Purchase Process - Drive the Deal and Eurovans Crawley

[RockinNRollin]

Looks like every thread now is a bellows thread, no matter the subject. I get that it’s really annoying for the three people who post into every thread about it, but it does make what was a diverse and interesting forum more challenging to navigate and answer questions without always being drawn into a “but the bellows” conversation.

Yeah, but what about them bellows?

 

[Kayleigh]

You may be correct, but I'm not so sure about selling at a profit anymore. Half the 2023 Oceans I can see for sale are up for high £60k's which is less much than list, and even discounted prices. A few months ago all 2023 used Oceans were commanding at least £73k as I was considering buying nearly new myself. The fact that a used Cali will not benefit from the 5yr 0% finance offer combined with the fact lead times are shortest for a long time (mine has taken exactly 2 months from order to delivery at the dealer) will not help used prices. I'm sure if the dealer has to sell a returned vehicle they will end up at a loss after their expenses.

Well my returned van was up for £73K, but gradually reduced to £70K. It did sell at that price, or at least it’s not available anymore. I’m not sure if that represents a loss for the dealer but I paid about £67K.

 

[Barry Chuckle]

Well my returned van was up for £73K, but gradually reduced to £70K. It did sell at that price, or at least it’s not available anymore. I’m not sure if that represents a loss for the dealer but I paid about £77K.

To illustrate my point, this Ocean has delivery miles on an you'd get this for £65k max...

Auto Trader UK - New and Used Cars For Sale

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[Kayleigh]

To illustrate my point, this Ocean has delivery miles on an you'd get this for £65k max...

Auto Trader UK - New and Used Cars For Sale

Find your next car with Auto Trader UK, the official #1 site to buy and sell new and used cars. Over 400,000 cars online. Simple, easy, quick!

www.autotrader.co.uk

Sorry, I put the purchase price in wrong. Just corrected it in my post. It was £67K new with discounts. Just updated my post.

 

[ParachuteMan]

I doubt the bellows manufacturer will have factored in quite so many warranty replacements. By my calculation every vehicle produced since end of Sept 2022 will need one. And some have had up to 5 replacements. Thats REALLY gonna hurt the bottom line.

My research into UK California registrations 1 Mar - 1 Nov 23 vs complaints here + 100% to allow for non members etc does not equal “every vehicle produced since end Sept 2022“

 

[Corradobrit]

My research into UK California registrations 1 Mar - 1 Nov 23 vs complaints here + 100% to allow for non members etc does not equal “every vehicle produced since end Sept 2022“

They just don't know it yet.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

Thanks, we’re absolutely loving the van. Aside from the warranty and financial questions, even if the warranty replacement wasn’t an effective solution, I think we’d keep the van and either get a wrap and/or a third party bellows. We have Jerba nearby and their midge resistant bellows seem very good. Completely understand and respect the differing viewpoints of others, it’s a big Chunk of change and everyone wants a good experience, I guess.

I called Jerba, because I'm not confident VW will provide a fix, to ask if they could replace the bellows with their own product.

The answer was a No. They've replaced bellows on VWs but only with parts obtained from VW.

When I explained the widespread issue they said maybe adapting a product could be considered but I wouldn't expect a third party replacement from Jerba in the near future.

 

[ArunAlec]

But how many owners use their vehicles outside summer high days and holidays or because they park on the street or somewhere where they cannot put up the roof to dry it routinely and so use a Topper to keep the bellows dry.
It doesn’t matter how many cases there are, at the most there might be some reputational damage, but it will be short term and soon forgotten, and certainly not affect VWs bottom line.

Agree, the years that owners suffered with corroding roofs and bodged repairs didn’t seem to do any damage to VW’s reputation, so this current issue will have little impact.

 

[ArunAlec]

I called Jerba, because I'm not confident VW will provide a fix, to ask if they could replace the bellows with their own product.

The answer was a No. They've replaced bellows on VWs but only with parts obtained from VW.

When I explained the widespread issue they said maybe adapting a product could be considered but I wouldn't expect a third party replacement from Jerba in the near future.

I doubt that there would be any third party converters who would be able to offer a replacement for the dodgy VW bellows. If there was the cost would probably be prohibitive. Lashings of Fabsil is probably a better option.

 

[Barry Chuckle]

I doubt that there would be any third party converters who would be able to offer a replacement for the dodgy VW bellows. If there was the cost would probably be prohibitive. Lashings of Fabsil is probably a better option.

I'm about as technically minded as Frank Spencer, so I don't know much about Fabsil but I see it's a coating to waterproof. Do you think this could be the long term solution VW use and perhaps make re-coating each year or so part of the service schedule?

 

[ArunAlec]

I'm about as technically minded as Frank Spencer, so I don't know much about Fabsil but I see it's a coating to waterproof. Do you think this could be the long term solution VW use and perhaps make re-coating each year or so part of the service schedule?

I’m saying, rather than spending a fortune on replacing the VW bellows (which apart from leaking are a high quality material) with a possibly inferior non OEM product which might also leak, there’s nothing to be lost trying Fabsil .
Obviously this would negate the warranty and any chance of VW help but so would fitting a non VW bellows.
It would be a bit of a shot in the foot for VW to actually add Fabsil to their service schedule having said for the last decade not to use any treatments!
Mind you, they’ve recently made U turn on cam belts!

 

[Corradobrit]

perhaps make re-coating each year or so part of the service schedule?

highly unlikely

 

[Corradobrit]

Mind you, they’ve recently made U turn on cam belts!

That was only ever a money grab UK thing.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

I doubt that there would be any third party converters who would be able to offer a replacement for the dodgy VW bellows. If there was the cost would probably be prohibitive. Lashings of Fabsil is probably a better option.

I'm not convinced with the Fabsil solution because the material itself is highly water repellent. The issue is the seams / pin holes / saturation and wicking and I'm not sure Fabsil would help with that nor even be easily applied to seams enclosed by the two materials. bwdik.

 

[WelshGas]

I'm about as technically minded as Frank Spencer, so I don't know much about Fabsil but I see it's a coating to waterproof. Do you think this could be the long term solution VW use and perhaps make re-coating each year or so part of the service schedule?

No. They will release a waterproof version and the same type will be used on the next generation. This is just a temporary blip that is being sorted . This is a result of the difference between lab testing and real world testing. It will be sorted .

 

[WelshGas]

That was only ever a money grab UK thing.

The majority who moaned about changing cambelts at 4 yrs were the low milage campervan owners. Don't see many high milage owners complaining . I was quite happy having mine changed at 80,000 miles and 4 yrs.

 

[Corradobrit]

Don't see many high milage owners complaining .

Well of course not cause they would have needed the cam belt change regardless due to mileage. There was no engineering logic to enforcing the 4 year limit, with the belts are rated for considerably longer usage. VWUK diverged in their official requirement vs rest of Europe from the get go. They were able to get away with it until they couldn't. Nothing else has changed. Pure money grab.

 

[WelshGas]

Well of course not cause they would have needed the cam belt change regardless due to mileage. There was no engineering logic to enforcing the 4 year limit, with the belts are rated for considerably longer usage. VWUK diverged in their official requirement vs rest of Europe from the get go. They were able to get away with it until they couldn't. Nothing else has changed. Pure money grab.

As far as I am aware the recommendation is to exchange more frequently in extreme conditions but nothing in relation of a vehicle that is laid up for 6 months or so a year . Time will tell.

 

[Carabiner]

I called Jerba, because I'm not confident VW will provide a fix, to ask if they could replace the bellows with their own product.

The answer was a No. They've replaced bellows on VWs but only with parts obtained from VW.

When I explained the widespread issue they said maybe adapting a product could be considered but I wouldn't expect a third party replacement from Jerba in the near future.

Thanks for doing the legwork on that. Disappointing response from them, but I fit guess one can understand it. Pinning hopes on a VW fix and/or a bellows wrap then, ho-hum. I believe that Jerba are all in on the Crafter conversions now (as one might imagine), not much sense in developing a tweaked bellows version of models that are now in maintenance mode.

We asked vw eo to contact our local vw service folk to confirm the bellows ordered for us were 04S, they were 03S. The garage asked eo when will the 04S be available to them. No further discussion as yet, on that or, replacing ours.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

Thanks for doing the legwork on that. Disappointing response from them, but I fit guess one can understand it. Pinning hopes on a VW fix and/or a bellows wrap then, ho-hum. I believe that Jerba are all in on the Crafter conversions now (as one might imagine), not much sense in developing a tweaked bellows version of models that are now in maintenance mode.

We asked vw eo to contact our local vw service folk to confirm the bellows ordered for us were 04S, they were 03S. The garage asked eo when will the 04S be available to them. No further discussion as yet, on that or, replacing ours.

You seem pleased with your Cali. I would be tempted to wait a bit longer before a bellows replacement to see if the 04S becomes widely available over here.

Our ownership has been tainted with badly leaking bellows the first weekend away and then a failed pop top hydraulics on the second trip effectively rendering the campervan useless.

Our local dealer was quoting in excess of 10 weeks for warranty inspection and we wanted to preserve our Customer Rights to Reject, which we exercised with Eurovans as the vehicle has now been with them since 25 September.

They asked us if we would keep the van with a substantial "Goodwill" payment. We said we would listen to theirs and VW's offer which was a paltry, insulating amount for a vehicle which has clocked 2/3 of its mileage to Crawley and back been sat at the dealership since September. The first offer wasn't equivalent to half of our petrol and train fare costs and the new new improved one just about covered that but nothing regards having no California for 4 months.

Hey ho.

 

[66tim99]

You seem pleased with your Cali. I would be tempted to wait a bit longer before a bellows replacement to see if the 04S becomes widely available over here.

Our ownership has been tainted with badly leaking bellows the first weekend away and then a failed pop top hydraulics on the second trip effectively rendering the campervan useless.

Our local dealer was quoting in excess of 10 weeks for warranty inspection and we wanted to preserve our Customer Rights to Reject, which we exercised with Eurovans as the vehicle has now been with them since 25 September.

They asked us if we would keep the van with a substantial "Goodwill" payment. We said we would listen to theirs and VW's offer which was a paltry, insulating amount for a vehicle which has clocked 2/3 of its mileage to Crawley and back been sat at the dealership since September. The first offer wasn't equivalent to half of our petrol and train fare costs and the new new improved one just about covered that but nothing regards having no California for 4 months.

Hey ho.

VW really are a bunch of shysters

 

[Carabiner]

You seem pleased with your Cali. I would be tempted to wait a bit longer before a bellows replacement to see if the 04S becomes widely available over here.

Our ownership has been tainted with badly leaking bellows the first weekend away and then a failed pop top hydraulics on the second trip effectively rendering the campervan useless.

Our local dealer was quoting in excess of 10 weeks for warranty inspection and we wanted to preserve our Customer Rights to Reject, which we exercised with Eurovans as the vehicle has now been with them since 25 September.

They asked us if we would keep the van with a substantial "Goodwill" payment. We said we would listen to theirs and VW's offer which was a paltry, insulating amount for a vehicle which has clocked 2/3 of its mileage to Crawley and back been sat at the dealership since September. The first offer wasn't equivalent to half of our petrol and train fare costs and the new new improved one just about covered that but nothing regards having no California for 4 months.

Hey ho.

Hi, yes, we are pleased, and yes, in no rush to get the replacement until it can be confirmed as the new ones.

Saddened by your experience. I've previously found myself getting too close to these kind of problems, and end up in a no-win situation where the supplier could never reasonably (or unreasonably) bridge the gap between the shortfall in my experience and what they're prepared to offer. Feels like that's where they've put you, and I'm sorry for you for that. I might get there yet, but trying to focus on the positives. I think you posted a pic of your hydraulics failure, if that were me, I'd be freaking out!

 

[Kayleigh]

You seem pleased with your Cali. I would be tempted to wait a bit longer before a bellows replacement to see if the 04S becomes widely available over here.

Our ownership has been tainted with badly leaking bellows the first weekend away and then a failed pop top hydraulics on the second trip effectively rendering the campervan useless.

Our local dealer was quoting in excess of 10 weeks for warranty inspection and we wanted to preserve our Customer Rights to Reject, which we exercised with Eurovans as the vehicle has now been with them since 25 September.

They asked us if we would keep the van with a substantial "Goodwill" payment. We said we would listen to theirs and VW's offer which was a paltry, insulating amount for a vehicle which has clocked 2/3 of its mileage to Crawley and back been sat at the dealership since September. The first offer wasn't equivalent to half of our petrol and train fare costs and the new new improved one just about covered that but nothing regards having no California for 4 months.

Hey ho.

That’s really bad, I’m sorry to hear that. Seems like I dodged a bullet with them by rejecting within 30 days.