Reliable California?

[KernowLad]

Hi All, just thought I'd drop back in.
The camper itch is coming back having done a "normal" holiday this Summer - perfectly nice but not very "explorey."

Now as many know, our Cali (2012, 180 4motion) turned out to be a complete PITA. Loads of fun while it worked but IMO any modern diesel just isn't fit for purpose hence common EGR valve/cooler failures, DPF issues, etc. Add the steering column and corrosion issues (we had many more) and our "dream" vehicle turned out to be a nightmare. Did we get a lemon? I had several people contact me when we sold ours, keen to get shot of theirs too; some had many more issues than us. Add four mates who have had to sell their 180 T5.1s (non Calis) and a picture formed that VWs need avoiding.

Anyway we've looked at alternatives - Vitos, the Ford Transit (which IMO is a better van and more reliable but lacks a decent power option and even the best conversions look too "aftermarket"), even motorhomes (just too big for anything but Euro trips). Then renting them. And then caravans.

However we're just not getting very far - is the 140 maybe more reliable than the 180? Could the new T6 Cali (when it comes out) be better made with a proper steering column and roof paint? I have to say I'm a little disappointed that the T6 is such a tiny tiny facelift - more T5.1.2 than T6. And the engines look almost the same.

Sorry for the VW bashing but there's no doubting that the Cali is the best packaged van. If it was just more reliable, we'd get another. Is it worth looking at a 140? Or the T6? Or anything else? Cheers!

 

[reserves]

Welcome back

No problems with my 140

 

[calimera]

We nearly bought a T5 180 DSG but have ordered T6 150 DSG ....time will tell. We looked at the auto express report & YouTube video on driving the T6 multivan.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volkswagen/california/92297/volkswagen-california-t6-review

We also considered waiting for the Marc Polo Merecedes

 

[T6 CFO]

This gets harder by the day. Reliability issues and VW customer care are now my big issues. I want an Ocean with the DSG gearbox and4 motion but as this only comes with the 204 engine I have concerns. Those in the know seem to favour the 150. Add this to the fact that VW can't even update their own UK websites with the latest vehicles and the arrival of the Marco Polo next year and I am now flummoxed. I believe the Marco Polo will be a conversion done by Westfalia who seem to have a good reputation on this board. For the moment I am not placing an order. I want the vehicle to tour for the next 5-10 years and I am prepared to pay a fair price for all the toys I want. I am staggered it is that hard to spend North of 55k with any confidence!

 

[GrannyJen]

23,000 miles so far in some harsh terrain and weather and mechanically the vehicle has been faultless and a delight to drive.

Don't hold your hopes out on a Marco Polo next year, MB are now saying they are having "difficulties" with the adaptation and I was quoted 2017.

A lot of angst at the T6 availability so far but, correct me if I'm wrong, so far all VW have done is open the book for prior-ordering, the launch of the RHD vehicle has not at present taken place so the problems with the T6 are no different than any other major vehicle manufacturer who is accepting pre-launch interest.

The story was exactly the same with the BMW 3 series earlier this year when I was receiving conflicting reports over and over again on what was to be expected from the RHD version. In the end we simply delayed ordering for a year and will wait until a few of them are rolling around the streets.

 

[GrannyJen]

TBH I hear all these discussions on the reliability of a VW California and get a little bit fed up. Are we so incapable of making our own minds up that we have to start listing faults?

If I was so afraid, so terrified, of buying a bundle of incompetently-assembled, unreliable parts then I would not even admit to thinking of buying one. I've had my own problems, never a problem to stop me using and enjoying the vehicle, as much a problem of attitude as anything else, but it has still not dented my confidence in the vehicle and my enthusiasm for using it sufficiently for me to consider anything else, and yes, over the last few months I have looked hard and long at everything else.

Go and look at the competition, weigh it all up, then ask yourself why you are on a forum querying the reliability? If the competition is just so much more superior then why on earth are you even considering the Cali?

 

[T6 CFO]

TBH I hear all these discussions on the reliability of a VW California and get a little bit fed up. Are we so incapable of making our own minds up that we have to start listing faults?

If I was so afraid, so terrified, of buying a bundle of incompetently-assembled, unreliable parts then I would not even admit to thinking of buying one. I've had my own problems, never a problem to stop me using and enjoying the vehicle, as much a problem of attitude as anything else, but it has still not dented my confidence in the vehicle and my enthusiasm for using it sufficiently for me to consider anything else, and yes, over the last few months I have looked hard and long at everything else.

Go and look at the competition, weigh it all up, then ask yourself why you are on a forum querying the reliability? If the competition is just so much more superior then why on earth are you even considering the Cali?

You are no doubt right about this being the norm for manufacturers and more so due to the complications of the vehicle. I shall watch and wait

 

[KernowLad]

We nearly bought a T5 180 DSG but have ordered T6 150 DSG ....time will tell. We looked at the auto express report & YouTube video on driving the T6 multivan.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volkswagen/california/92297/volkswagen-california-t6-review

We also considered waiting for the Marc Polo Merecedes

Veeeery interesting. And tempting too.

I appreciate the balanced answers too; thanks!

 

[KernowLad]

Jen; I'll put up with one or two issues. That's expected. But to have a £50k van off the road for months on end, multiple dealer trips, many common issues, etc is just not on.

We had planned to keep ours long term but reached a point of realisation; it was the most unreliable thing we'd ever bought. We couldn't have looked after ours any better either.

However if there was just an inkling that things had improved, we'd consider another. We've assessed the competition and not much is coming up; I believe the Transit is a better van but no one converts them properly. The Marco Polo looks a bit too big.

It's a tricky one but that Cali money is sat in a bank doing naff all and TBH I think we want another camper.

Hmmmm...

 

[Max-Felix]

VW seem to have three major issues with these vehicles.

1. Mechanical fragility/poor QC of (numerous) components.

2. Camping side fragility/being 'built light'.

3. Roof finishing/paint/corrosion issues.

But they (VW) are seemingly Teflon like, however much VW up the price and lower the quality and churn out the same old thing people still want nothing but Transporters?? It's just the whole VW thing I guess and although I would not buy a T5 because of all the issues I would still look at a last of line T4 Westfalia when they (VW and the converter) knew how to build 'em tough.

 

[GrannyJen]

Jen; I'll put up with one or two issues. That's expected. But to have a £50k van off the road for months on end, multiple dealer trips, many common issues, etc is just not on.

We had planned to keep ours long term but reached a point of realisation; it was the most unreliable thing we'd ever bought. We couldn't have looked after ours any better either.

However if there was just an inkling that things had improved, we'd consider another. We've assessed the competition and not much is coming up; I believe the Transit is a better van but no one converts them properly. The Marco Polo looks a bit too big.

It's a tricky one but that Cali money is sat in a bank doing naff all and TBH I think we want another camper.

Hmmmm...

So if so hacked off with a Cali why come back listing all the faults?

Why not just go and spend the "cali money" on something else?

Sorry Matt, it seems daft to me.

 

[GrannyJen]

VW seem to have three major issues with these vehicles.

1. Mechanical fragility/poor QC of (numerous) components.

2. Camping side fragility/being 'built light'.

3. Roof finishing/paint/corrosion issues.

But they (VW) are seemingly Teflon like, however much VW up the price and lower the quality and churn out the same old thing people still want nothing but Transporters?? It's just the whole VW thing I guess and although I would not buy a T5 because of all the issues I would still look at a last of line T4 Westfalia when they (VW and the converter) knew how to build 'em tough.

1: Can you say for sure? What are the recall percentages of VW's compared to other manufacturers? I know quite a lot of people who drive transporters, who's living is dependent upon their reliability, and who swear that they will have no other for the VW is simply the best.. Why is it the residuals are so high if they are such a heap of mechanically frail parts?

2: I've spent over 100 days in my camper and had enough exciting times in it to fill a coronary unit up and still it holds together and continues to provide robust and comfortable habitation,

3: There is a galvanic reaction with the roof, SOME of the roofs, so given it does not affect the usability or functioning of the vehicle and is covered under warranty why be so nervous?

 

[sidepod]

Max, I'm the same. Our T4 is built like a tank, both inside and out. We looked at a T5 a couple of years back and both came away with the same conclusion - flimsy by comparrison.

That said, I just want one and agree with Gran Jen.

Turmoil.

 

[KernowLad]

Jen; I think you're just reacting over-defensively to a perfectly fair thread.
Look at my old posts; we enjoyed ours, we had some great adventures in it (which we miss) but the damned thing just let us down too much.

If a Cali forum can't contain discussions about issues, what's the point in it?

Maybe you have more time to deal with non stop issues, maybe your dealer is close by, but constant trips to a far away (and TBH rather rubbish) dealer to get yet another issue sorted is not on.

I'm asking non defensive Cali owners if there might be a more reliable alternative Cali to a 180 4motion? I'm asking because, despite all the issues, we could well buy another.

 

[GrannyJen]

The answer is simple.

Do you want a camper? Yes... then evaluate the best FOR YOU and buy it. That's what I did. I am 150% happy with my choice.

I have just gone through the same process as I did 2 years ago and just arrived at the same conclusion. I know all the faults, I know all the weaknesses, if they are so bad then I would buy something else. That's it. Job done.

 

[GrannyJen]

Jen; I think you're just reacting over-defensively to a perfectly fair thread.
Look at my old posts; we enjoyed ours, we had some great adventures in it (which we miss) but the damned thing just let us down too much.

If a Cali forum can't contain discussions about issues, what's the point in it?

Maybe you have more time to deal with non stop issues, maybe your dealer is close by, but constant trips to a far away (and TBH rather rubbish) dealer to get yet another issue sorted is not on.

I'm asking non defensive Cali owners if there might be a more reliable alternative Cali to a 180 4motion? I'm asking because, despite all the issues, we could well buy another.

Firstly Matt, what on Earth have I got to be defensive about? Please don't come out with such patronising statements as "asking Non-defensive cali owners" ....

You know the Cali well enough and know the issues well enough, I just cannot see why you need to come back to a forum where you were the most prolific poster, start off by listing a whole lot of issues that you had with your previous vehicle, then asking about the next one when no one even has one.

Given your unbridled discontent with your vehicle and the dealer network I am just surprised that you would even consider buying another one.

If you want my input, I am intrigued about the 150, if it chucks out nearly as much the same performance as the 180 with less cost and less complications then for me it is a no-brainer. At present I do not know the answer so am reserving my final decision until I have touched the metal.

 

[Max-Felix]

Jen, I understand your love for the Cali. My (then future) wife and I did a huge tour in a T3 and lived in one non-stop for months, I then had a T3 Westy and then self converted a T4. I'm not anti-VW, it's still hard to imagine having any other base vehicle. But it does not take more than a couple of weeks of research to uncover that the T5 is built light' mechanically, the camper side is fragile and they do have numerous (never seemingly updated/resolved) mechanical issues. You cannot just brush off the roof problems (again you have to trawl through the painfully long 'roof corrosion' topic to gauge the true size of the issue) - how an prospective owner would be happy to have a huge chance of going through the whole process on a £50k vehicle beggars belief? Sorry, but it must be unacceptable for VW to continue to produce the roof the same with the same issues in store for owners.

The issue of the roof as I can ascertain is a combination of a metallurgical issue of the aluminium alloy used, poor paint preparation/application (made more difficult by water based EU paints) and the rubber seals used containing a steel stiffener and the general design of sealing which harbours water collection all leading to galvanic corrosion and paint degradation.

That a company with VW's wealth cannot seem to solve this in all the years the issue came to light is extraordinary and either due to incompetence, penny pinching, laziness or a total disregard for their customers. This is where Merceded were a decade or so ago until it came back to bite them, hopefully they will start to build (the T7?) like VW's of old and give back the converting side to Westfalia.

 

[SeismiChris]

Our 140 California will be 3 years old this coming November and has been THE best vehicle we have ever owned. It is an absolute joy to drive, sleep, and cook in. Here I am about to tempt providence but to date we have not had 1 single problem with the vehicle. We LOVE it and so do our 2 sprocker spaniels!!!

Chris and Liz

 

[sidepod]

If it's a 204ps thing over the 150 ps (is it only the higher output engine that has EGR issues?) then go for the 150 and have it re-mapped. You end up with exactly the same software that VW install.

My other vehicle has covered almost 60k now on it's remap without a hint of trouble. I wouldn't hesitate.

Don't be too harsh on VW regarding the flimsyness, the only way vehicle manufacturers can meet ever more stringent emision laws is to make the vehicles lighter. Fact. It may be that Westy don't have the same restraints given that they use a doner vehicle that has already been engineered to meet it's emision target before the camping kit is added. Subtle but important difference.

Personally I'm a very mechanically sympathetic person so I'm unlikely to break very much whilst I'm "camping".

Are roof issues a result of vehicles being left out/used 365 in all weathers and roofs put away wet etc?
My van lives in the barn when not in use so it may not ever experience constant exposure to the elements.

Just putting it out there.

Pod.

 

[KernowLad]

Perhaps a 140 is the answer?
Or the new 150?

We'll keep a close eye on them when releases and maybe get a test drive. Impossible to judge reliability though; I'm hoping the T7 will have a completely different engine but it'll be a long way off.

My Dads T4 Caravelle (converted rather well to a camper) is built like a tank in comparison. A shame they all have tiny power engines.

 

[KernowLad]

Of all the issues we had, the roof one didn't actually bother me all that much; as Jen said, it didn't cause a problem with general use.

It was the steering column and emissions related ancillaries that annoyed me. Sadly all diesels have them which is a big reason we now drive two petrol cars.

 

[sidepod]

A shame they all have tiny power engines.

Not so. Find a nice clean late 03 T4 Westy with the 150 Tdi and you're sorted. Price circa Euro 20k.

 

[KernowLad]

A shame they all have tiny power engines.

Not so. Find a nice clean late 03 T4 Westy with the 150 Tdi and you're sorted. Price circa Euro 20k.

Hmmm...sounds good.

 

[sidepod]

At least three here

www.mobile.de

 

[Max-Felix]

Lots about but not cheap, funny enough someone was asking about T4 Westys on 'another' forum, posted some links here:

http://www.vwt4forum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=3216682&postcount=8