Pothole rant

[WelshGas]

Well, if I can take the Tories first. They have been running the show since 2010 and potholes have gotten progressively worse. So they’ve had their chance to fix them and haven’t done it.
Because there are 12 million state pensioners and old people tend to vote Tory more than Labour the Tories say they will keep the Triple Lock.
So Labour say they‘ll do same because 12 million is a lot of votes.
Now the State Pension costs the taxpayer £120 billion a year and since the last 2 increases were 10.1% and 8.5% thats put another £20 billion on the bill.
There is no giant state pension pot. Current taxpayers pay for current pensioners. What goes to pensioners comes from taxpayers.
So what you have is Robin Hood in reverse.
What will probably happen is Labour will get in and after a year or two they will set up a commission to look at the Triple Lock and say that they will abide by its finding. Which will be that the country can’t afford the Triple Lock.
But the Triple Lock has to stay for the next parliament as promised so the pensioners can still go to the Toby Carvery and complain about er potholes.

You forgot, conveniently no doubt, to mention the non-increase in tax thresholds that have clawed back some of those increases and the similar increases in other benefits to the unemployed and longterm sick nor the increase in longterm sick suffering supposedly mental health problems who are paid as much, if not more, than OAPs.

 

[Mansfieldman750]

You forgot, conveniently no doubt, to mention the non-increase in tax thresholds that have clawed back some of those increases and the similar increases in other benefits to the unemployed and longterm sick nor the increase in longterm sick suffering supposedly mental health problems who are paid as much, if not more, than OAPs.

You are dead right about the freezing of personal allowances at £12,570.
The State Pension is £11,492, so if the personal allowance stays frozen pensioners will soon be paying tax on the State Pension ! Now that really is absurd.

 

[Velma's Dad]

The State Pension is £11,492, so if the personal allowance stays frozen pensioners will soon be paying tax on the State Pension ! Now that really is absurd.

Sort of is, but sort of isn't of course. Well above half of pensioners are not solely dependent on the state pension, and of course some receive quite high incomes overall.

Of course, you could means-test the state pension. But they fought in the war, paid their dues, worked hard all their lives (even those of us who didn't actually work down t'pit), yada yada.

 

[Mansfieldman750]

Sort of is, but sort of isn't of course. Well above half of pensioners are not solely dependent on the state pension, and of course some receive quite high incomes overall.

Of course, you could means-test the state pension. But they fought in the war, paid their dues, worked hard all their lives (even those of us who didn't actually work down t'pit), yada yada.

Yes but if someone is relying solely on the state pension you can’t then tax them on it and we are very close to that happening.
Anyway Baslow to Bakewell is more or less pothole free so I’m going out on my bike while it lasts.

 

[KevH]

Back to the original topic, we have spent the last two weeks touring The Netherlands and we kept count of anything remotely resembling a pothole.
Four.
Within seconds of driving off the ferry at Harwich we gave up counting.
Personally I don’t think the problem is the tax that we little people pay but the tax that those who are not on PAYE don’t pay. Then it is a political decision as to how to use that tax for the common good, or as is currently the case, not.
Controversial views? Maybe, but if the Dutch can do it, why can’t we, if we want it?

 

[Fish111111111.]

So taxpayers have to travel to work on potholed roads to pay taxes to pay for the generous pensions of net beneficiaries of the tax system ( like me )
Then the taxpayers have to work longer, maybe until 70 or beyond, because the country cannot really afford the generous pensions in the first place.
Truly the world has gone mad.
( I did say it was a rant )

Why so much hate to pensioners? You will be one one day, and your tune may change. If you look back pensioners were often overlooked and neglected many pensioners have died through not being able to heat there homes or feed themselves properly and yes there are always some who have extra funds more than others. They mostly will have paid in there contributions over the years so should get treated fairly. There are a lot more reasons that the limited funds in this country are being eatern up and wasted. If you happen to be a pensioner and are collecting what you believe is to much money then feel free to donate it to some deserving cause in this country. Oh and by the way changing to a labour goverment is not the soloution, only real political change to a goverment that is willing to act for the benefit of this country and its citizens will help. If you locate said government let me know i might just vote for them.

 

[Laura Hill]

Well, if I can take the Tories first. They have been running the show since 2010 and potholes have gotten progressively worse. So they’ve had their chance to fix them and haven’t done it.
Because there are 12 million state pensioners and old people tend to vote Tory more than Labour the Tories say they will keep the Triple Lock.
So Labour say they‘ll do same because 12 million is a lot of votes.
Now the State Pension costs the taxpayer £120 billion a year and since the last 2 increases were 10.1% and 8.5% thats put another £20 billion on the bill.
There is no giant state pension pot. Current taxpayers pay for current pensioners. What goes to pensioners comes from taxpayers.
So what you have is Robin Hood in reverse.
What will probably happen is Labour will get in and after a year or two they will set up a commission to look at the Triple Lock and say that they will abide by its finding. Which will be that the country can’t afford the Triple Lock.
But the Triple Lock has to stay for the next parliament as promised so the pensioners can still go to the Toby Carvery and complain about er potholes.

I asked if you had a source for your statement that there is no money to fix potholes 'because of the triple lock'.

You didn't answer the question.

I'm intrigued as to the mindset that determines the state of British roads is directly related to pensions. You might just as well blame the costs incurred in educating children, paying for the defence of the country, etc. as being the cause for no funds being available to repair infrastructure.

 

[This_one_goes_to_eleven]

We came down through the Netherlands, Germany, part of France, now in Spain.
We haven’t seen a pothole yet, even on the backroads.
We are a G7 country with third world roads. It’s a national disgrace. My wife has an Up Gti, great little car but no good in pothole Britain. That goes for anything with stiff suspension and low profile tyres really.
Nottinghamshire is probably the worst. Nottingham City Council is bankrupt and the County Council is not much better. Where’s the money coming from to fix the roads ? It has to be central government.
Never mind the tax cuts, fix the roads first. Make every motorist in the country a little happier.
Rant over.

I’m down in NG17. It’s a shambles. Wife lost a tyre yesterday.

Like you I do a lot of travelling up and down and nowhere is a bad as around here buddy.

 

[sidepod]

I think a big part of it is just the system. It allows shoddy contractors to do a shoddy job that they couldn’t give a toss about knowing they’ll be paid again next month to throw another shovel of tarmac in the same hole.

A little more care in ensuring accountability and guarantee from these sub contractors plus council ops who engage them held to task, then we might start to scratch the surface.

 

[BigPritch]

We'll have to wait for their manifestos I suppose.

Or total BS as they are commonly known as....they only want your vote, and once they have it......

 

[Mansfieldman750]

I’m down in NG17. It’s a shambles. Wife lost a tyre yesterday.

Like you I do a lot of travelling up and down and nowhere is a bad as around here buddy.

I know, I know but hey a miracle has happened. You know that stretch as you come past West Notts College heading for the lights at the bypass. It’s all fixed !

 

[Mansfieldman750]

I asked if you had a source for your statement that there is no money to fix potholes 'because of the triple lock'.

You didn't answer the question.

I'm intrigued as to the mindset that determines the state of British roads is directly related to pensions. You might just as well blame the costs incurred in educating children, paying for the defence of the country, etc. as being the cause for no funds being available to repair infrastructure.

Well, I thought there might be a connection between the potholes not getting fixed and the state pension going up by the greater of inflation or the average wage increase.
The potholes haven’t been getting fixed, that’s beyond dispute. What do you think is the reason ?

 

[Mansfieldman750]

Why so much hate to pensioners? You will be one one day, and your tune may change. If you look back pensioners were often overlooked and neglected many pensioners have died through not being able to heat there homes or feed themselves properly and yes there are always some who have extra funds more than others. They mostly will have paid in there contributions over the years so should get treated fairly. There are a lot more reasons that the limited funds in this country are being eatern up and wasted. If you happen to be a pensioner and are collecting what you believe is to much money then feel free to donate it to some deserving cause in this country. Oh and by the way changing to a labour goverment is not the soloution, only real political change to a goverment that is willing to act for the benefit of this country and its citizens will help. If you locate said government let me know i might just vote for them.

Hang on hang on, I am a pensioner, I am 71, I was one of the last who got it at 65.
I kept on working at Wilko distribution centre until I was 69 though, I was saving up for a Campervan.
You may think I am being disingenuous when I say this but I would gladly accept the State Pension being frozen at it’s current level for a couple of years, provided the saving went to fixing the roads.
Potholes are spoiling my retirement. I only have 2 hobbies, motorbikes and hillwalking both of which involve use of roads.
Like KevH above, all I want is roads as good as our neighbours

 

[Lequimper]

Gloucestershire apparently invested huge sums in a machine that can fix 100 potholes a day.

It’s clearly fixing them somewhere else, because my teeth are fast being rattled out by our roads.

We are a G7 nation in name only. A country in fast decline.

I live in Gloucestershire and I don’t think this machine has paid a visit to any of the roads that I know! It’s as bad here as anywhere else in the UK and definitely worse that on the continent.

 

[Kev56]

What would help a lot, is when they actually get around to fixing said pot hole is if they did a 'proper' job in the first place. As new holes appear the said repaired / bodged ones need fixing as-well.
Vicious circle.

 

[Scapa]

Just got back from Outer Hebrides and albeit mostly single track roads they were immaculate and don’t recall a single pothole. A joy to drive on Back on mainland and boy oh boy crash bang wallop

 

[KevH]

Imagine ignoring the state of your house and garden for 14 years, blowing the savings on whatever you fancy, and then blaming your neighbours when they point out how much your house and garden have deteriorated.
That, in a nutshell, is where we are.
Our roads were not perfect in 2010 but with proper maintenance they would still be fit for purpose.
It isn’t the fault of the pensioners, the sick, the migrants, etc., the blame lies squarely at the door of those who chose the policy of neglect.
Just saying.

 

[Velma's Dad]

Just got back from Outer Hebrides and albeit mostly single track roads they were immaculate and don’t recall a single pothole. A joy to drive on Back on mainland and boy oh boy crash bang wallop

Not really a meaningful comparison. Road damage is basically a function of traffic density and in particular the numbers of heavy trucks using it.

Freeze-thaw effect on cracks caused by traffic then have a big effect, but there again the Western Isles have a fairly mild climate with infrequent frosts - only about a third of the number of frost days per year compared to much of the Scottish mainland.

 

[Mansfieldman750]

I know I am getting boring but I am having one last go at explaining what the connection is between the triple lock and potholes.
The triple lock was introduced in 2010 by the Coalition government. Pensions have got progressively better since then.
The state of our roads has become progressively worse. Money to fix the roads does not seem to be available.
I say there is a connection there.
Can anyone tell me why, when the national debt is mounting, public services are deteriorating and our roads are the worst in Europe, it is a good idea to take money from taxpayers ( mostly in work ) and give more to pensioners ( mostly not in work ) ?

 

[This_one_goes_to_eleven]

I know I am getting boring but I am having one last go at explaining what the connection is between the triple lock and potholes.
The triple lock was introduced in 2010 by the Coalition government. Pensions have got progressively better since then.
The state of our roads has become progressively worse. Money to fix the roads does not seem to be available.
I say there is a connection there.
Can anyone tell me why, when the national debt is mounting, public services are deteriorating and our roads are the worst in Europe, it is a good idea to take money from taxpayers ( mostly in work ) and give more to pensioners ( mostly not in work ) ?

Correlation doesn’t equal causation.

That said I had a big old bang on the A38 near the Snipe today and then had a big laugh at Ben Bradley running on a “let’s fix our roads “ platform.

 

[KevH]

I know I am getting boring but I am having one last go at explaining what the connection is between the triple lock and potholes.
The triple lock was introduced in 2010 by the Coalition government. Pensions have got progressively better since then.
The state of our roads has become progressively worse. Money to fix the roads does not seem to be available.
I say there is a connection there.
Can anyone tell me why, when the national debt is mounting, public services are deteriorating and our roads are the worst in Europe, it is a good idea to take money from taxpayers ( mostly in work ) and give more to pensioners ( mostly not in work ) ?

Your argument is akin to removing zebra crossings based on their higher than average incidence in pedestrian injuries. Correlation does not equate to cause, as has been said above. It’s basically a flawed argument.

 

[Mansfieldman750]

Yup, you’ve got me there lads, I’m still learning even at my age. Correlation and Causation, I need to remember that.
Can I try an unsustainability argument?
Say the pension is £200 and the average wage is £500. They’re not but it lets me use rule of 72.
If the wage increases at 2% ( target rate of inflation ) after 72 years it’s £2000
Pension increases at 3% because of triple lock so after 72 years is £1600
So you’ve gone from the pension being 40% of wage to 80%
Which in my book is unsustainable. ?

 

[Mansfieldman750]

Correlation doesn’t equal causation.

That said I had a big old bang on the A38 near the Snipe today and then had a big laugh at Ben Bradley running on a “let’s fix our roads “ platform.

Ah that explains Nottingham Road getting fixed then. I better go down tomorrow and vote for the other guy, whoever he is.

 

[Kev56]

I know I am getting boring but I am having one last go at explaining what the connection is between the triple lock and potholes.
The triple lock was introduced in 2010 by the Coalition government. Pensions have got progressively better since then.
The state of our roads has become progressively worse. Money to fix the roads does not seem to be available.
I say there is a connection there.
Can anyone tell me why, when the national debt is mounting, public services are deteriorating and our roads are the worst in Europe, it is a good idea to take money from taxpayers ( mostly in work ) and give more to pensioners ( mostly not in work ) ?

Agree with the first half of line one.

 

[Mansfieldman750]

I forgot something important. The State Pension goes up from 66 to 67 between 2026 and 2028.
Life expectancy at 66 is 85 for a male and 87 for a female.
Average 20 years, nice round number.
That will knock 5% off the pension bill straightaway.
Thats the way to do it. Put the pension age up by a year every parliament and keep the triple lock.
Plenty of money for potholes then.