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Running on HVO bio diesel

jliungman

jliungman

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39
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Sweden
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T5 SE 174
Hi!
I am new to the forum and I just purchased a 2006 T5. Since I am otherwise inclined towards living an environmentally low impact life, I am a little bothered about the fact that I am now buying Saudi diesel.
What options are there? Where I live (Sweden), HVO (bio diesel) is becoming increasingly available. Up to 49% HVO mix is supposedly ok. But Can I run my Cali on 100% HVO? I am aware that VW do not currently endorse it, but many car makers do. It seems reasonable to believe that it would work just fine. Has anyone out there tried?
Thanks!
John
 
Borris

Borris

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Canterbury
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T6 Beach 150
Hi!
I am new to the forum and I just purchased a 2006 T5. Since I am otherwise inclined towards living an environmentally low impact life, I am a little bothered about the fact that I am now buying Saudi diesel.
What options are there? Where I live (Sweden), HVO (bio diesel) is becoming increasingly available. Up to 49% HVO mix is supposedly ok. But Can I run my Cali on 100% HVO? I am aware that VW do not currently endorse it, but many car makers do. It seems reasonable to believe that it would work just fine. Has anyone out there tried?
Thanks!
John
Hello,
I have T6 Beach. I'm certain that I've read somewhere in the instruction manual that you shouldn't run a T6 on Bio Diesel. I know not why. I'm afraid that I don't know about the T5 even though I had one. It would be worth a quick scan through the manual.
 
jliungman

jliungman

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Messages
39
Location
Sweden
Vehicle
T5 SE 174
Hello,
I have T6 Beach. I'm certain that I've read somewhere in the instruction manual that you shouldn't run a T6 on Bio Diesel. I know not why. I'm afraid that I don't know about the T5 even though I had one. It would be worth a quick scan through the manual.

Hi!
(thanks admin for moving the post here)

I think in general car makers are careful not to make promises that older vehicles can handle newer fuels for which they have not been tested. So I think you are right. The question is whether any daring soul out there tried anyway?

John
 
Loz

Loz

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I thought this was due to the composition of the seals used in the engine that would be damaged/prematurely perished by the use of 100% BioDiesel. All fuel sold on the forecourt these days has to have some in it.

VW Biodiesel statement

This information is correct at time of publication/review 3rd March 2010 Standard Forecourt Fuel – BS EN 590 Volkswagen Group does approve the use of diesel fuel containing up to 7% Biodiesel in all of their diesel vehicles.
The change to legislation on 1st April 2010, insists that fuel suppliers must use at least 3.5% Biofuel in diesel production. In accordance with European legislation (Directive 2003/30/EC) the Biofuel content in forecourt fuel will gradually increase over the next few years, to meet the objective to reduce the lifecycle greenhouse gas emissions produced by road transport.
Filling station forecourts supply diesel (to the standard BS EN590), which can now contain up to 7% Biodiesel with at least 93% Fossil fuel.
The use of this fuel requires no modifications to the vehicle or changes to the vehicles’ maintenance schedule. Important: BS EN 590 is approved for vehicles fitted with a Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF).
B30 Biodiesel Volkswagen Group does not approve the use of B30 Biodiesel in any of its vehicles. B30 Biodiesel is a blend of 70% Fossil fuel and 30% Biofuel, derived from Fatty Acid Methyl Ester (FAME). The use of this fuel in Volkswagen Group vehicles may invalidate the engine and exhaust system warranty.
100% Biodiesel Certain Volkswagen Group vehicle models are approved to run on 100% Rapeseed Methyl Ester (RME) Biodiesel. 100% RME Biodiesel compatible parts fitted during manufacture of the vehicle is denoted by the vehicle PR code 2G0, which is found on the data sticker; however some of the older vehicles may not have this PR code. Always refer to the Owner’s Handbook and factory information regarding the vehicle’s compliance with Biodiesel before using this fuel type. In vehicles that are 100% Biodiesel compatible, Volkswagen Group has only approved the use of Rapeseed Methyl Ester (RME) to standard DIN EN 14214.
No other Biodiesel can be used.
Important: • Vehicles that do not have the factory preparation for Biodiesel cannot use 100% Biodiesel.
• Vehicles fitted with a Common Rail fuel injection system cannot use 100% Biodiesel.
• Vehicles fitted with Pumpe-Duse injectors cannot use 100% Biodiesel.
Vehicles fitted with a Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) cannot use 100% Biodiesel, however EN590 containing up to 7% Biodiesel is approved for use with DPF.
• 100% Biodiesel vehicles cannot be used in temperatures below -10°C.
• The use of 100% Biodiesel may slightly reduce the driving performance of the vehicle and slightly increase the fuel consumption. • The use of 100% Biodiesel may increase the frequency of the maintenance schedule on the vehicle.
See attached for the full statement.
 

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jliungman

jliungman

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Messages
39
Location
Sweden
Vehicle
T5 SE 174
I thought this was due to the composition of the seals used in the engine that would be damaged/prematurely perished by the use of 100% BioDiesel. All fuel sold on the forecourt these days has to have some in it.

VW Biodiesel statement

This information is correct at time of publication/review 3rd March 2010 Standard Forecourt Fuel – BS EN 590 Volkswagen Group does approve the use of diesel fuel containing up to 7% Biodiesel in all of their diesel vehicles.
The change to legislation on 1st April 2010, insists that fuel suppliers must use at least 3.5% Biofuel in diesel production. In accordance with European legislation (Directive 2003/30/EC) the Biofuel content in forecourt fuel will gradually increase over the next few years, to meet the objective to reduce the lifecycle greenhouse gas emissions produced by road transport.
Filling station forecourts supply diesel (to the standard BS EN590), which can now contain up to 7% Biodiesel with at least 93% Fossil fuel.
The use of this fuel requires no modifications to the vehicle or changes to the vehicles’ maintenance schedule. Important: BS EN 590 is approved for vehicles fitted with a Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF).
B30 Biodiesel Volkswagen Group does not approve the use of B30 Biodiesel in any of its vehicles. B30 Biodiesel is a blend of 70% Fossil fuel and 30% Biofuel, derived from Fatty Acid Methyl Ester (FAME). The use of this fuel in Volkswagen Group vehicles may invalidate the engine and exhaust system warranty.
100% Biodiesel Certain Volkswagen Group vehicle models are approved to run on 100% Rapeseed Methyl Ester (RME) Biodiesel. 100% RME Biodiesel compatible parts fitted during manufacture of the vehicle is denoted by the vehicle PR code 2G0, which is found on the data sticker; however some of the older vehicles may not have this PR code. Always refer to the Owner’s Handbook and factory information regarding the vehicle’s compliance with Biodiesel before using this fuel type. In vehicles that are 100% Biodiesel compatible, Volkswagen Group has only approved the use of Rapeseed Methyl Ester (RME) to standard DIN EN 14214.
No other Biodiesel can be used.
Important: • Vehicles that do not have the factory preparation for Biodiesel cannot use 100% Biodiesel.
• Vehicles fitted with a Common Rail fuel injection system cannot use 100% Biodiesel.
• Vehicles fitted with Pumpe-Duse injectors cannot use 100% Biodiesel.
Vehicles fitted with a Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) cannot use 100% Biodiesel, however EN590 containing up to 7% Biodiesel is approved for use with DPF.
• 100% Biodiesel vehicles cannot be used in temperatures below -10°C.
• The use of 100% Biodiesel may slightly reduce the driving performance of the vehicle and slightly increase the fuel consumption. • The use of 100% Biodiesel may increase the frequency of the maintenance schedule on the vehicle.
See attached for the full statement.

Thanks for the comprehensive info!

I must point out however, that HVO is not the same as FAME and RME. HVO is very close to chemically identical to fossil diesel (although not 100% identical). Also, in Sweden, any diesel you sell must, by law, contain at least 20% renewable fuel. So it would seem strange if this was not permitted by the car makers. Maybe the quoted text is a bit out of date?
 
briwy

briwy

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I was running a diesel Passat and then a diesel Octavia round about 2006 and both had stickers on the fuel cap saying no bio fuel. Surely the best way is to ask your local knowelgeable VW dealer and the decide if you believe them. Hopefully they are better informed than uk ones.
 
jliungman

jliungman

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Messages
39
Location
Sweden
Vehicle
T5 SE 174
I was running a diesel Passat and then a diesel Octavia round about 2006 and both had stickers on the fuel cap saying no bio fuel. Surely the best way is to ask your local knowelgeable VW dealer and the decide if you believe them. Hopefully they are better informed than uk ones.

Thanks for your input! I am absolutely certain that VW will say no. But this is a warranty thing rather than technical fact. I was wondering if anyone actually tried HVO or has info on any tests. And, yes, you are right, I should probably check more locally, maybe HVO is just a thing in Scandinavia?
 
DavidofHook

DavidofHook

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882
Location
Hampshire
Vehicle
T5 SE 140
Hi!
I am new to the forum and I just purchased a 2006 T5. Since I am otherwise inclined towards living an environmentally low impact life, I am a little bothered about the fact that I am now buying Saudi diesel.
What options are there? Where I live (Sweden), HVO (bio diesel) is becoming increasingly available. Up to 49% HVO mix is supposedly ok. But Can I run my Cali on 100% HVO? I am aware that VW do not currently endorse it, but many car makers do. It seems reasonable to believe that it would work just fine. Has anyone out there tried?
Thanks!
John
Our T5 Cali was new in 2012 and it says in various places, no bio fuel.
 
I

Ignatus

Messages
1
Location
Norway
Vehicle
T5 Cali on order
According to some local know how around these parts, the more bio diesel you put in your van, the more likely the webasto heaters will clog up and need replacing or at least open up and clean the distributor pad. If it’s true or not, I could not say, but I try to fill from the stations with the least amount of bio diesel. Better safe than sorry. I need my heater functional in the frozen north
 
TripleBee

TripleBee

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2,796
Location
melkwegstelsel
Vehicle
T5 SE 140
I have seen an Audi A4 from 1996 running on 100% frying oil, but in the winter, the system got all clogged up because of the oil being too thick. Every couple of 1000 km he needed a new diesel filter.

I know for sure that the common rail diesel engines as from 2009 up to now, will not stand anything other than the approved fuel (perhaps they can stand more bio than that 7% stated, but VW won't take any risk if damage would occur), so I will never use more than 7% bio diesel.

The engines from the T5 from 2003 - 2009 can handle a bit more, because they don't have that fragile high pressure fuel pump. The only thing you could have is some injectors wearing faster, but I am not sure of that.

So it is up to you if you want to give it a go, but I would not recommend it, and certainly not in the engines as from 2009 and up.
 
O

oskarln

Messages
2
Location
Sweden
Vehicle
Just browsing
Hi!
I am new to the forum and I just purchased a 2006 T5. Since I am otherwise inclined towards living an environmentally low impact life, I am a little bothered about the fact that I am now buying Saudi diesel.
What options are there? Where I live (Sweden), HVO (bio diesel) is becoming increasingly available. Up to 49% HVO mix is supposedly ok. But Can I run my Cali on 100% HVO? I am aware that VW do not currently endorse it, but many car makers do. It seems reasonable to believe that it would work just fine. Has anyone out there tried?
Thanks!
John
Anyone got any updates on this or have you gotten any further jliungman?
 
M

marchugo

Messages
340
I drive my 2009 T5.1 Cali with HVO for some years. It's not a bio diesel, but pure synthetic diesel, chemically reconstructed from bio waste. Producer is the Finnish company Neste, that have a refinery here in Rotterdam, The Netherlands.

Never had any issues with the motor or with leaking seals, although I was warned for leaking seals by Volkswagen. I do not mix HVO with old fashioned diesels. No need for that so far.

Driving is smooth, diesel consumption is about 5 to 8 percent less, depending on driving style.

Price is an issue: here in Holland about 16 to 18 eurocents higher than premium diesel. There are more and more gas stations with HVO in the Netherlands, though I have to drive an extra mile or ten to find one.

Communication with Neste is a bit non existing. They do not answer technical questions on their website, and the Dutch distributors EG Retail and Tamoil too do not reply on emails. Rather strange for an upcoming brand.

Abroad on hollidays (Germany, Italy, France) I use premium diesel from BP/Aral. (Germany has a ban on HVO-like diesels, inspired by the German government and car industry, that go for all electrical cars, and don't seem to like any competition from clean diesels).

Regards from Amsterdam,

Marc.
 
O

oskarln

Messages
2
Location
Sweden
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Just browsing
I drive my 2009 T5.1 Cali with HVO for some years. It's not a bio diesel, but pure synthetic diesel, chemically reconstructed from bio waste. Producer is the Finnish company Neste, that have a refinery here in Rotterdam, The Netherlands.

Never had any issues with the motor or with leaking seals, although I was warned for leaking seals by Volkswagen. I do not mix HVO with old fashioned diesels. No need for that so far.

Driving is smooth, diesel consumption is about 5 to 8 percent less, depending on driving style.

Price is an issue: here in Holland about 16 to 18 eurocents higher than premium diesel. There are more and more gas stations with HVO in the Netherlands, though I have to drive an extra mile or ten to find one.

Communication with Neste is a bit non existing. They do not answer technical questions on their website, and the Dutch distributors EG Retail and Tamoil too do not reply on emails. Rather strange for an upcoming brand.

Abroad on hollidays (Germany, Italy, France) I use premium diesel from BP/Aral. (Germany has a ban on HVO-like diesels, inspired by the German government and car industry, that go for all electrical cars, and don't seem to like any competition from clean diesels).

Regards from Amsterdam,

Marc.
Super interesting to hear Marc. I been talking to others about this the last days it seems like there are no reason not to move over. We have plenty stations providing HVO100 in the area so I think we will go for that next time.
//Oskar
 
M

marchugo

Messages
340
Biodiesel, known as B100, is the first generation bio fuel, based on plants like rapeseed. It meets the standard EN14214 for biodiesel.

The newer 2nd generation is called Hydrotreated Vegetable Oil, known as HVO100. It is produced from raw materials such as residues (fat) and waste. HVO meets the standard EN15940 for paraffin fuels.

Then there is GTL (gas to liquid), made by Shell in Quatar from natural gas. The production needs huge amounts of electricity, and therefore is not too ecofriendly, but what comes out of the exhaust pipe is much more cleaner than the pure fossile diesel fumes.

All variants are used in trucks, cars and buses as an ecofriendlier alternative for fossile diesel.

Regards from Amnsterdam,

Marc.
 
johnyboy

johnyboy

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Messages
526
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Hampshire
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T5 SE 180
I have just been speaking to a chap in the UK running a T5 180 on HVO, and yes very glad that
@marchugo has stated the huge difference between the two "generations" of biodiesel. I am thinking of ordering a 200 litre barrel to try
 
jliungman

jliungman

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Messages
39
Location
Sweden
Vehicle
T5 SE 174
I drive my 2009 T5.1 Cali with HVO for some years. It's not a bio diesel, but pure synthetic diesel, chemically reconstructed from bio waste. Producer is the Finnish company Neste, that have a refinery here in Rotterdam, The Netherlands.

Never had any issues with the motor or with leaking seals, although I was warned for leaking seals by Volkswagen. I do not mix HVO with old fashioned diesels. No need for that so far.

Driving is smooth, diesel consumption is about 5 to 8 percent less, depending on driving style.

Price is an issue: here in Holland about 16 to 18 eurocents higher than premium diesel. There are more and more gas stations with HVO in the Netherlands, though I have to drive an extra mile or ten to find one.

Communication with Neste is a bit non existing. They do not answer technical questions on their website, and the Dutch distributors EG Retail and Tamoil too do not reply on emails. Rather strange for an upcoming brand.

Abroad on hollidays (Germany, Italy, France) I use premium diesel from BP/Aral. (Germany has a ban on HVO-like diesels, inspired by the German government and car industry, that go for all electrical cars, and don't seem to like any competition from clean diesels).

Regards from Amsterdam,

Marc.
Thanks for your input, Marc!
As an update, I too havs been using HVO for a few months now without issues. No way to know what it might do after several years, but I have yet to hear about any problems from other drivers. I will spend the winter in norway, where I doubt I will find HVO, so I may not be able to bring a new update in a while.
(As an aside: I think the auto industry needs to get its priorities straight and come up with solutions, rather than spread rumours and doubt about eco-friendly options to fossil fuels.)
 

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