VW California T5 ONLY Roof Corrosion - General Discussion

[James H]

I was disappointed to discover today whilst having a MOT and end of warranty check that my May 2014 California has the front panel corrosion. I somewhat expected the elevating roof to show corrosion from reading this forum and talking to other owners but not the front panel. When I bought the vehicle 3 years ago to the day, I was assured by the salesman (South Hereford) the corrosion issue had been fixed during late 2013. Not so it now appears. Peter Sowden ( Carrs, Exeter ) has taken pictures so I await the repair. Though its a disappointment for such an expensive vehicle, I'm not going to let it concern me too much. I'm awaiting contact from Peter (who I've always found helpful, sociable and professional and whom I've tried to build a rapport with)

 

[sbmcd]

I was disappointed to discover today whilst having a MOT and end of warranty check that my May 2014 California has the front panel corrosion. I somewhat expected the elevating roof to show corrosion from reading this forum and talking to other owners but not the front panel. When I bought the vehicle 3 years ago to the day, I was assured by the salesman (South Hereford) the corrosion issue had been fixed during late 2013. Not so it now appears. Peter Sowden ( Carrs, Exeter ) has taken pictures so I await the repair. Though its a disappointment for such an expensive vehicle, I'm not going to let it concern me too much. I'm awaiting contact from Peter (who I've always found helpful, sociable and professional and whom I've tried to build a rapport with)

Not good news, have VW confirmed this a warranty work? The reason I ask I had some tiny stone chips that had started blisters on the rear wheel arch, had to pay for the re spray myself. We had all thought that the front panel issue was sorted by 2014.

 

[sbmcd]

I was disappointed to discover today whilst having a MOT and end of warranty check that my May 2014 California has the front panel corrosion. I somewhat expected the elevating roof to show corrosion from reading this forum and talking to other owners but not the front panel. When I bought the vehicle 3 years ago to the day, I was assured by the salesman (South Hereford) the corrosion issue had been fixed during late 2013. Not so it now appears. Peter Sowden ( Carrs, Exeter ) has taken pictures so I await the repair. Though its a disappointment for such an expensive vehicle, I'm not going to let it concern me too much. I'm awaiting contact from Peter (who I've always found helpful, sociable and professional and whom I've tried to build a rapport with)

Could you please post a photo of your front panel corrosion?

 

[James H]

Not good news, have VW confirmed this a warranty work? The reason I ask I had some tiny stone chips that had started blisters on the rear wheel arch, had to pay for the re spray myself. We had all thought that the front panel issue was sorted by 2014.

No VW haven't yet confirmed they will carry out the repair, I should hear within the next fortnight apparently. It was hard to photograph ( bubbling paint top right ) however I could certainly feel it with my finger. I will see if I can take a picture which is suitable for posting.

 

[Vantastic2]

Got the Cali back from Listers Coventry / Nationwide-Gladwins Swaversy. Was 4 weeks rather than the quoted 7-10 days but I have to say I'm very pleased with the work, especially considering the horror stories I've seen. As long as the paintwork lasts corrosion free then all good. It was returned in a very clean condition and as far as I can see with roof up and down, everything is OK, no damages or marks anywhere inside or out.


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Just been looking at your photos after the repair, looks good, not like ours( no paint on polished stainless steel rails and no roof seal score in one place and was not put back on roof properly, mastic poorly applied on one side after new cap fitted and no dust inside Cali ) Gladwins Swavesey improvements ?

 

[Bramco]

Spoke to parts dept at local van centre, part is shown as 'protective film' no part number available, local VW normally very good will chase VW for an answer.

They said they do have a company that fits protective film to bodywork, and that they could fit the tape for me. Once we know what it is of course, I suspect it is 3M protective film tape as I have on my wheel arches.

I will keep you posted.

@sbmcd Have you been able to get anywhere with either finding the part number or the company that fits protective film?

I took a peak at our roof the other week and it seems to be still corrosion free. If we get to the end of the 3 year warranty period in November and we're still OK then it would make sense for us to whack on some protective tape a la the factory fix on the T6. In fact it probably makes sense to do it asap if there is no sign yet of corrosion even though that might invalidate the warranty.

 

[Rob H]

Re: Blistering Paintwork Front Roof Pannel

I’ve just had the panel above the windscreen repainted due to very slight corrosion along the upper edge, near where the front of the elevating roof closes. The work was done under warranty via SMG Cowfold, but carried out by a VW approved body shop at Tunbridge Wells called Motorcare.

I am grateful to Alex at SMG who filed the warranty claim and organised the work. I was loaned a T5 van by SMG for the week that my Cali was in for repair. The quality of the repair job is excellent.

My reason for posting this on the forum is that I spoke to Motorcare about this corrosion problem, which according to this forum is not uncommon. I asked if there was anything that they or I could do to prevent the corrosion from reoccurring. Their view was that the problem was caused by the rubber seal chaffing the paintwork and allowing moisture to get at the metal. The suggested solution, once the paint had hardened, was to fit a self-adhesive clear protection film along the length of the gutter that run across the vehicle. This is the gutter that the rubber seal closes into when the elevating roof shuts

The guy that I spoke to at Motorcare said that these clear paint protector films were often fitted to high-end cars to prevent chaffing on door shuts. Modern water based paints are to blame. I have an elderly Mercedes SL that is done in two-pack resin paint and you could take a Brillo pad to it!

I plan to fit one of these paint protector films to my Cali in the new year. Motorcare recommended a company in Essex called Armafend. http://www.armourfend.co.uk/

Has anyone else had experience of this type of product to prevent the roof panel corrosion problem? Perhaps VW should fit the protector film to new Cali’s.

issues

For similar vibration /paint scuffing issues at the rear of vehicle contact areas of my VW based pop top, I've just ordered some Grayston flexible carbon kevlar self adhesive (3M's adhesive) sheet, will apply after repairing lacquer and base coat contact areas.

 

[sbmcd]

@sbmcd Have you been able to get anywhere with either finding the part number or the company that fits protective film?

I took a peak at our roof the other week and it seems to be still corrosion free. If we get to the end of the 3 year warranty period in November and we're still OK then it would make sense for us to whack on some protective tape a la the factory fix on the T6. In fact it probably makes sense to do it asap if there is no sign yet of corrosion even though that might invalidate the warranty.

Not yet, still chasing.

 

[Nick G]

Got my Cali back last Friday from Marshalls in Newbury (arranged by SMG Croydon). The work looks very good quality. It took almost three weeks but worth waiting for. I had a T6 panel van while the cali was away which was actually quite useful as I did a few 'large item' deliveries/moves. Strange that the front section repairs can look quite different depending on the bodyshop. Unlike some the black mastic is visible on my repair. It is very clean and even so not a problem. Fingers crossed it will last.

 

[leightonjthomas]

Got my Cali back last Friday from Marshalls in Newbury (arranged by SMG Croydon). The work looks very good quality. It took almost three weeks but worth waiting for. I had a T6 panel van while the cali was away which was actually quite useful as I did a few 'large item' deliveries/moves. Strange that the front section repairs can look quite different depending on the bodyshop. Unlike some the black mastic is visible on my repair. It is very clean and even so not a problem. Fingers crossed it will last.

Mine is going to Marshalls on 7th August. I'm hoping for a similar result.

 

[briwy]

Good to read in the thread that Claridges in Southport have done a decent job.
Ours is booked in there in January after dealing VW in Sheffield. We could have had it done in August but as the van is in use virtually all the time decided to leave it until Jan when we won't be using the van much.
Have to say that the process so far has been quick. First reported the corrosion, both minor on the front panel and under the seal, a couple of months ago at Sheffield and am surprised that it could be done so soon.
Without wading through the whole thread I don't know if there is an explanation of the cause but this is what I was told yesterday.
Two different reasons for the corrosion.
The rubber seal has a steel reinforcing strip in it which rusts as moisture gathers inside the seal. This moisture then gets under the paint on the roof and lifts it (to me this is understanable but points to poor paint preparation). The roof is repainted where necessary (ie, under the seal) and a new seal without the metal reinforcement is fitted.
The front panel is more complex. The panel forms part of the strengthening of the bodyshell after the hole is cut in the roof and is welded to the bodyshell so it's not possible to electrically isolate the two metals. (not sure about this welding bit as welding two different metals isn't straightforward, I'd be interested to know if anyone saw this being done during the recent factory visit?)
The corrosion is cut away and then the panel is treated before having the plastic cover put on.
We all know it is an electolytic reaction between the two different metals that causes the problem and it appears that water gathering in channels at the base of the panel doesn't drain away and acts as the electrolyte to cause the problem. So if you never get your van wet you will never get corrosion, perhaps vans that are garaged are less prone than ones standing outside?
Alltogether a bit of a ballsup on the behalf of VW designers.
I'm still a bit unsure about this front panel repair as it seems to me that the corrosion will carry on underneath the new cover. If this part is an integral structural component then that's not good news. Merely hiding the problem, not curing it. Time will tell.

 

[Bramco]

and a new seal without the metal reinforcement is fitted.

Is that correct? I'd understood that either the old seal was clagged back on or a replacement, i.e. from spares was fitted. If there were a seal without the steel reinforcement I think a lot of folks would have fitted one to prevent the issue.

 

[briwy]

The warranty chap at Sheffield told me that it is the latest T6 seal that is fitted. Makes more sense than refitting one which is known to give problems.

 

[Nick G]

The warranty chap at Sheffield told me that it is the latest T6 seal that is fitted. Makes more sense than refitting one which is known to give problems.

Looking at the new seal fitted to my van that came back last Friday it is definitely as the T6. Not as the old seal which was far 'harder'. This one is all nice and 'squingy' (see I've gone a bit technical there) and without pulling it off I'm pretty certain that it has no metal in it.

 

[Bramco]

The warranty chap at Sheffield told me that it is the latest T6 seal that is fitted

Hi briwy - the question is - is the new T6 seal constructed without the steel reinforcement? I've not heard this from any other posts. My understanding was that there was a new process which included putting tape around the edge before fitting the seal. Which would help to stop any stray bits of rusty steel in the seal from breaking through the paint onto the aluminium.

As I said in my earlier post, if the new seal is really constructed without the steel reinforcement then I'd be the first to order one from VW and fit it in place of the current seal. But my suspicion is that they haven't changed the seal at all just added the tape.

Anyone else out there have any info on this?

 

[Bramco]

Looking at the new seal fitted to my van that came back last Friday it is definitely as the T6. Not as the old seal which was far 'harder'. This one is all nice and 'squingy' (see I've gone a bit technical there) and without pulling it off I'm pretty certain that it has no metal in it.

Do you have any photos?

 

[SusiBus]

I have just checked and the seal for the T5 2010 on (part number 7E7 875 297) is the same as listed for the T6, and it HAS a metal insert. Whether the seals being fitted on new build T6's at the factory have been modified I don' t know.

The aluminium front box section of the roof is bonded to the steel body not welded.

 

[Bramco]

I have just checked and the seal for the T5 2010 on (part number 7E7 875 297) is the same as listed for the T6, and it HAS a metal insert.

Thanks for checking Susibus - confirms what I think we all had assumed that they haven't changed the seal spec.

 

[briwy]

The aluminium front box section of the roof is bonded to the steel body not welded.

That's what I thought, not welded. So there wouldn't appear to be any reason why they can't put an isolation layer in the bonding. Other companies have been mixing aluminium and steel panels for years without problems. I think some companies use a sacrificial piece of zinc.
I'm amazed that they are still doing it the same way after admitting that the problem exists.

 

[SusiBus]

An isolation material to separate the two dissimilar metals i.e.the front alley roof box section and the steel bodywork was introduced as and from Q1 2013 build. Which I think means that any vehicle from about March 2013 should have the isolation.
It appears that the isolation material would also work as a gasket to also stop water penetration.

 

[briwy]

Yes well another VW failure then as it hasn't worked on our mid 2014 van.

 

[SusiBus]

Yes I'm aware that some has become scabby since the March 2013 build date. I think subsequently there was some talk of VW improving the primer and making it more zinc rich.
It'll be interesting to see if the latest Hi-Tech sticking plaster approach on the T6 is effective, but I'm not holding my breath!
I really think the answer lies in the soil, sorry seal. It appears that the R&D department don't, unless no one's inform them of the problem!

 

[Calihunter]

I'm still a bit unsure about this front panel repair as it seems to me that the corrosion will carry on underneath the new cover. If this part is an integral structural component then that's not good news. Merely hiding the problem, not curing it. Time will tell.

Hi Briwy,
Couple of photos of my front panel repair I thought might be of interest! Gives more of an insight as to what lurks beneath!!

 

[briwy]

Good grief, that looks horrendous. I still don't see how it stops what remains of the original panel from corroding further though

 

[2into1]

The dissimilar materials will need oxygen and perhaps water in order to corrode won't they? So if the new cap is air / water tight, the interior should be close to stable (I hope). Plenty of sealant may be a good sign if my logic is correct.