Roof bellows possibly damaged by dealer

[SimonSpain]

Hi All,

Just seen this and sent this message to some good folk on the Forum, so thought I'd just post the message for all to see....and help if they can!


Hi, I am living in Spain but am from the UK. I purchased a VW California SE or Comfortline as it's called here and have purchased some Brandup parts from you guys in the past. I have just been getting some stuff sorted under guarantee here and on collecting the Cali have noticed a line in the bellows running exactly where the front long strut runs. From the inside it appears as a light line as the sun shines on it. The bellows has a few lines like that in the material, but this on closer inspecting is actually cut through the material. I have brought this to the attention of the VW Dealer who has been fixing stuff, not to place blame but to see what we can do. They have taken photos and are sending them to VW. My worry is that VW may not take responsibility and say it was the Dealer or myself that has caused this cut. But to me it appears to me a manufacturing fault as I can't see how it could have been cut just raising and lowering the roof, as it's not a scissor type cut it's like it's been forced against the strut...which is sharper at the bottom edge...and has abraided against somehow...or maybe a tool has done it when the bellows was being fitted.

Sorry to send such a long email when I never bought the Cali from you guys but I'd be interested to know if you have seen this before and what it might be. Also if the bellows did need changing, I imagine in is a rather huge job....and not cheap either. Would it be better just to patch it??...horrible looking but maybe the Dealer can do more damage than good changing the bellows? They have done one and said it was quite a job.

Thanks and hope to hear from someone soon. Kind regards,

Simon Horrocks

ps...maybe the following aren't images as I can't see how to load any...

 

[logyk]

Re: Roof bellows damaged by dealer

Had a similar cut on mine when I picked it up - it was replaced under warranty.

 

[T5WOB]

Re: Roof bellows damaged by dealer

had same putting roof down on windy day .cut it bad were the plastic is on side :headband .never had this crap happen on my t4 westie

 

[SimonSpain]

Re: Roof bellows damaged by dealer

Hi....I can't see how a cut like that could be made lowering the roof....but please if someone knows better can you let me know....as not keen to blame the dealer if it did happen on my watch. as it were. I think I remember seeing a thin lighter line like a thread had been caught...there are about 3 others similar in random places. But a scissor cut from the mechanism would be far rougher I feel and when the area cut folds in, it goes nowhere near any metal just sandwiches in the roof lining. I am really worried that VW will just blame me and the dealer has gone on the defensive I think. More than anything I'd just like to know how the hell it happened as I have never ever caught the roof bellows in the mechanism. I hate letting other folk have the Cali as you never know what might happen and then you see this. Wish I'd never put it in, but the roof lining fixings were broken aswell as a few other silly things. But a ripped roof bellows isn't silly...it's a rather huge issue and one I never wanted to have to face. :censor :censor

Cheers guys and keep any ideas coming.

 

[smgcowfoldparts]

Difficult to tell 100% what has happened. Can you take some other photos from further away so it is easier to gauge where the holes are on the bellows?

thanks

 

[SimonSpain]

Hi...will certainly do that tomorrow, thanks. It's on the left-hand side of the bellows in the same line as the big strut that goes from the track at the bottom up to the front corner of the raised roof (it has a plate that it slides on up at the roof end) The cut is parallel to that longest strut and just above where the side window is. I didn't post these pics here, Martin very kindly did, so could I send the pics to an email address? Happy to try again, but couldn't see how you actually upload pics... . I did say to the dealer today that I think it is a VW fault and not caused by him as I didn't want him to become unhelpful thinking I was accusing them of the damage. I can't see how he could or I could have done it, I really can't so I am thinking it must have been a fault in the fabric or a razor sharp graze or cut that has finally been spotted. Odd as I am super super inspection conscious and just would have seen an open cut I feel.

Thanks and speak soon I hope.

Simon

 

[SimonSpain]

.....just had a bad thought! The dealer was fitting new fixing studs that hold the headlining to the roof-bed frame. He would have had to raise the roof to then raise the bed on it's gas struts to squeeze the grey fixing studs...like domed headed bolts with a short shank that needs to be pressed in through the holes in the side of the roof lining and into the metal side rails of the bed. I did see that you have to raise the bed to do this as when it's flat..as a bed...the gas struts get in the way of the holes. Maybe when he was squeezing one of the studs in near the strut, he used the strut as purchase to get the stud in and at the point where he trapped the fabric between the strut and his hand ...or a small hammer I saw him using for leverage....he cut the material without knowing it. I tried to push one in that he had missed, with my hand and couldn't do it, so it needs a fair bit of leverge. Maybe he used the roof strut as leverage and cut the fabric at that pressure point. That would be a great thing to have to try and explain...and then get them to fix it at their cost... .....I will look tomorrow to see if he could have done that...accidentally pressed that part against the steel strut...which is stupidly sharp anyway...and made a small cut. Oh...poop!!!.... if so!!! ....I love that wall! :lol:

 

[SimonSpain]

Hi all...not been able to get the Cali out and raise the roof to take some better pics of the position of the cut...will try tomorrow....as I want to back to the dealer and explain what I believe happened....mechanic trapping the material during repairs on roof-bed. He's more likely to remember ...or at least quietly to himself....if I confront them with my hypothesis asap I think. Not a road I really wanted to travel down to be honest!....and incredibly I have just seen a small plastic cover plate on the passenger seat is now loose...damaged fixing.... . I know it wasn't myself or my wife....but what does one do...complain more or swallow that he's a nice guy but clumsy and pay for it ourselves!!!! Never let the Cali out of your sight I say!!!!

 

[SimonSpain]

Hi all...or anyone interested.... :lol: :lol: . Went to speak with the dealer today...with the Wife.... , and after initially being a little sceptical, when I explained what I thought had happened and how easy it would be to press the bellows against the outer strut unknowingly and cut the material, he acknowledged that this was the most likely reason. Now whether he will now honour a claim we have yet to find out :? :? If it is a guarantee repair, whatever is fine by me. He is suggesting its a huge job and more so for the care he'll need to take but I have been told it's a few hours...which I assume is maybe 4 or 5 hours. Anybody shed some light on that? :?: :?: .....Even thinking maybe we just drive to the UK on a holiday and get it fixed by a reputable dealer over there who has done more than just the one bellows change...like my dealer has!!!

Ok some pics of position etc. Thanks to all for helping, it really is great to have some support from folk who know these vehicles and/or who work on them for a living!

Cheers, Simon

 

[SimonSpain]

More pic....s! :lol: Slowly getting the hang of this uploading.... ....like I said...I do love that wall! :doh

 

[Californiaman]

I believe it is quite a task to replace the bellows!

What year is the van? Are you likely to need your roof repairing due to the aluminium bubbling problem? If so, try and get the two done at the same time.

If you plan to keep the van long term, I would be tempted to see if you can get the replacement parts and then store them for a (much) later date. Make the best repair you can in the meantime and save the news bellows for when the current ones wear out! It may end up costing you some labour at the time but perhaps it would be worth it.

 

[slowcoach65]

I had mine replaced on warranty. It took a whole day. They did an excellent job.

Andy.

 

[smgcowfoldparts]

It takes us maybe three hours in total to do, not a big job at all. I can tell you from personal experience when helping the techs change them in the past that it does really hurt your thumbs fitting the new bellows in place. If they do the repair then make sure that the bellows are fitted properly on the inside as well as the outside otherwise they will start to pop off the metal roof when it is raised.

Can always do it for you when you are over, we have done a lot in the past 6 years or so and all of our techs are more than capable of doing them.

Roof up, bellows off, new bellows on, roof down. Nothing has to be removed or loosened to do this repair.

cheers

 

[SimonSpain]

Thanks for the replies!! It's odd...one person says whole day and then Alex says 3 hours! :doh ....I think it is clearly a job that if you don't really do it much, it takes a lot more time!

If we can, I would very very much rather experts like you guys at SMG Cowford do it as I can see it is a very specific skill. I will see what happens with the claim....in January now thanks to Christmas/New Year. My van is a brand new 2013 model and have not seen any blistering yet :?: :?:
I don't think I can change anything unless we can actually see a problem though....maybe the whole van.... :lol: :lol:

I see your sense in getting the bellows and changing it later, but storing the thing and keeping it safe would be a bit of a pain....and then I'd need to drive over to the UK with it if I wanted to get it fixed by folk who actually know what they are doing...

I am sure there must be a VW dealer here in Spain with the ability to do it correctly and swiftly, but you'd be surprised at the different mentality here concerning 'professionalism' and the whole concept of that. It really is very very different, I am yet to understand why..

Finally, of course with the repairs to the roof-lining done, we are seeing marks all around the edge of the roof-lining where the mechanic has done the repair. Is it just me or would it not seem unreasonable to use fresh clean gloves or super-clean hands and tools to do this. The problem with the Cali is that it is NOT a car and is a living space, so even a mechanic entering with semi-dirty clothes is going to be a risk. What to dealers do to stop this please? Any way to clean the smudges or am I now looking at a new roof lining? It's a real case of better of just leaving it I think....went in for a few roof fixings to be replaced and dow have a ripped bellows and dirty roof-lining... It's really quite unbelievable.

Thanks again for your help guys :cool :cool :goodone

ps...does that cut look like what I said, or any other ideas?

 

[smgcowfoldparts]

If we are working inside a California for a big job such as roof bellows, then our techs take their overalls off and also boots so that they are in socks and always wear clean/new gloves. We also try to get a vehicle cleaned when we have been inside working on it to try and remove any marks of any description.

cheers

 

[SimonSpain]

Thanks Alex...yes he takes his work boots off but has work clothing on. It's the clean hands idea....and tools also which is a problem.....and how do you tell a mechanic to do that and not offend ....clearly any car with light coloued interior is a risk from such a problem. I am super-meticulous so that mentality doesn't help me forgive such obvious protocol. Cleaning fluids????.... or anything that would help me not to have to say...'your gorilla has just ruined my roof lining as well as the cut in the bellows!!! :censor :censor "....and it's a shame as he's a nice enough chap and the boss says he's the best they have....oh dear....am I just being a horrible person?

Cheers again and so fast....lol...that is NOT like here....I'd wait 2 weeks for any reply! :doh

 

[smgcowfoldparts]

No problem, happy to help

 

[SimonSpain]

You are a star Alex and everyone on here says so ...just a quicky question and then will not bother you more Alex.....well today.... :laugh2 :laugh2

How much is a new bellows? And price with fitting etc?

Just so when they give me some 'silly' price I can gauge whether or not it is silly!

 

[smgcowfoldparts]

Full retail prices is roughly £545 + VAT

cheers

 

[SimonSpain]

Is that price just bellows or fitting also?...LOL...more questions and I promised I wouldn't bother you! :doh

 

[smgcowfoldparts]

That is a fitted price.

thanks

 

[SimonSpain]

Are you in Croydon, Tonbridge or Sussex Alex??

Wow...that sounds like it'd be well worth getting it done there Alex! I'd wait a week or more at least and end up with more problems I feel if I got it done here :censor ....not bad folk, just clumsy and just don't think of possible problems I feel. Shame, because we had 3 years of the same kind of issues with a brand new Mini Clubman we purchased. I am sure I am very finickity.. ....but when you pay such a high price for a Cali...you expect the breaking will be done by you, not by a repair garage!! :doh :doh

Is the bellows big or can it be folded when off the van?

Other question....headlining? Clean grubby hand marks? Not too bad but it was clean and light grey? How much is a new headlining if I went that extreme?

I promise I will stop asking...one day soon!

 

[smgcowfoldparts]

I am in Sussex, about 20 minutes south of Gatwick so nice and easy to get too. I would have thought that most marks will be able to be cleaned off. The bellows fold up once off the van and before they are fitted.

cheers

 

[SimonSpain]

Perfect...if we do go the route of new bellows and I am not convinced they can do a 100% proper job...we'll def. come over to the UK. I have family in Hove, so I know the area well and I think it'd be a wonderful trip....let's see what they have to say in January and thanks tonnes again Alex! :hello :cool

 

[smgcowfoldparts]

No worries.

Hope all goes well

cheers