipe. Using the dipstick took forever trying to get enough oil to test.

This device had found the metal that was in the sump from the bedding in process after the rebuild which gives me confidence that it will show any future problems brewing.

Car Digital Stroke Oil Quality Tester Motor Gas Diesel Analyzer Engine Detector | eBay

1 x Engine Oil Quality Detector. Works on trucks, tractors, boats, mowers, ATVs, motorcycles, or any gas or diesel four stroke engine. Select engine type GAS or DSL(diesel). Observe oil quality indicator lights.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[IanE]

Just sunning ourselves in southern France - Figeac - highly recommended, beautiful town. We would prefer not to be here for quite so long though. We were happily driving along off the motorway, so averaging c50mph, when the coil warning light came on and the message to take the van to a service centre (or similar wording). Argh!

We're with Green Flag who couldn't sort the problem so we were transported at our request to the nearest VW garage - Figeac (We were on our way back north via Brantome - also highly recommended).

The VW garage have been lovely, but they're very busy. All the above happened last Tuesday. Yesterday, Friday, they found time to confirm we needed a new egr valve - and they strongly recommended that we have some related parts replaced at the same time. I'm afraid I don't have details of them, my bad French and total lack of technical expertise left me and my wife, who has good French but even less tech skills than me, unable to understand further.

Anyhow, parts were ordered, a deposit taken, and the work can't be done until next Wednesday and will run into Thursday, so we will need hotel accommodation for us and our dog. This will be covered by Green Flag. We have been able to drive the van to rather a nice campsite within a ten minute cycle ride of the town centre. We have a trailer for the dog.

I'm not sure why I'm posting this - except to ask the experts whether having this work done means we are any less likely to have our 2010 180 van which has done 80,000miles, fall victim to the other dreaded issue requiring a new engine? That would make me feel better! We haven't had excessive oil consumption.

Happy camping!

(Needless to say the work is costing a small fortune - I'm kind of embarrassed to say how much for fear of people telling me I'm a mug - that wouldn't help. I suspect we could have it done more cheaply at home, but there you go. We're a bit stuck in foreign parts)

Ian

 

[briwy]

Well if it's not using excessive oil then the engine is currently ok. If, as alleged, the egr valve is the culprit for ruined engines then of course fitting a new later type should help. Personally I think regular oil changes and not using chesp fuel also helps.

 

[IanE]

Well if it's not using excessive oil then the engine is currently ok. If, as alleged, the egr valve is the culprit for ruined engines then of course fitting a new later type should help. Personally I think regular oil changes and not using chesp fuel also helps.

Thanks briwy- our van is serviced annually and we do a lot less than 10k in a year, so I guess we’ll continue to keep our fingers crossed

 

[2into1]

Yep, if you aren't consuming oil already, changing the egr to the latest /D revision is a step many have taken to try and keep things in good shape, so that should help you feel a bit better!

 

[IanE]

Thanks for that! We’re hoping to pick it up with the work done on Wednesday, then hurtling up to the chunnel

 

[g0cew]

My 2010 180 DSG...51000 miles.

Last few trips (it's hardly been used last few years) it's using oil...last couple of trips it's gone from full dipstick to nothing on dipstick and oil warning light in approx 350 miles....expensive but is this undue cause for concern ?

Anybody else for similar experiences ...?

Thanks

Sounds like engine has never run in the bores glaze there’s only a couple of remedies for this glaze bust from millers oils or strip down new rings glaze bust the bores very popular problem and I tend to prefer rings with cast iron 2nd ring not chrome

 

[2into1]

Sounds like engine has never run in

Bit of homework required I think.

 

[g0cew]

Well done lots over the years even had kolbeschmit in Germany send new rings it’s a very touchy subject all a5 petrols were recalled todays oils are not good for running in most people jump in give some stick during the first 1000 miles if it’s not been driven hard the oil which contains synthetics adheres to the bore before the rings have created a perfect seal so therefore the 2nd ring has a bevel which creates a backward seal because this seal is not fully formed oil is drawn up to the piston crown and burnt back in the days of sae 30 grade this was used for running in today I reccomend don’t dally about and it will bed in nurse it and you have oil consumption hope this is of intrest spent years on this one

 

[2into1]

Well done lots over the years even had kolbeschmit in Germany send new rings it’s a very touchy subject all a5 petrols were recalled todays oils are not good for running in most people jump in give some stick during the first 1000 miles if it’s not been driven hard the oil which contains synthetics adheres to the bore before the rings have created a perfect seal so therefore the 2nd ring has a bevel which creates a backward seal because this seal is not fully formed oil is drawn up to the piston crown and burnt back in the days of sae 30 grade this was used for running in today I reccomend don’t dally about and it will bed in nurse it and you have oil consumption hope this is of intrest spent years on this one

If you read up, the egr effectively dumps a diet of carborundum grit into the combustion chambers. Not sure different rings would cope with that.

 

[KGCali]

Finally found a clear copy of ...
VW TPI 2039830/11
CFCA engine, oil consumption too high
This relates to the early 2010/2011 CFCA engine wear.issue NOT the EGR issue...
A new base engine up to engine number 123576
A new short engine from engine number 123577

Shocking that VW no longer appear to be offering any good will payment towards a new engine.
Full pdf document here ...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://f01.justanswer.com/350matt/15bb861f-3219-4e70-a67f-b0983f071895_t5%2Boil%2Bconsumption.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiu5Z_QlJD7AhWKSEEAHTblBloQFnoECBUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw273kIEYyjhztxTDss0HZL-

 

[KickingK99]

Unfortunately, it looks like my vw Cali se 180 2010 reg is the latest to fall for the high oil consumption problem.
Bought in the summer of 2019 with around 34k on the clock, there is now 53k on the clock. It has been serviced (not at a main dealer) every year since purchase and has never required an oil top up. Now I’m finding that I need to add over 1/2 litre every 1k miles.
I’m currently in France but will be nursing the van home this week, and will get it looked at home.
I have only now discovered the horror stories around the egr theory, and the possibility of requiring a new engine. The egr fitted to my engine is the original as it has no A,B,C or D at the end of the model code.
My question is, following a replacement engine, should the van run for a further 200k without the same thing happening again, as one used to expect from a vw transporter? Does anyone have any experience on this matter.

 

[KGCali]

Unfortunately, it looks like my vw Cali se 180 2010 reg is the latest to fall for the high oil consumption problem.
Bought in the summer of 2019 with around 34k on the clock, there is now 53k on the clock. It has been serviced (not at a main dealer) every year since purchase and has never required an oil top up. Now I’m finding that I need to add over 1/2 litre every 1k miles.
I’m currently in France but will be nursing the van home this week, and will get it looked at home.
I have only now discovered the horror stories around the egr theory, and the possibility of requiring a new engine. The egr fitted to my engine is the original as it has no A,B,C or D at the end of the model code.
My question is, following a replacement engine, should the van run for a further 200k without the same thing happening again, as one used to expect from a vw transporter? Does anyone have any experience on this matter.

Had the same happen to my 2010 SE 4Motion late last year but with 110k miles on it. Started drinking oil at 1 litre per 1000 miles, still ran fine but I needed a reliable motor so I gave up and went to Retro Resus for a new engine, turbo, flywheel and clutch plus new 4Motion pump, new N75 Moo vales and a few other small jobs. All done in a week, new 'D' EGR fitted and blanked and tuned out for about £9k. Worth it as I'll be keeping my Cali for many years. Runs like a dream now and no oil usage! As the EGR is blanked then no aluminium can get into the cylinders etc to destroy the new engine and the dpf is regenerating fine (had it professionally cleaned).
Worth getting a compression check, oil analysis and turbo seals checked first to rule out the obvious issues.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

Unfortunately, it looks like my vw Cali se 180 2010 reg is the latest to fall for the high oil consumption problem.
Bought in the summer of 2019 with around 34k on the clock, there is now 53k on the clock. It has been serviced (not at a main dealer) every year since purchase and has never required an oil top up. Now I’m finding that I need to add over 1/2 litre every 1k miles.
I’m currently in France but will be nursing the van home this week, and will get it looked at home.
I have only now discovered the horror stories around the egr theory, and the possibility of requiring a new engine. The egr fitted to my engine is the original as it has no A,B,C or D at the end of the model code.
My question is, following a replacement engine, should the van run for a further 200k without the same thing happening again, as one used to expect from a vw transporter? Does anyone have any experience on this matter.

Once engine etc replaced, it will be like a new van.

 

[WelshGas]

Unfortunately, it looks like my vw Cali se 180 2010 reg is the latest to fall for the high oil consumption problem.
Bought in the summer of 2019 with around 34k on the clock, there is now 53k on the clock. It has been serviced (not at a main dealer) every year since purchase and has never required an oil top up. Now I’m finding that I need to add over 1/2 litre every 1k miles.
I’m currently in France but will be nursing the van home this week, and will get it looked at home.
I have only now discovered the horror stories around the egr theory, and the possibility of requiring a new engine. The egr fitted to my engine is the original as it has no A,B,C or D at the end of the model code.
My question is, following a replacement engine, should the van run for a further 200k without the same thing happening again, as one used to expect from a vw transporter? Does anyone have any experience on this matter.

I see the usual mis-information continues to do the rounds.
2010/2011 CFCA had a manufacturing fault leading to high oil consumption, in certain cases which manifests itself quite quickly around 50-60,000 miles.
Nothing to do with thenEGR valve. All documented in a TPI reference paper by VW which shows which engines were affected and the repair process.

Post 2012 CFCA engines. Some engines have been damaged by the breakdown of the EGR cooler. What causes some EGR Coolers to breakdown and release aluminium oxide particles and other EGR coolers not to, nobody knows .

I have just passed 122,000 miles. Zero oil consumption.

VW TPI