Tesla more valuable than Volkswagen

[Calimili]

Hmmm...

View attachment 55222

That‘s for Cybertrucks, no issue there...

 

[soulstyledevon]

That‘s for Cybertrucks, no issue there...

I thought perhaps Tesla were releasing their electric powered boats to the market...

 

[Calimili]

I thought perhaps Tesla were releasing their electric powered boats to the market...

That wouldn't be a bad idea, as it seems the word "pollution" is always associated with "cars".
Why are planes and ships never mentioned? Ships pollutes enormously, and there would be plenty of scope there to develop greener alternatives, since weight and size it's not a major issue as it is in cars...

 

[Ch1pbutty]

That wouldn't be a bad idea, as it seems the word "pollution" is always associated with "cars".
Why are planes and ships never mentioned? Ships pollutes enormously, and there would be plenty of scope there to develop greener alternatives, since weight and size it's not a major issue as it is in cars...

Ships are already green!

Media Centre

www.imo.org

 

[Calimili]

Ships are already green!

Media Centre

www.imo.org

"From 1 January 2020, the limit for sulphur in fuel oil used on board ships operating outside designated emission control areas "
that means only in ports. Outside ports they pollute like crazy

 

[Ch1pbutty]

"From 1 January 2020, the limit for sulphur in fuel oil used on board ships operating outside designated emission control areas "
that means only in ports. Outside ports they pollute like crazy

Outside designated emission control areas, sulphur limit must be less than 0.5% (limit before 01 Jan 2020 was 3.5%). The limit within ECA remains unchanged at 0.1%.

 

[SailSki]

I work in this industry- a lot of investment has been made in recent years and ships now have to have scrubbers to clean their emissions or run on cleaner fuel

 

[johnyboy]

I wonder how long it will be before Tesla will stop supporting software updates cars with older operating systems.

It has started already in some ways - unless you have the latest hardware you do not get all of the features of the recent software

 

[Calimili]

And now more valuable than Toyota!!
Tesla is now the world biggest car manufacturer by market capitalization.

Not a bad year for Elon, got another 13Bn net worth, put people in Space ferrying them to the ISS...

 

[Trevor Brown]

People complain about the cost of a new engine if something significant goes wrong but with an electrical vehicle not only do you have the cost of mechanical repairs but a 100% guarantee that in the not too distant future the cost of a replacement battery pack. That's going to impact 2nd hand prices significantly for all 2nd hand EV's.

I made enquiries a couple of years ago from the local BMW dealer about the purchase of a new i3.
I quizzed him fairly closely on various aspects, one of which was battery life / replacement. In relation to me asking about cost of replacement, his first answer was "why would you ever want to keep it that long?" I pointed out that some customers do .... I also added that if costs were prohibitive it would have a knock on effect on EV residual values .... That seemed to be beyond his smart, smarmy and superficial ability to comprehend .... Anyway, in the end of the day I was advised by him that there are 4 batteries, each costing £1,000, and when further pressed, having a labour cost per battery of a further £1,000! So in total £8,000 potential cost for an 8 year old car, likely hardly even worth more than £5,000 ....

 

[willwander]

And now more valuable than Toyota!!
Tesla is now the world biggest car manufacturer by market capitalization.

Not a bad year for Elon, got another 13Bn net worth, put people in Space ferrying them to the ISS...

Share price now $1119, up 392% in 12 months

Tesla overtakes Toyota to become world's most valuable carmaker

Shares in the electric carmaker have surged, giving it a market value of $209bn.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Big Ron]

Reasonable questions about longevity of batteries potentially impacting value.
This can be addressed in one of 3 ways?
- Personal ownership is the most questionable....residuals have been high, hope that continues and sell before any future(If any?) bad news impacting residuals?
- Company ownership; There are benefits in buying by setting off price against Corporation Tax. This would go some/long way to offsetting any residual impacts.
- Personal/CompanyLease; just don’t own it at all if you’re worried about residuals
In general people have them for company cars coz they’re thought to be cool and their great position on benefit in kind.

My business has a number of Tesla’s, all leased. Too much energy spent at both ends of the spectrum depending on whether you’re a zealot early adopter or a pessimistic Luddite....reality is they’re in the middle...pretty decent modern vehicles with zero/low taxation without having great build quality nor materials .
Range is not generally an issue in the latest Long Range models.
They’re decent enough, I’ve got one. Would get another for sure but I don’t buy into the zealous hype.

 

[Borris]

Reasonable questions about longevity of batteries potentially impacting value.
This can be addressed in one of 3 ways?
- Personal ownership is the most questionable....residuals have been high, hope that continues and sell before any future(If any?) bad news impacting residuals?
- Company ownership; There are benefits in buying by setting off price against Corporation Tax. This would go some/long way to offsetting any residual impacts.
- Personal/CompanyLease; just don’t own it at all if you’re worried about residuals
In general people have them for company cars coz they’re thought to be cool and their great position on benefit in kind.

My business has a number of Tesla’s, all leased. Too much energy spent at both ends of the spectrum depending on whether you’re a zealot early adopter or a pessimistic Luddite....reality is they’re in the middle...pretty decent modern vehicles with zero/low taxation without having great build quality nor materials .
Range is not generally an issue in the latest Long Range models.
They’re decent enough, I’ve got one. Would get another for sure but I don’t buy into the zealous hype.

For once an honest assessment.

 

[Camperfamily]

I made enquiries a couple of years ago from the local BMW dealer about the purchase of a new i3.
I quizzed him fairly closely on various aspects, one of which was battery life / replacement. In relation to me asking about cost of replacement, his first answer was "why would you ever want to keep it that long?" I pointed out that some customers do .... I also added that if costs were prohibitive it would have a knock on effect on EV residual values .... That seemed to be beyond his smart, smarmy and superficial ability to comprehend .... Anyway, in the end of the day I was advised by him that there are 4 batteries, each costing £1,000, and when further pressed, having a labour cost per battery of a further £1,000! So in total £8,000 potential cost for an 8 year old car, likely hardly even worth more than £5,000 ....

Similar concerns by me. But I loved the i3, so I leased it and gave the lease company the financial risk. I love it even more having now had it for 18 months. It’s a close one between whether I enjoy the Cali and i3 or more, but in very different ways obviously. Cali clearly pips it on fun for the family, but the i3 is a dream to drive - totally effortless.

 

[Velma's Dad]

Reasonable questions about longevity of batteries potentially impacting value.
This can be addressed in one of 3 ways?
- Personal ownership is the most questionable....residuals have been high, hope that continues and sell before any future(If any?) bad news impacting residuals?
- Company ownership; There are benefits in buying by setting off price against Corporation Tax. This would go some/long way to offsetting any residual impacts.
- Personal/CompanyLease; just don’t own it at all if you’re worried about residuals
In general people have them for company cars coz they’re thought to be cool and their great position on benefit in kind.

My business has a number of Tesla’s, all leased. Too much energy spent at both ends of the spectrum depending on whether you’re a zealot early adopter or a pessimistic Luddite....reality is they’re in the middle...pretty decent modern vehicles with zero/low taxation without having great build quality nor materials .
Range is not generally an issue in the latest Long Range models.
They’re decent enough, I’ve got one. Would get another for sure but I don’t buy into the zealous hype.

I assume the future with EVs will mainly be contract/leasing (or whatever new finance scheme gets dreamt up), so no fussing over residuals, uncertainties over battery replacements, software updates, etc etc. There presumably won't be enough money to be made from annual servicing of an EV to support a dealer network. Just order your car online from the manufacturer, pay the monthly fees and drive?

The five year old cars (or whatever) will get their old batteries recycled into domestic or locality battery packs, particularly in developing countries to exploit solar generation.

 

[Moakesy]

The supplier of Tesla batteries has already announced their ‘million mile battery’ development Here, which would make a significant impact to the overall cost of ownership.

Tesla are also rumoured to be holding a ‘battery day’ announcement. If the rumours are to be believed, then greater range and sub 10 minute charging may appear.

I do stress these are only rumours though, but the share price may not have peaked yet.

 

[Trevor Brown]

Similar concerns by me. But I loved the i3, so I leased it and gave the lease company the financial risk. I love it even more having now had it for 18 months. It’s a close one between whether I enjoy the Cali and i3 or more, but in very different ways obviously. Cali clearly pips it on fun for the family, but the i3 is a dream to drive - totally effortless.

I bought one too!
But decided to buy second hand and at least the depreciation would be less!
And I also love it, it is simply a lovely drive.

 

[Camperfamily]

I assume the future with EVs will mainly be contract/leasing (or whatever new finance scheme gets dreamt up), so no fussing over residuals, uncertainties over battery replacements, software updates, etc etc. There presumably won't be enough money to be made from annual servicing of an EV to support a dealer network. Just order your car online from the manufacturer, pay the monthly fees and drive?

The five year old cars (or whatever) will get their old batteries recycled into domestic or locality battery packs, particularly in developing countries to exploit solar generation.

I think the future will involve minimal personal ownership of vehicles. Instead, hire vehicles on demand will become the norm.

Once we have driverless cars, what’s the need to own a vehicle? Simply hail a driverless vehicle to match your requirements for the duration needed - city hopper/ family transport/ delivery van. Then hop out and it drives to its next job, or (automated) refuelling/ service station. It might seem futuristic, but if you look at the way ownership trends are changing and the pace of technological advancement, then I don’t think it’s too outlandish to think it could be here in the next X years.

If you consider the number of human error vehicle accidents, I would support banning/ restricting human controlled cars on public roads once the technology safely supports autonomous vehicles (which will be dependent to a significant extent on human operated vehicles still on the roads).

Elevators are a good analogy to this shift - originally human operated with levers, now all computer driven. I, for one, would be nervous getting into a human operated elevators nowadays. Yet people were originally very nervous about removing human operators from elevators as that was all they were used to and they trusted their experienced elevator operator over a ‘computer’. I appreciate that elevators in closed shafts are massively less complicated, with massively fewer external factors, than autonomous vehicles, but the concept and human reaction to adopting new technology is similar.

There will of course be a proportion of the population keen to own and drive their own vehicles, but I think this will increasingly become a minority.

Just my views on the subject and, almost certainly, the future on this topic will not pan out like I imagine it, or any other one person imagines it (save for Elon Musk possibly, who has some pioneering visions and massive capital resources to support them becoming reality).

 

[2haw]

A friend of mine bought a Tesla 3 a few weeks back after having BMWs for years.. After a few days he realised the build quality was so bad that he took back within the 7 day return period.

 

[Big Ron]

A friend of mine bought a Tesla 3 a few weeks back after having BMWs for years.. After a few days he realised the build quality was so bad that he took back within the 7 day return period.

Yes, the build quality of Tesla is nowhere near BMW, Skoda, Audi, Volvo, Toyota etc.. that is true. But it’s not much different to most other US cars, their build quality/materials have traditionally been poorer. (Can’t speak for last 5/6 years as I haven’t worked there for a while.)

 

[Velma's Dad]

I think the future will involve minimal personal ownership of vehicles. Instead, hire vehicles on demand will become the norm.

Once we have driverless cars, what’s the need to own a vehicle? Simply hail a driverless vehicle to match your requirements for the duration needed - city hopper/ family transport/ delivery van. Then hop out and it drives to its next job, or (automated) refuelling/ service station. It might seem futuristic, but if you look at the way ownership trends are changing and the pace of technological advancement, then I don’t think it’s too outlandish to think it could be here in the next X years.

If you consider the number of human error vehicle accidents, I would support banning/ restricting fully human driven cars on public roads once the technology supports autonomous vehicles. The analogy being elevators - originally human operated with levers, now all computer driven. I, for one, would be nervous getting into a human operated elevators nowadays. I appreciate that elevators in closed shafts are massively less complicated, with massively fewer external factors, than autonomous vehicles, but the concept and human reaction to adopting new technology is similar.

There will of course be a proportion of the population keen to own and drive their own vehicles, but I think this will increasingly become a minority.

Just my views on the subject and, almost certainly, the future on this topic will not pan out like I imagine it, or any other one person imagines it (save for Elon Musk possibly, who has some pioneering visions and massive capital resources to support them becoming reality).

Leaving aside the question of when fully autonomous vehicles become a reality on "real" roads - I think the most optimistic predictions for that are being dialled back recently - the notion of a complete banning of non-autonomous vehicles at some point is I think unrealistic, for social/cultural rather than technological reasons.

There will certainly be a gradually shrinking "rump" of non-autonomous vehicles and people who'll want to drive them as day to day transport. But there are an estimated 1.2 million historic vehicles (ie 30+ years old) registered in the UK and I think that represents a hugely important lobby.

I am biased here as I have a couple of classics but according to a Federation of British Historic Vehicles Clubs study, more than 40% of the public think it's important for these vehicles to remain in use on the roads. They do low mileages although that is increasing rapidly - avg 2,200 miles a year, a doubling in five years which is remarkable. Ownership and interest is forecast to accelerate (ha!) as internal combustion power becomes more and more of a novelty and the heritage "industry" in the widest sense continues to gain pace.

So, don't underestimate the power of nostalgia, or of the "right to drive" in many cultures (try putting speed limits on the autobahn in Germany and see how you get on).

 

[Big Ron]

Leaving aside the question of when fully autonomous vehicles become a reality on "real" roads - I think the most optimistic predictions for that are being dialled back recently - the notion of a complete banning of non-autonomous vehicles at some point is I think unrealistic, for social/cultural rather than technological reasons.

There will certainly be a gradually shrinking "rump" of non-autonomous vehicles and people who'll want to drive them as day to day transport. But there are an estimated 1.2 million historic vehicles (ie 30+ years old) registered in the UK and I think that represents a hugely important lobby.

I am biased here as I have a couple of classics but according to a Federation of British Historic Vehicles Clubs study, more than 40% of the public think it's important for these vehicles to remain in use on the roads. They do low mileages although that is increasing rapidly - avg 2,200 miles a year, a doubling in five years which is remarkable. Ownership and interest is forecast to accelerate (ha!) as internal combustion power becomes more and more of a novelty and the heritage "industry" in the widest sense continues to gain pace.

So, don't underestimate the power of nostalgia, or of the "right to drive" in many cultures (try putting speed limits on the autobahn in Germany and see how you get on).

Nostalgia Velma’s Dad, yeah, not what it used to be though is it?

 

[Velma's Dad]

Nostalgia Velma’s Dad, yeah, not what it used to be though is it?

Nah, nostalgia is rubbish these days. I know who I blame for that, but I can't say or we'll end up in t'Three Cocks.

 

[Sunstoner]

The whole self driving car thing scares the pants off me. I love driving. I'll often grab the keys and head off somewhere simply for a mooch about along random country roads. A chance to listen to some favourite or new 'choons' without the kids dominating the airwaves or the wife to tell me to 'turn it down'. Its a genuine pleasure and one that wont be experienced by generations to come. 'You actually choose to drive that manually? like in the olden days!?'

I suppose the thought of tapping your watch or sending a 'Pick me up' message to your car from your phone after having a skinful at the Kings head is a boon. There'll be no need for people to keep cars at work at all. 1 car could run your household to work and any other destination required. it could do the click and collect on its own too. Think this is medium term. Long term as mentioned above is almost zero car ownership with a kind of 'cars on demand service' . Hate the idea but it WILL happen. Perhaps by then we'll have our very own flying cars?

 

[Amarillo]

There will certainly be a gradually shrinking "rump" of non-autonomous vehicles and people who'll want to drive them as day to day transport. But there are an estimated 1.2 million historic vehicles (ie 30+ years old) registered in the UK and I think that represents a hugely important lobby.

You might end up with a diminishing number of roads where you can self-drive. I expect motorways would be the first roads to switch to autonomous only.