Reliable California?

[Max-Felix]

The 150's are rare and pricey though. You can chip the 2.5l 102's to happily be over 130 which should be more than enough.

 

[briwy]

As said many times before people generally only complain about problems on the forms, which is fair enough, but I don't think it gives an accurate picture of any vehicle. How often do we see people come on and say their vehicle is wonderful, not often. I know some people like Kernow Lad (and Jen to some extent) had a well documented list of problems but as with any manufacturer there will always be a bad un.
The Calis we've had (all 180s) haven't suffered any serious problems which have prevented us from using them at any time. The main problem consistently appears to be that the dealers aren't up to scratch on sorting out Cali problems when they do occur. My main concern at present is the seeming war on diesels that the authorities are now stirring up. Looks like more and more cities will be bringing in some form of charge for diesels. Bloody hipocritical IMO, we dont want your nasty diesels here but it's OK if you pay us.
Perhaps Martin or Kev could set up a satisfied/disasatified poll just to get this issue in perspective so that owners and prospective owners can see some more accurate info.

 

[sidepod]

Right you lot get in the queue, I saw em first

I'm actually coming around to the idea myself. One on The Bay of E at the mo but it's dodge apparantly.

 

[sidepod]

Also bear in mind the number of Cali owners on here represent a tiny proportion of the total out there.

 

[Max-Felix]

There is a very (relatively speaking in the weird VW/Westy world we live in) cheap 150 below but looks to have had paint - no decals or badges. Been waiting on the seller for more info....

http://ww3.autoscout24.de/classified/276845257?asrc=st|as##customerData

 

[sidepod]

Sweet. Shame about the ding infront of the passanger side rear wheel arch.

For my money, spending that much on a van that old it would need to be mint. Genuine paint/decals etc.
Jus tback from our Euro trip, spotted several minters on campsites, all German registered. They seem to look after them better over there?

Anyway, back to the summary of the T5 roof issues.

 

[Bluestone]

If it's a 204ps thing over the 150 ps (is it only the higher output engine that has EGR issues?) then go for the 150 and have it re-mapped. You end up with exactly the same software that VW install.

From what I understand the 204 PS (as with the 180) is bi-turbo, so although you will indeed benefit from re-mapping, it certainly won't be the same software that VW install.

On the whole other subject of reliability, I've owned many VW's and done in total probably over 300,000 iles in VW's alone - I've never had a problem with any of them, but someone I race with who owns a company, bought a fleet of VW Transporters and had nothing but problems with them, I also hear this from many, many users, both individual and fleet users.

Of course I can't comment as I've never had a single issue. All I will say that it's not the problem - it's the way the problem is resolved that is important - maybe that's where people feel so let down with the vehicle in general - again I've had nothing but excellent service from VW (I'm talking cars here by the way - above as well).

I am slightly disappointed with some of the niggles with the Cali and really feel there's no need for them at all on such an expensive vehicle - but then I can't talk as I have a Land Rover, love it to bits and will never get rid of it and it's terrible build quality!!!

I do feel the Merc will give the Cali a run for it's money and I'm sure it will be before 2017 (look at the T6 which had people saying it won't be until late 2016 and it looks like some owners will take delivery this year.

Don't we all love the concept of a VW bus - or camper and therefore really want a VW Camper?- I know I do

Again from my understanding (please correct me if I'm wrong) Mercedes bought out Westfalia so no chance of a re-visit of the Westi VW as long as Mercedes have the Marco Polo in the wings - but never say never hey

 

[Bluestone]

One last thing with the EGR - it's not necessary to have one on a diesel - there are far better methods of reducing NOX - however, it's the cheapest way of doing it, but I would just delete it after the warranty anyway as they are only really effective up to a certain millage - no more than 15K miles. SCR is better with the ad-blue which trucks mainly use - probably far too expensive for the T range or even Crafter

 

[Max-Felix]

Don't we all love the concept of a VW bus - or camper and therefore really want a VW Camper?- I know I do

Totally - despite anger with VW, a Transit (and I love Transits too) or Peugeot Campervan just would not be the same.

Again from my understanding (please correct me if I'm wrong) Mercedes bought out Westfalia so no chance of a re-visit of the Westi VW as long as Mercedes have the Marco Polo in the wings - but never say never hey

This changed some time back, Mercedes sold Westy on hence the re-appearance of the Westy Joker high top and pop-top on the T5 (beautiful conversions) but not the conventional side layout as that would not perhaps compete against the VW Cali. Maybe (there were rumours) Westy would get the VW conversion contract again (we can hope).

 

[GrannyJen]

Jen, I understand your love for the Cali. My (then future) wife and I did a huge tour in a T3 and lived in one non-stop for months, I then had a T3 Westy and then self converted a T4. I'm not anti-VW, it's still hard to imagine having any other base vehicle. But it does not take more than a couple of weeks of research to uncover that the T5 is built light' mechanically, the camper side is fragile and they do have numerous (never seemingly updated/resolved) mechanical issues. You cannot just brush off the roof problems (again you have to trawl through the painfully long 'roof corrosion' topic to gauge the true size of the issue) - how an prospective owner would be happy to have a huge chance of going through the whole process on a £50k vehicle beggars belief? Sorry, but it must be unacceptable for VW to continue to produce the roof the same with the same issues in store for owners.

The issue of the roof as I can ascertain is a combination of a metallurgical issue of the aluminium alloy used, poor paint preparation/application (made more difficult by water based EU paints) and the rubber seals used containing a steel stiffener and the general design of sealing which harbours water collection all leading to galvanic corrosion and paint degradation.

That a company with VW's wealth cannot seem to solve this in all the years the issue came to light is extraordinary and either due to incompetence, penny pinching, laziness or a total disregard for their customers. This is where Merceded were a decade or so ago until it came back to bite them, hopefully they will start to build (the T7?) like VW's of old and give back the converting side to Westfalia.

I am not anti criticism of VW or the California. I think my own contribution to that feeding frenzy was quite impressive.

What does irritate me is the constant regurgitating in almost every post of the list of faults that SOME VW owners might have, as if every owner of a California is a complete and utter idiot buying blindly a bagful of rattling spanners that through total incompetence and arrogance the manufacturer foists upon a gullible buyer.

When I bought my current vehicle I know about EGR valves, I know about roof rot, I knew about steering knock, I knew about erratic electric doors, I knew about all those problems, just as I knew all about the problems of the Fiat Ducato, the Peugeot Boxer, etc. As for flimsy habitation I know all about flexilights failing, hinges breaking etc... just as I knew about other converters problems. My evaluation was that knowing all the cons they were far outweighed by the pro's, it was a better vehicle for me than all the others that I had evaluated, I was buying new with 3 years warranty and after all, VW cannot be SO bad, just look at the residuals.

So this naive, stupid gullible owner that you keep alluding to went and bought her vehicle and has had the best time of her life in it, a complete resounding, brilliant success of a purchase.

Yes it has faults, so do all the rest, instead of just listing a litany of faults lets look also at some of the positives.

 

[Bluestone]

When I bought my current vehicle I know about EGR valves, I know about roof rot, I knew about steering knock, I knew about erratic electric doors

Surely this shouldn't be acceptable though? Don't we expect better from a VW? German engineering and all that? From what I understand it is a very expensive vehicle for what it is and why should we settle for any known faults? Especially when they've been going on for a while (EGR, Roof etc.)

As I said, it's not the faults. its the solution, but sadly VW don't seem to be doing anything about these things (otherwise the debates like this would be long dead)

"Maybe and don't call me Shirley" Sorry couldn't resist

 

[GrannyJen]

Westfalia do a VW conversion, the City, and my understanding is that Westfalia are now independent of VW.

I am interested in the MP, however I feel that on a Mercedes Benz forum somewhere in the future there will be the same voice of dissent over the way it is sold. I contacted three dealers just to ask if I could look at a V Class, not the MP, just the base vehicle. I might just as well have been writing and speaking a long lost dialect of Swahili. The fourth, the only one to show any interest, then went away to do some research and it was he that came back and said according to the UK Head office the MP will probably not be on these shores before 2017 due to "adaptation problems".... Hey ho! Problems before it's even rolled a wheel!

Whilst doing a comparison, I also contacted three converters, told them the spec of the base vehicle, and stood back in eager anticipation.

One came back. Business must be good in the world of converters. The one that came back quoted me 55k... then..

oh if you want a diesel heater .... a leisure battery .... an upstairs bed .... a......etc....

California prices for in comparison a California shell.

 

[Neilgbj]

Keep things simple.....a current 140 or the new 150

You obviously had a poorly built vehicle....I am sure there are many 'silent' Cali owners who are just getting on and enjoying life

 

[GrannyJen]

Surely this shouldn't be acceptable though? Don't we expect better from a VW? German engineering and all that? From what I understand it is a very expensive vehicle for what it is and why should we settle for any known faults? Especially when they've been going on for a while (EGR, Roof etc.)

As I said, it's not the faults. its the solution, but sadly VW don't seem to be doing anything about these things (otherwise the debates like this would be long dead)

"Maybe and don't call me Shirley" Sorry couldn't resist

I do not know of any manufacturer who produces a perfect, fault free complex vehicle so I cannot seriously offer an opinion on how dilatory VW have been in fixing known problems compared to others.

However I have not had EGR valve problems, I have not had roof rot problems, I have not had steering knock so as far as I am concerned in my own particular example they have fixed all those issues. Alternatively I have only heard of possibly two people having the same charging problems as I have had so perhaps mine was a completely random issue, although there is a suggestion it is a design problem in which case VW have addressed it.

To suggest that we are all buying vehicles with a litany of known faults unaddressed by the manufacturer is to me an incorrect premise as so many people on these forums are saying, as I do, "I've not had that".

 

[jts46]

Like you granny Jen, I have no problems with EGR, DPF, etc, etc. my vehicle has behaved perfectly mechanically, its just the b***** front roof panel.
Having said that off to our house in France this weekend 1000 miles, sods law and al that !!!!!!!

John

 

[Bluestone]

I do not know of any manufacturer who produces a perfect, fault free complex vehicle so I cannot seriously offer an opinion on how dilatory VW have been in fixing known problems compared to others.

I do, but don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that some owners don't experience problems and others none - in my experience of VW car ownership I never had any problems and others have had so many they would never buy a VW again. I think it is a case of percentages.

But as I keep saying it's not the problem, it's the way it's resolved and perhaps people are unhappy as the dealers (or VW themselves) don't resolve problems in the way a manufacturer should?

All I know is that when I'm a race meets, everyone loves the Cali, however, when told the price, they all say "how much?" there are plenty of convertors out there that do have all the goodies the VW has and more - RS for instance. Yes they are more expensive to buy - but you can pick one up second hand for the price of a Cali and are far better vehicles.

Still love the Cali though and I don't take any notice of them

 

[GrannyJen]

Like you granny Jen, I have no problems with EGR, DPF, etc, etc. my vehicle has behaved perfectly mechanically, its just the b***** front roof panel.
Having said that off to our house in France this weekend 1000 miles, sods law and al that !!!!!!!

John

I'm off to the Loire at the end of this month, assuming Mum has recovered enough to go home.

A couple of thousand miles round trip touring and I am certainly not going to sit there thinking "I hope my EGR makes it and the DPF remains soot-free and the roof doesn't rot before I get there".

I will just get in a vehicle that has behaved totally faultlessly and puts it's four feet on the tarmac with a total reassuring feel of mechanical solidity. I will turn up the music, set the cruise control and roll down vaguely towards Saumur having made no plans as to where to stop, what to eat etc, I will just waft down with the minimum of fuss knowing that with the vehicle I have I can sort all that out when I get there.

Total freedom in, imho, the best camper on the market.

 

[Bluestone]

I'm off to the Loire at the end of this month, assuming Mum has recovered enough to go home.

A couple of thousand miles round trip touring and I am certainly not going to sit there thinking "I hope my EGR makes it and the DPF remains soot-free and the roof doesn't rot before I get there".

I will just get in a vehicle that has behaved totally faultlessly and puts it's four feet on the tarmac with a total reassuring feel of mechanical solidity. I will turn up the music, set the cruise control and roll down vaguely towards Saumur having made no plans as to where to stop, what to eat etc, I will just waft down with the minimum of fuss knowing that with the vehicle I have I can sort all that out when I get there.

Total freedom in, imho, the best camper on the market.

Don't worry GrannyJen - I totally agree Yes I could get a nice RS Camper, but there's just something about the Cali Hell I don't need a race garage - I have a race team to do all that stuff for me

Well to put things straight, it's not my race team, and they do other cars as well - but I like to think they're my race team

 

[GrannyJen]

I do, but don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that some owners don't experience problems and others none - in my experience of VW car ownership I never had any problems and others have had so many they would never buy a VW again. I think it is a case of percentages.

But as I keep saying it's not the problem, it's the way it's resolved and perhaps people are unhappy as the dealers (or VW themselves) don't resolve problems in the way a manufacturer should?

All I know is that when I'm a race meets, everyone loves the Cali, however, when told the price, they all say "how much?" there are plenty of convertors out there that do have all the goodies the VW has and more - RS for instance. Yes they are more expensive to buy - but you can pick one up second hand for the price of a Cali and are far better vehicles.

Still love the Cali though and I don't take any notice of them

Yes, but ... the RS are motorhomes, unless you buy the compact Eros, in which case you are buying a VW with dodgy EGR, Dodgy DPF and all the other dodgy mechanicals that you slate the VW for

 

[Max-Felix]

Understood Jen, been there, done it! Just a real, real shame VW don't pull their finger out a bit more and sort all the issues.

Have you (and Chris and Liz) pulled back the roof seal all round though to really have a close look for bubbling? If you really have zero rot it will be very unusual judging by that topic.

 

[GrannyJen]

Understood Jen, been there, done it! Just a real, real shame VW don't pull their finger out a bit more and sort all the issues.

Have you (and Chris and Liz) pulled back the roof seal all round though to really have a close look for bubbling? If you really have zero rot it will be very unusual judging by that topic.

How many UK California's sold and how many with reported roof problems?

Yes, my vehicle is inspected for corrosion issues everytime it goes to the dealers.

 

[markh]

If you really are looking for alternatives then the Wellhouse Terrier (based on Ford Transit Custom) is pretty good. My parents bought one earlier this year and are really happy with it. I personally don't think it's as 'polished' as the Cali but it does have some better features and is definitely much more solid.

There is a new version coming out for the NEC show that appears to have more Cali/Marco Polo-like furniture so this may make it look a bit less aftermarket. There are some artists impressions of the new look interior on the page for the much pimped version here:

http://wellhouseleisure.com/product/ford-terrier-m-sport-camper

Mark

 

[Bluestone]

Yes, but ... the RS are motorhomes, unless you buy the compact Eros, in which case you are buying a VW with dodgy EGR, Dodgy DPF and all the other dodgy mechanicals that you slate the VW for

Emmm hold on, when did I slate the VW for that?????!!!! I was just saying that if they are known problems then VW should address them - in fact I keep saying how I've never had a problem with VW. Come on Jen lets not jump on the bandwagon of being so over protective about the VW you shoot anyone who makes a comment about known issues - please

 

[GrannyJen]

Emmm hold on, when did I slate the VW for that?????!!!! I was just saying that if they are known problems then VW should address them - in fact I keep saying how I've never had a problem with VW. Come on Jen lets not jump on the bandwagon of being so over protective about the VW you shoot anyone who makes a comment about known issues - please

Overprotective? Please! Do read my own thread on manufacturer and dealer issues and my comments in the dealer network thread. I am as good as lambasting VW at anyone else. Please do not suggest that your own view is so infallible that anyone taking issue with that view must be suffering with some form of excessive sycophancy.

No, it's just that at present there is a negative tendency to continue to regurgitate every single fault known over and over again with the inference that anyone buying a California will suffer the same problems that everyone has ever suffered.

Very few cases of roof rot since 2013 suggest that something has been done, very few cases EGR failure suggest the same, many many cases of people having fail-free mechanical experiences suggest the same.

I have found dealing with VW to be an experience of dealing with almost insufferable arrogance and contempt from the manufacturer but that does not mean that I will not put forward a counter-argument to give balance to negativity.

 

[Bluestone]

Overprotective? Please! Do read my own thread on manufacturer and dealer issues and my comments in the dealer network thread. I am as good as lambasting VW at anyone else. Please do not suggest that your own view is so infallible that anyone taking issue with that view must be suffering with some form of excessive sycophancy.

No, it's just that at present there is a negative tendency to continue to regurgitate every single fault known over and over again with the inference that anyone buying a California will suffer the same problems that everyone has ever suffered.

Very few cases of roof rot since 2013 suggest that something has been done, very few cases EGR failure suggest the same, many many cases of people having fail-free mechanical experiences suggest the same.

I have found dealing with VW to be an experience of dealing with almost insufferable arrogance and contempt from the manufacturer but that does not mean that I will not put forward a counter-argument to give balance to negativity.

OK so I'm confused. Why did you state that I was slating the Cali for this? Sorry but I can't recall actually saying that I had any of the problems and that I was slating the Cali for these issues?

After all I AM putting a counter argument as well - I love the Cali but wish to be balanced. Therefore please don't miss quote me, maybe apologise, rather than attacking me again with diversion tactics Suggesting I'm jumping on the band wagon of slating the VW - which I never have

To be fair, I kept saying that VW's have issues and that perhaps the problem is with the way the issues are handled not that VW Cali has issues. Yep pretty sure that is what I was saying