Towing with a 150

[Legin]

Ok. I have been reading the debates on which engine etc to get in my ocean hopefully. I rather like the idea of going for the 150 DSG whereas I would normally just get the 204 4 motion but crickey the expensive just get really expensive. Used to high powered cars and motorbikes but the 50 mph speed limits mixed with retirement have got me to conclude causing the jam rather than being stuck in it is the way to go.

So my question isnt the usual which is best bla bla.

My question is who regularly tows with a 150 DSG and how does it cope with large loads. I tow two horses, a race car and a caravan ( not at the same time !) so traction in fields and lugging ability are on my list. Can it easily hold 65mph for instance on most motorway inclines.

Currently tow with an X3 and a shogun mostly which eats it. X3 is 310hp shogun 160hp

 

[18hunts]

Are you asking us to confirm you can break the speed limit?

 

[jts46]

Max towing is 60mph

 

[Legin]

Oh dear my first question and the self righteous respond. If you dont know then please leave it for those that do. For the record the towing speed limit is higher in parts of the EU than the UK. Got it.

 

[WelshGas]

Oh dear my first question and the self righteous respond. If you dont know then please leave it for those that do. For the record the towing speed limit is higher in parts of the EU than the UK. Got it.

Which countries?
According to this European Commission site, not in the EU.
http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/going_abroad/united_kingdom/speed_limits_en.htm

 

[Legin]

May have changed recently ( I havent checked) however I can confirm that in France as recently as 2014 on the autoroute the max speed towing with a train weight below 3500kg is 130kph so 81 mph unless its raining or downhill then its 90 /55 respectively. I have towed many miles at this speed in france over the last 20 + years.
Clearly the GTW makes this difficult to achieve if towing with a cali. I towed with a car and caravan so quite possible and with a boat also.

Search on line you will find it

Anyway back to the point has the 150 got room to spare or is is struggling to keep to 60 mph up moderate hills- thats better isnt it.

 

[WelshGas]

May have changed recently ( I havent checked) however I can confirm that in France as recently as 2014 on the autoroute the max speed towing with a train weight below 3500kg is 130kph so 81 mph unless its raining or downhill then its 90 /55 respectively. I have towed many miles at this speed in france over the last 20 + years.
Clearly the GTW makes this difficult to achieve if towing with a cali. I towed with a car and caravan so quite possible and with a boat also.

Search on line you will find it

Anyway back to the point has the 150 got room to spare or is is struggling to keep to 60 mph up moderate hills- thats better isnt it.

In answer to your question, Yes. But, being a heavy vehicle and FWD may struggle on grassy/wet slope to get traction. The 204, which can be prone to front wheel spin anyway, may not be any better. Tyre type would have a significant effect.
4Motion would negate this problem. Obviously all would depend on the actual towing weight.

 

[andyinluton]

Oh dear my first question and the self righteous respond. If you dont know then please leave it for those that do. For the record the towing speed limit is higher in parts of the EU than the UK. Got it.

Ive found the problem to be that the speed limits are too low when towing large trailers so the engine ends up turning too slowly in top gear to hit the peak torque. a 150 at 50mph will you be chugging along in top gear at about 1300rpm with every slight incline / touch of the pedal forcing a down change. A 204 will be slightly better as it has about 50% more low down torque.


So where in the EU are you going to be towing?

With the exception of Luxembourg (81mph) and Norway (68mph) quite a lot of Eu countries have lower limits than us - France at 56mph on the motorway is ridiculous with a cali when quite a lot of cars can tow pretty large vans at 81mph.

Denmark at 44mph looks to be avoided at all costs.

 

[Legin]

Thanks for the info. So would I be correct in thinking that a 2wd cali struggles with traction compared to what I would expect from a large car for instance ? And from what you say the power is enough. I certainly recall my mk7 GTD golf being very poor in the wet and much worse than i recall however most of my vehicles are 4wd these days.

 

[WelshGas]

Thanks for the info. So would I be correct in thinking that a 2wd cali struggles with traction compared to what I would expect from a large car for instance ? And from what you say the power is enough. I certainly recall my mk7 GTD golf being very poor in the wet and much worse than i recall however most of my vehicles are 4wd these days.

If the T6 was RWD probably OK, but a combination of a heavy vehicle, with extra rear towbar nose weight and trailer dead weight with FWD is not the ideal combination.

 

[Legin]

Ive found the problem to be that the speed limits are too low when towing large trailers so the engine ends up turning too slowly in top gear to hit the peak torque. a 150 at 50mph will you be chugging along in top gear at about 1300rpm with every slight incline / touch of the pedal forcing a down change. A 204 will be slightly better as it has about 50% more low down torque.


So where in the EU are you going to be towing?

With the exception of Luxembourg (81mph) and Norway (68mph) quite a lot of Eu countries have lower limits than us - France at 56mph on the motorway is ridiculous with a cali when quite a lot of cars can tow pretty large vans at 81mph.

Denmark at 44mph looks to be avoided at all costs.

Crickey that does seem a problem but i might be able to duck actually.
Outside the Uk in EU I intend to tow my motorbike which is unbraked about 350kg ish all in so I should be ok if the cali is lightly loaded which it will be just me on my own. In the uk a different ball game, cali fully loaded plus I want to tow over 2000kg and want to sit at the 60 mph uphill and downdale.

Do you think it will sit happily on the curve at 60 mph ?

 

[andyinluton]

Which countries?
According to this European Commission site, not in the EU.
http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/going_abroad/united_kingdom/speed_limits_en.htm

View attachment 35941

Thats for under 3.5 tnne combinations, a cali is over 3.5tnnes max train weight so lower limits apply.

 

[andyinluton]

Crickey that does seem a problem but i might be able to duck actually.
Outside the Uk in EU I intend to tow my motorbike which is unbraked about 350kg ish all in so I should be ok if the cali is lightly loaded which it will be just me on my own. In the uk a different ball game, cali fully loaded plus I want to tow over 2000kg and want to sit at the 60 mph uphill and downdale.

Do you think it will sit happily on the curve at 60 mph ?

NO you need to check the limits more carefully, the maximum train weight of a cali is more than 3500kg, Ive only checked France in detail but if you are towing anything at all irrespective of actual weight you are classed as over 3500kg.

Extract below from Caravan Club Site:

French Speed Limits (Last updated July 2010)
We have now received confirmation from the legal department of Automobile Club de France (ACF)

regarding speed limits in France which are kilometres per hour:

Motorway

Dual carriageway

Single carriageway

Vehicle towing a caravan/trailer where the vehicle has a gross train mass of under 3.5 tonne – or a motorhome that has a gross vehicle weight under 3.5 tonne*

130**

110**

90**

Motorhome which has a gross vehicle weight over 3.5 tonne*

110

100

80

Vehicle towing a caravan/trailer where the vehicle has a gross train mass over 3.5 tonne

90

90

80

*Motorhomes without a trailer, if the motorhome has a trailer then the speed limit will be based on the gross train mass in the same way as a car towing a caravan. Motorhomes travelling solo do not need to display any speed stickers.

** In adverse weather conditions or rain these limits reduce to 110/100/80
Gross vehicle weight – the weight of the vehicle when fully loaded with luggage, and passengers etc to

its maximum permitted capacity.

Gross train mass – This information can normally be found in your owner’s manual, on a plate or sticker fitted to the vehicle or by contacting the manufacturer of your car. In general terms the GTM is the gross vehicle weight of your car plus its towing limit. (There are exceptions to this rule, if in any doubt please contact your car manufacturer.)

Example

Honda CR-V 2.2 i-CTDI SE Grossvehicleweight - Towing limit - Gross train mass -

2160kg
2000kg
4160kg
If you tow any trailer/caravan behind this car you will need to tow at the lower speed limits regardless of how much your trailer weighs. If the Honda is towing a caravan weighing 1000kg (total weight of 3160kg) the lower speed limits will still apply, because the gross train mass is over 3500kg.

The French highway code stipulates that 80 and 90 stickers must be displayed by vehicles required to drive at the lower limits. The Legal Department of the Automobile Club de France said that UK registered caravans did need to display the stickers, the French Ministry of Transport changed their minds three times: the first reply said no, the second reply said yes and the third and final reply is below:

We have checked with several Government Departments and Ministries (Interior, Gendarmerie, Industry and Transport) and we have concluded that the stickers are not mandatory but the speed limits are applicable

 

[WelshGas]

Thats for under 3.5 tnne combinations, a cali is over 3.5tnnes max train weight so lower limits apply.

Agree. My mistake. As you say, lower limits due to the combined weight.

 

[Legin]

Thats for under 3.5 tnne combinations, a cali is over 3.5tnnes max train weight so lower limits apply.

Is that correct as I thought its the actual combined weight that counts not the MTPLM ?

 

[Legin]

Is that correct as I thought its the actual combined weight that counts not the MTPLM ?

Crossed post. Looks like I maybe stuffed then although in reality the gendarmes are probably unclear .

 

[andyinluton]

Awaits next post about fitting a motorcycle rack on the back of a Cali........


Ignore the comments re speeding, theresa few on here are in the doddery old fart brigade that don't believe its safe to do more than 50mph anywhere.

I nearly got lynched for mentioning that I'd done 95mph in a cali.

 

[Legin]

Awaits next post about fitting a motorcycle rack on the back of a Cali........


Ignore the comments re speeding, theresa few on here are in the doddery old fart brigade that don't believe its safe to do more than 50mph anywhere.

I nearly got lynched for mentioning that I'd done 95mph in a cali.

Not just me then thank goodness. Used to mount my motorcrosser on the back of the shogun and that was a lighter bike. My goodness it was all over the place so went to the trailer which I cant tell its there.
So legally drive unsafely at 70 with a bike on the rear or illegally drive safely with a trailer with the bike on it.
Nuts

 

[WelshGas]

Awaits next post about fitting a motorcycle rack on the back of a Cali........


Ignore the comments re speeding, theresa few on here are in the doddery old fart brigade that don't believe its safe to do more than 50mph anywhere.

I nearly got lynched for mentioning that I'd done 95mph in a cali.

Bit slow for the Autobahn.

 

[Erbster]

Wow, serious thread drift!

My 2p worth...

I have a boat which weighs about 1800kg, perhaps 1900kg laden and I tow it with my 150DSG Ocean. I have no trouble with power or maintaining speed, it just pops down a gear when needed. If I don’t want extra torque, I pop it into manual on the m/way to stop it changing gear. I have had no trouble on the slipways, though I’m cautious about venturing into algae or wet grass if camping. The stock tyres are absolutely useless on soft ground - I will buy all season tyres in due course.

By the way, though the Cali is perfectly capable of 80-90mph with the trailer, every time the Speedo creeps above 60, I imagine what my boat would look like after it has rolled over a few times down the motorway...


https://caliventures364847572.wordpress.com/

 

[cbdubs]

My mate had a T5 174 fwd and used to tow a laden horsebox. It would struggle a bit on wet grass or up his steep drive due to loss of traction. He now has a 204 DSG 4 motion and it would appear to be able to tow anything anywhere. As well as the horse box, its towed a loaded car trailer - no issues towing either and sticking to the speed limit is still not that easy!!

 

[Legin]

Thanks for the feedback. It does seem like i may end up coughing for the 4 motion as the 2wd traction is not descibed as anything special by anyone so far. I really detest the spinning wheel issues and it does need to tow a horse trailer on wet grass. Damn another £6k

 

[cbdubs]

Yeah, sorry although you won’t regret it. When you see others spinning away and you’re cruising passed you will feel a little smug! Even in the snow my mates van is superb and he lives out in the sticks which gets snowed in easily.

 

[cbdubs]

Oh get diff lock too which I think is an option.

 

[Legin]

Yesterday I managed to drive a caliO 150 dsg and then shortly after a kombi 4 motion 204. Firstly have to say liverpool vw went out their way to help me and may well get my order on the back of it. Good customer service is good for business.

I digress. The 150 gave me the following impressions firstly the power is enough for me and the power unit is refined, clearly it has huge low end torque but this only served to highlight a problem.
I was amazed that in bone dry 27c heat that the traction control kicked in quite heavily when pulling away albeit aggressively. I would say this is the lowest traction vehicle I have ever driven and cant imagine what inclement weather will bring. I realise no one has claimed to the contrary but it still surprised me nonetheless.

So there and then my new caliO went up £6k because I need the 4 motion for my uses. So i tried the Kombi and it was much quicker and more agile plus the power went where you would expect ie moving it forward.

In terms of chassis feel the 150 is rather wobbly whilst at the same time having rear suspension that rattles the shell on broken surfaces. The Kombi was cheating because it weighs c. 400 kg less that a cali 4 motion and it was on lowered suspension and rubber band tyres, it handles nicely but it still sounds like a rattly old van after only 6k miles. Is this just how it is ?

Im still undeterred but its a 4 motion I will buy and see how its goes from a suspension viewpoint, if its like the Kombi I can live with it as the handling was fine. However if the extra 400kg messes it up a lot then VB suspension is in its future as the feedback is it will yield the best result.
So my new CaliO just went up another £5k potentially.