Problem With Folding Mirrors and Electric Windows

[Martyn]

Hello, I've searched and can't find anything on the issue I'm experiencing, apologies if it's a well-known problem but it's something I'm struggling to resolve:
I moved house recently and my T5.1 California has been standing for a month or so, unused. I fired her up today after a period of very heavy rain and as usual, flipped the switch for the folding mirrors to drain off all the water that tends to accumulate in them. They didn't work, not a squeak out of either of them. The mirrors can be tilted/adjusted ok and I can hear the heating relay clicking in, it's just the folding action that is dead. On top of that, I pressed the rocker switch for the driver's window and it went about halfway down before stopping dead, neither window will now work.
So, whatever has happened it's affecting both the folding mirrors and the electric windows. I've done a bit or research and as far as I can tell the fuses are OK, though there is apparently a 30a fuse hidden somewhere behind the dash that might be the culprit. I've also disconnected/reconnected the battery, to no effect.
Any help at all would be hugely appreciated. We were planning our first trip away in months in her from this Friday, right now we can't go far with one window halfway down .......
Thanks in advance!

 

[MeltedGoldfish]

You may have tried this already, but press (or pull) the window switch and hold for at least 5 seconds - that should ‘reset’ the window logic if it’s frozen.

As for the mirrors, my passenger side one sometimes does not deploy if it’s been left folded for an extended period. After prolonged idleness during lockdown I did have to gently ‘manhandle’ it down, but now a couple of recycles of the switch fixes it, if it happens.

If neither of this work then it sounds like you do have an electrical snag somewhere, but afraid this is where I run out of talent to help!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Martyn]

Thanks for that, hugely appreciate the response. Yes, I have tried resetting the logic on the switch and I am acquainted with the "one sticky mirror thing", happens to me too. They seem completely dead unfortunately.

 

[Martyn]

Just an update on this: Following some research, I located the 30a thermal fuse (F2) behind the BCM that is meant to control door functions, there was a suggestion that simply pulling it might allow me to at least close the window. Sadly, this hasn't worked and I am on the point of ordering a new fuse, although of course I don't know for sure if this is the problem.
I would like to take the top cap off the door panel and dry it out, but it's so stiff I don't think I stand a chance without breaking it. Can anyone tell me how to remove the switch cluster? That is also very tight.

 

[flying banana]

The switch cluster should prize out with a trim tool. Does your passenger side window work. Does it work from the driver side switch? You could swap the wires and ir switches over to prove the switch is good or bad. You may have got water in it. As for the mirrors it may be the same problem with water ingress in the switches. Rain often goes on them when the window and door is opened in heavy rain.

 

[Martyn]

No, passenger side window also dead, sadly.
I do have a set of trim tools but it was proving very resistant to removal! Given that the passenger side is also dead, I am thinking that it must be that 30a fuse behind the BCM, you can just get it out without removing the BCM. I

 

[vbk1975]

Just an update on this: Following some research, I located the 30a thermal fuse (F2) behind the BCM that is meant to control door functions, there was a suggestion that simply pulling it might allow me to at least close the window. Sadly, this hasn't worked and I am on the point of ordering a new fuse, although of course I don't know for sure if this is the problem.
I would like to take the top cap off the door panel and dry it out, but it's so stiff I don't think I stand a chance without breaking it. Can anyone tell me how to remove the switch cluster? That is also very tight.

If you own a multimeter or test lamp, you could check if the thermal fuse is open circuit or not, take it out to test it and leave it for say 10 mins to ensure it is cold.

If it is open circuit, i.e very high resistance with multi meter then it is probably faulty.

If it is faulty the thermal fuse has legs like a normal ATO blade fuse (i.e standard fuse) - then to test the theory I would put a standard 10A fuse (red) in place of the thermal fuse and see if the mirrors can be unfolded. Operating the windows will probably pop a 10A fuse. I have suggested a 10A fuse because it will be enough to test the circuit, but if there is a fault it will pop well below the thermal fuse limit of 30A

A

 

[flying banana]

This is a t6 fuse card. The mirrors are 10a ones. As said. The windows are done with a thermal fuse. Ie it blows if it gets hot rather than through high current

 

[vbk1975]

This is a t6 fuse card. The mirrors are 10a ones. As said. The windows are done with a thermal fuse. Ie it blows if it gets hot rather than through high current

View attachment 113142

I think SC17 is purely the heated mirror fuse and the Thermal fuse is the power to the Door Modules/Motors which control the mirror fold and movement

 

[flying banana]

sc30 10A also says mirrors,does your headlight range and oil temp work ?

 

[Martyn]

If you own a multimeter or test lamp, you could check if the thermal fuse is open circuit or not, take it out to test it and leave it for say 10 mins to ensure it is cold.

If it is open circuit, i.e very high resistance with multi meter then it is probably faulty.

If it is faulty the thermal fuse has legs like a normal ATO blade fuse (i.e standard fuse) - then to test the theory I would put a standard 10A fuse (red) in place of the thermal fuse and see if the mirrors can be unfolded. Operating the windows will probably pop a 10A fuse. I have suggested a 10A fuse because it will be enough to test the circuit, but if there is a fault it will pop well below the thermal fuse limit of 30A

A

I don't have a proper multimeter, but that was a good idea re. the fuse fitting and I popped a 10a fuse in there, the first one (I think) popped, but I didn't check to see if it was a good one in the first place. The second one didn't but nothing happens still. I also tried it with a 15a fuse, but nothing.
Are there any other fuses I should be trying? Thanks for the advice by the way, I do appreciate it.

 

[Martyn]

sc30 10A also says mirrors,does your headlight range and oil temp work ?

I must admit I haven't checked yet, but my van is actually a T5.1 - would the same apply?

 

[flying banana]

I must admit I haven't checked yet, but my van is actually a T5.1 - would the same apply?

possibly,worth a try

 

[Martyn]

Mmm, there seems to be no parallel between the T5.1 and T6 fusebox

 

[vbk1975]

Mmm, there seems to be no parallel between the T5.1 and T6 fusebox

Technical Guide - VW California Beach T5 Fuse Layout

VW California Beach T5 Fuse Layout / Flow diagrams Jan 2015

vwcaliforniaclub.com

Looks like from this that Mirror adjust is SC28, page 18 of this doc

 

[vbk1975]

I don't have a proper multimeter, but that was a good idea re. the fuse fitting and I popped a 10a fuse in there, the first one (I think) popped, but I didn't check to see if it was a good one in the first place. The second one didn't but nothing happens still. I also tried it with a 15a fuse, but nothing.
Are there any other fuses I should be trying? Thanks for the advice by the way, I do appreciate it.

Please remove the fuse once you have done testing, if it did pop a 10a fuse, i would suggest there is an underlying issue and leaving the fuse isn't a great idea in that case - I am sorry I don't have T5.1 circuits, if i did I would try and walk you through the issue (even without a multi meter)

 

[Martyn]

Please remove the fuse once you have done testing, if it did pop a 10a fuse, i would suggest there is an underlying issue and leaving the fuse isn't a great idea in that case - I am sorry I don't have T5.1 circuits, if i did I would try and walk you through the issue (even without a multi meter)

Thanks for that, sound advice. OK, here's an update: I think I might have put a dodgy fuse in there to start with, so am discounting that. I popped the thermal fuse back in and tested again (nada), but then realised I hadn't actually checked the left hand window from the left hand switch (if that makes sense), I'd been basing my assumptions on the left hand window not working from the control cluster on the driver's side. So, surprise - the window DOES work, so I guess this discounts the 30a thermal fuse as a potential issue. So, from that drivers side switch cluster:
1. The central locking switch works ok
2. Mirror adjustment works ok
3. Heated mirror works ok
4. Folding mirrors not ok
5. Left/Right window switches not ok
So that points to the switches, right?

 

[Martyn]

I've managed to remove the switch cluster from the driver's door (very tight, nearly broke the trim removal tool) but now that I've actually got them out I am a bit puzzled by how to test them and ascertain if they are in any way faulty.
Thinking about it, it's a bit odd that both the folding mirrors and door controls fail at the same time, so I have to wonder if there is something I'm missing here - a fuse perhaps? The diagram detailing the location of the 30a thermal fuse points to a "door control module" and I have to admit I don't know what this means, can anyone enlighten me? Is there such an item in each door?
In any event, we've been forced to cancel our planned break in the van, so I have time to try and fix it. Any thoughts/pointers will be very welcome at this point, it seems a bit daft to go and buy new switches unless I know they're the problem. Thanks in advance guys.

 

[vbk1975]

I've managed to remove the switch cluster from the driver's door (very tight, nearly broke the trim removal tool) but now that I've actually got them out I am a bit puzzled by how to test them and ascertain if they are in any way faulty.
Thinking about it, it's a bit odd that both the folding mirrors and door controls fail at the same time, so I have to wonder if there is something I'm missing here - a fuse perhaps? The diagram detailing the location of the 30a thermal fuse points to a "door control module" and I have to admit I don't know what this means, can anyone enlighten me? Is there such an item in each door?
In any event, we've been forced to cancel our planned break in the van, so I have time to try and fix it. Any thoughts/pointers will be very welcome at this point, it seems a bit daft to go and buy new switches unless I know they're the problem. Thanks in advance guys.

Martyn I have messaged you

 

[Martyn]

Received - thank you.

 

[Martyn]

Well, thanks to vbk1975 I have successfully got the door panel off without breaking anything, wound the window back up manually and have removed the wiper motor.
What I'm puzzled about now is that unlike all the examples I have read about, my particular motor does NOT appear to have the ECU attached. Can anyone shed any light as to its location?
Best wishes
Martyn

 

[Martyn]

Just to close this out, I can report that the problem is sorted. Turns out that in later model T5s (2010 onwards I think) the ECU actually still is contained inside the motor housing, it's just a smaller footprint. The ECU was quite knackered, the motor bearing in the end of the casing felt very tight and I'm guessing that the lack of use led it to seize and put a lot of strain on the circuitry, so it just blew something. A new motor fixed it, although along the way I also replaced the 30a thermal fuse (F2) and put a new window switch in the driver's door switch cluster.

I had to resort to the expertise of Mark at Volksvans, this guy really knows his way around the California's electrics and correctly diagnosed the problem in no time and reinstalled it properly using VCDS, he also used his contacts to get me a new motor/ECU module in a hurry via VW Commercial. Interestingly, I tried to get one myself from VW Lancaster (Morecombe) and was told that they were unobtainable and there were none in Europe!

 

[Martyn]

p.s. I successfully got the door panel back on without breaking any clips