Solar panel advice

[GP]

Solar isnt really justified on Economics its a good Gadget which makes life easier. In my case the fridge stays on 24/7 and the van never goes on hook up at home with the Victron maintaining my batteries to perfection. No possibility to forget to take it off or put it on. My wife takes the van for horse events she runs where there is no hookup and has a requirement to run a second freezer.
Still doesnt make economic sense but but what does on a Cali Ocean.

You mention the Victron. Does that have any technical advantage over a standard halfords battery charger. Also can you charge all the batteries from one poinyt or do you charge them separately?

 

[Legin]

You mention the Victron. Does that have any technical advantage over a standard halfords battery charger. Also can you charge all the batteries from one poinyt or do you charge them separately?

The Victron works more like a smart charger which offers the advantage to condition the battery charging rate. Also you can program it to deliver the maximum float voltage you want. It automatically charges the house batteries that its connected to, so on an ocean the two batteries. It doesnt charge the engine battery although alternatives now exist that can also do this.

 

[campandfly]

For us the solar has proved invaluable.

We recently spent 10 nights away.

5 nights wild bushcamping with little or no movement of the vehicle to charge batteries.
5 nights in campsites with no need of power.

From an economic point of view we saved on the following

No need to pack up and drive to either charge batteries or travel to a campsite for hookup.
So saving on fuel and camping fees. Camping was approx 20+ euros a night and extra if you wanted hookup.
Fuel would have been quite a lot as we were well off the beaten track and so would have to travel to and from our sporting location each day.

We also saved on Roaming Data usage and phone if you were searching for the nearest suitable sites.
Not many campsites in our area and because lockdown had just finished the sites we did find were packed out. (need to book)
Absolute minimum saved was 150euros not including wear and tear on the Cali on bush tracks.

It was hot so we were running our fridge and making Ice, charging instruments, phones laptops lights etc.

But most of all and this was a huge plus and made our trip was

FREEDOM

To pull up anywhere and stay and run all our electrical stuff.
No need to move if we did not want to, which was often.
To stay with our friends in the bush who also were using Solar.
Freedom to not have to be finding sites checking in and out at times inconvenient to us.

Also when we did have to stay in Campsites we had more choice of sites as we did not need power.
This enabled us to stay on all occasions on adjoining sites to our friends who again had solar.


I have to admit to one schoolboy error. On one day I thought my solar had failed as my batteries were not charging as usual despite full sun.
My Mistake was:----- In the morning I had erected a windsock on the van. Then I noticed in the afternoon the sun had moved around and the windsock was casting a partial shadow on my panel.
Easily fixed will not do that again.

The whole trip would have been completely different if we had to worry about charging batteries.

So in conclusion it saved us quite a bit of money just on this one trip alone but most of all FREEDOM you have to put your own value on that. Oh and maybe in someway we were reducing our environmental impact.

 

[johna]

campandfly - what capacity panel(s) do you have, please?

 

[campandfly]

campandfly - what capacity panel(s) do you have, please?

1 x 100watt detachable.

 

[GP]

For us the solar has proved invaluable.

We recently spent 10 nights away.

5 nights wild bushcamping with little or no movement of the vehicle to charge batteries.
5 nights in campsites with no need of power.

From an economic point of view we saved on the following

No need to pack up and drive to either charge batteries or travel to a campsite for hookup.
So saving on fuel and camping fees. Camping was approx 20+ euros a night and extra if you wanted hookup.
Fuel would have been quite a lot as we were well off the beaten track and so would have to travel to and from our sporting location each day.

We also saved on Roaming Data usage and phone if you were searching for the nearest suitable sites.
Not many campsites in our area and because lockdown had just finished the sites we did find were packed out. (need to book)
Absolute minimum saved was 150euros not including wear and tear on the Cali on bush tracks.

It was hot so we were running our fridge and making Ice, charging instruments, phones laptops lights etc.

But most of all and this was a huge plus and made our trip was

FREEDOM

To pull up anywhere and stay and run all our electrical stuff.
No need to move if we did not want to, which was often.
To stay with our friends in the bush who also were using Solar.
Freedom to not have to be finding sites checking in and out at times inconvenient to us.

Also when we did have to stay in Campsites we had more choice of sites as we did not need power.
This enabled us to stay on all occasions on adjoining sites to our friends who again had solar.


I have to admit to one schoolboy error. On one day I thought my solar had failed as my batteries were not charging as usual despite full sun.
My Mistake was:----- In the morning I had erected a windsock on the van. Then I noticed in the afternoon the sun had moved around and the windsock was casting a partial shadow on my panel.
Easily fixed will not do that again.

The whole trip would have been completely different if we had to worry about charging batteries.

So in conclusion it saved us quite a bit of money just on this one trip alone but most of all FREEDOM you have to put your own value on that. Oh and maybe in someway we were reducing our environmental impact.

You sound extremely happy with your set up. So you have a 100W detachable solar panel. Does it have a charger as part of the solar panel or do you have a permanent charger/controller in the van? Also do you have a simple plug that you connect the panel to when you want to use it since I assume you don't try and connect to the battery every time. Also is the panel easy to store when you are not using it? I would be really interested to know the actual system/products you are using since it seems to fit your requirements perfectly. I hope that is not too many questions!

 

[soulstyledevon]

I have a question please.

Most of you seem to have the app which states the level of energy you are producing.

With the van parked in the right position, what angle do the solar panels produce the most power.
With the roof up or down...?
@campandfly probably not one for you

 

[Roger Donoghue]

With the roof up.

You want the sun perpendicular to the panel - i.e. pointing straight at it - not glancing across it.

In an ideal world, you raise the roof with the sun behind you and it passes over from East to West through the day. This is why flat is not optimal as it's only perpendicular to the panel at midday, IF, you are parked under it - unlikely! Angle it towards the sun and then you get the best compromise - as it passes through it's arc it spends most of it's time in the ideal position.

In many tests I've done you gain a LOT with the roof up. Example - 100W panel producing 4 amps flat will produce over 5 amps angled up. This varies of course throughout the day and has less effect when the sun is at it's highest.

Domestic panels are not on roofs just for convenience. The angle is often ideal. The same reason panel arrays on flat roofs are fitted on brackets, at an angle.

My uncle has a solar powered house in Arizona,with two panel arrays that track the sun. In autumn, and then again in spring, you undo a bolt and alter the angle to suit the season (raised higher for winter when the sun is lower).

 

[campandfly]

I have a Victron Smart solar with Bluetooth APP which I can watch and see what is happening at a glance.
If need be my panel can disconnect from the roof and be placed to maximise efficiency.
Sometimes you have to park in a particular direction on campsites or in the bush that are not efficient that is why I made mine detachable.

The panel is permanently connected to the leisure batteries via the Victron Smartsolar controller.
Edited
@GP The Panel stays connected on the roof so no need to store it. I have quick connectors so I can move it around if need be. With this lovely weather lately its rare that I have had to move it.

 

[kave]

We usually park so that we get morning sun directly on the angled roof. Coolbox and other appliances have been taking energy from the batteries over night so I think that is the best way.

 

[Aubisque]

Still doesnt make economic sense but but what does on a Cali Ocean.

Indeed, when you think of it like that. For the price, if solar was an option you could spec from new, I suspect most people would go for it. 'Automatic battery charging when camped avoiding the need for hook-up'.

 

[Nolan]

I'm seriously considering it for my Beach as I'd like the option of meandering through France with fridge and gadget charging without worrying about the state of my leisure battery (also the Beach gives no indication of battery health).

Thinking single panel from Solar Camper Solutions with Victron, or do people find the MPPT adequate? I guess the advance of the Victron is no visible panel for kids to fiddle with or to get knocked.

We camped this weekend and my friends children managed to flatten the battery on their car by leaving multiple phones plugged in and charging overnight, appreciate that won't happen in Beach but I'd be irritated if my sausages stopped cooling

 

[clarinetbcn]

...also the Beach gives no indication of battery health.

I use this. Unplug when not in use, because it still uses juice, even with no devices connected. I think there are models with a shut off switch.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01M9IKYVH/

 

[clarinetbcn]

I use this. Unplug when not in use, because it still uses juice, even with no devices connected. I think there are models with a shut off switch.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01M9IKYVH/

 

[Roger Donoghue]

I'm seriously considering it for my Beach as I'd like the option of meandering through France with fridge and gadget charging without worrying about the state of my leisure battery (also the Beach gives no indication of battery health).

Thinking single panel from Solar Camper Solutions with Victron, or do people find the MPPT adequate? I guess the advance of the Victron is no visible panel for kids to fiddle with or to get knocked.

We camped this weekend and my friends children managed to flatten the battery on their car by leaving multiple phones plugged in and charging overnight, appreciate that won't happen in Beach but I'd be irritated if my sausages stopped cooling

The Victron works well in the Beach as you can hide it away in the jack compartment. The other option is the basic LCD MPPT and add the remote display and flush mount it in the rear plastic - but this involves cutting a BIG hole.

It's an easy job, just requires a hole cutter. Takes me a minute.

With any of the MPPT chargers you can plug dedicated 12v outlets into the "load" terminals on the charger - i.e.a. double USB socket, or an extra cig socket. Why do this? Because the MPPT charger will turn the output off if the battery drops below a certain voltage - stops your young ones killing it overnight - it protects the battery.

 

[kp64zl]

I have Victron in my Beach. Bluetooth works well to show state of charge etc via phone.

keeps fridge going + gadgets charged

 

[Nolan]

The Victron works well in the Beach as you can hide it away in the jack compartment. The other option is the basic LCD MPPT and add the remote display and flush mount it in the rear plastic - but this involves cutting a BIG hole.

It's an easy job, just requires a hole cutter. Takes me a minute.

With any of the MPPT chargers you can plug dedicated 12v outlets into the "load" terminals on the charger - i.e.a. double USB socket, or an extra cig socket. Why do this? Because the MPPT charger will turn the output off if the battery drops below a certain voltage - stops your young ones killing it overnight - it protects the battery.

View attachment 63175

Thanks Roger, when you say "With any of the MPPT chargers you can plug dedicated 12v outlets into the load terminals on the charger" does this include the Victron?

 

[Roger Donoghue]

It does indeed

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

Can the dangling cable be avoided? I guess it would mean drilling the roof and routing the cable inside the bellows at the rear.
I also wondered whether there is a solution available that enabled free standing solar panels to be plugged in to the van whilst on site. i.e. All internal wiring, control panel, etc in place with a socket adjacent to the shower socket.

 

[Roger Donoghue]

You could indeed. I've installed panels on Cali's and drilling the roof. The neatest way is to go inside and drill through the roof from the inside out with a small drill bit - obviously after measuring several times! Then drill the correct sized hole back through from the outside. Doing this means you can accuratly line the hole up exactly next to the inside edge of the tenting. I go central, or, with the bolt on panel, I'd go down one corner. Starting with a very small drill bit means if you make a mistake, at least you can fill the hole! (never happened to me).

Obviously most people don't want to drill their roof, but, it's easy to do and easy to seal.

As for a free standing solution - I've avoided it for a few reasons.

1) You want a framed panel - and they are heavy
2) Whatever panel you have, it will be big and annoying inside the van
3) Having a panel outside means you have to put it away when not there, and consequently, often forget to put it back later. I tried it years ago and found it a nuisance. It works for some people.
4) having a panel on the roof means it has near optimal alignment with the sun with no need to move it all.

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

You could indeed. I've installed panels on Cali's and drilling the roof. The neatest way is to go inside and drill through the roof from the inside out with a small drill bit - obviously after measuring several times! Then drill the correct sized hole back through from the outside. Doing this means you can accuratly line the hole up exactly next to the inside edge of the tenting. I go central, or, with the bolt on panel, I'd go down one corner. Starting with a very small drill bit means if you make a mistake, at least you can fill the hole! (never happened to me).

Obviously most people don't want to drill their roof, but, it's easy to do and easy to seal.

As for a free standing solution - I've avoided it for a few reasons.

1) You want a framed panel - and they are heavy
2) Whatever panel you have, it will be big and annoying inside the van
3) Having a panel outside means you have to put it away when not there, and consequently, often forget to put it back later. I tried it years ago and found it a nuisance. It works for some people.
4) having a panel on the roof means it has near optimal alignment with the sun with no need to move it all.

Thanks Roger, I’ve not taken delivery of my California yet but when I do will most likely want solar panels fitted. How do I proceed with you regarding quotations etc?

 

[Roger Donoghue]

Drop me an email via my site, or below, in my sig, and we can talk through the options.

 

[sidepod]

Ok so I’m firmly on the side of “no point”

I can manage four days with fridge (ambient depending obvs)

I couldn’t find any cold hard facts in this post about it’s capability.

let’s assume I have discharged my leisure battery to less than the required level to run the fridge.

Assume average UK weather and for fun, let’s assume I’ve been pitched by a CCC Hi viz muppet , so no choice on orientation.

Given that to charge a battery you need more than 12v etc.......

Will I be able to plug in the solar and carry on as before. ?

 

[WelshGas]

Ok so I’m firmly on the side of “no point”

I can manage four days with fridge (ambient depending obvs)

I couldn’t find any cold hard facts in this post about it’s capability.

let’s assume I have discharged my leisure battery to less than the required level to run the fridge.

Assume average UK weather and for fun, let’s assume I’ve been pitched by a CCC Hi viz muppet , so no choice on orientation.

Given that to charge a battery you need more than 12v etc.......

Will I be able to plug in the solar and carry on as before. ?

Well I've been running the fridge for the past 3 months , on the drive with occasional short trips and 1 longer trip to N Devon with 3 days on Hookup. By lunchtime each day the Leisure Batteries are at 100% and when the sun goes down and the Panel is in shade the voltage is 12.7, so I'm happy that the Leisure Batteries are topped up each day with UK weather.
California is parked facing N, building on the E side so panel in shade until 9am and trees to the W so dappled sunlight from 3pm. Works for me.

In winter panel maintains Batteries at 100%, no fridge running last winter, and no need to top up with Mains.

 

[Roger Donoghue]

I'm not totally sure I understand. When you say you are " firmly on the side of “no point”. Do you mean you firmly believe there is no point to solar? Also, when you say "plug in", the reality is it is always plugged in, unless you are getting a panel out of the van and then plugging it in.

Assuming the solar was switched off, and you indeed "plugged it in" then a 100w panel would immediately start charging your battery at up to 5.4 Amps (tested). The amount depends on the sun and the panel ordination, but even flat, you'll get around 5A on a sunny day. Your battery would immediately start charging at 5A. Your fridge would draw around 4A, so it would fire up pretty much straight away and take it's 4A , leaving 1A to slowly charge the battery. Often when I install a panel, the moment I plug in the solar , I hear the fridge rumb!e to life.

Each time the fridge thermostat switches it off, the full 5A goes to battery charging, so it creeps up quite fast.

Obviously regular installations are on all the time, so you don't end up like this. In the morning the fridge is still going and the battery is not flat ,so the solar has less work to do and the battery is full much quicker.

A note on orientation. No matter which way your pitch is facing, you have the choice which way round to park (drive or reverse in) so you can always put the sun behind or to the side of you.

I tested my 100w panels this week in perfect clear sky sun at around 11am and got a steady 5.4 Amps with an MPPT charger (panel laying flat on the floor). It says max 6A on the back but you always lose some voltage (and therefore Amps) to heat with any panels. That's why the are 20v panels, to allow a drop in voltage when hot, so they are still above 15v, so they can charger a "12v" battery , which needs up to and over 14.4 v to charge.

I could have angled them perpendicular to the sun but I wanted a test figure that I could rely on as reliable figure I could tell customers to expect from each panel in average circumstances.