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Van slammed on the brakes

WelshGas

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Welcome to the World of Autonomous Vehicles.

Better get used to it. Your vehicle might not have it but the one in front of you might.
 
soulstyledevon

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I’m starting to think things are going too far.
The ACC on Miss P’s Evoke is utter dog s**t. It plants the brake pedal to the floor if a car so much as indicates in the middle distance. It just makes progress stressful.
I would deffo draw the line at auto-braking, especially given that it appears a tad digital!!

ACC on the Volkswagen is utter dog s**t too.
An over complication & unnecessary expense to a California.
 
Stoneybroke

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It doesn't work at motorway speeds only below 19mph according to the literature.
It's a Thatcham approved safety system and passed lots more tests than your theory and now being added as a recognised safety feature for insurers.

So what happens when you need to brake suddenly, say for a child running out between cars do you hesitate in case a car runs into the back or you?

Isn't there two levels?
Front Assist above 20mph+, and City Braking below. Front Assist gives visual, then audible warnings, then brakes, but the lower speeds kicks in more quickly.

I've never had any issues so far.
 
Erbster

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My ACC has prevented a bump for me twice in the 17k miles I have done in my Ocean. On one occasion, in a residential road, a car abruptly braked and turned into a drive. They didn’t signal, and the ACC brakes heavily before I had reacted. Likely I was preoccupied on my way to work, my fault probably, but a collision was avoided. Second time was at motorway speed when a lorry pulled out in front of me and was a lot slower than I had anticipated. I find the ACC reassuring on long journeys, as it is another line of defence if I have a lapse of concentration. I find the ACC is much less accurate if there is any curve in the road. I don’t know if that was a factor in the OPs situation.


https://caliventures364847572.wordpress.com/
 
Loz

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My ACC has prevented a bump for me twice in the 17k miles I have done in my Ocean. On one occasion, in a residential road, a car abruptly braked and turned into a drive. They didn’t signal, and the ACC brakes heavily before I had reacted. Likely I was preoccupied on my way to work, my fault probably, but a collision was avoided. Second time was at motorway speed when a lorry pulled out in front of me and was a lot slower than I had anticipated. I find the ACC reassuring on long journeys, as it is another line of defence if I have a lapse of concentration. I find the ACC is much less accurate if there is any curve in the road. I don’t know if that was a factor in the OPs situation.


https://caliventures364847572.wordpress.com/
Not the ACC but the Front Assist..
 
soulstyledevon

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So reading through the posts here. ACC is a must have option, if you have the attention span of a goldfish or are not a very competent driver...
 
Loz

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I understood they were two modes of the same unit.


https://caliventures364847572.wordpress.com/
Yes but front assist is a safety feature and ACC is a convenience feature.

AEB (City Braking) is alway on (if you have it) below 18mph
Front assist is always on at engine start if enabled.
ACC has to be enabled by the driver whilst driving.

see attached
 

Attachments

  • ACC.pdf
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  • AEB.pdf
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  • Front_Assist.pdf
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soulstyledevon

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WelshGas

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It is very civil of the vehicles that have ACC running that they slow down to make way for the vehicle that overtakes them on the Motorway and returns to their lane in front of them.

City Braking, Front Assist and ACC are all very good features IF every vehicle had them.
However, we are in a transition phase with only a relatively small % of vehicles having these features. As the OP stated in Post 1, he thought it could be dangerous for those following and that is the problem. The computer can react faster than a driver, but in a simplistic fashion, not taking everything into account. The vehicle that suddenly appears in front could be:
1. Slowing - Need to apply brakes
2. Transiting across the lane - no action required
3. Accelerating - no action required
In each of these scenarios, depending on the speed, Front Assist/City Braking or ACC would apply the brakes but it only needs to in Point 1.
 
Loz

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I object to sweeping statements without knowledge of how the systems work and how they are expected to react.
I had these features for 5 years on a previous vehicle before going for them again on the Cali and once you know how they are likely to react to the scenarios you adapt your driving.
Most issues are caused by a lack of space offered and taken by road users.
 
sidepod

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Similar to winter tyres in a way. You pull up sharpish but the car behind with his summer ditch-finders on, sails up your arse.
 
Velma's Dad

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Similar to winter tyres in a way. You pull up sharpish but the car behind with his summer ditch-finders on, sails up your arse.

Yep although not totally similar. When you're in a line of traffic you tend to half-watch the cars two or three ahead for braking cues. But if the bloke in front of you has his city-stop (or whatever) malfunction and slap the anchors on when the traffic ahead's still flowing smoothly, you just won't be expecting that.

That's how the rear-ending scam works - chummy and his mates suddenly stop in the middle of the road (often on a roundabout where you're probably busy watching your own mirrors etc), you pile on into him and they slap in a huge insurance claim for non-existent whiplash.
 
Loz

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That's how the rear-ending scam works - chummy and his mates suddenly stop in the middle of the road (often on a roundabout where you're probably busy watching your own mirrors etc), you pile on into him and they slap in a huge insurance claim for non-existent whiplash.
... and exactly why you need this system
 
WelshGas

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I object to sweeping statements without knowledge of how the systems work and how they are expected to react.
I had these features for 5 years on a previous vehicle before going for them again on the Cali and once you know how they are likely to react to the scenarios you adapt your driving.
Most issues are caused by a lack of space offered and taken by road users.
And that " Lack of space offered and taken by road users " is likely to continue well into the future until the % of vehicles with these features increases significantly. Hence the OP's assertion that he considered it dangerous for the vehicles behind.
Unfortunately these advanced computer systems are really designed for Autonomous vehicles when ALL such vehicles have the same abilities. In the meantime they have to be degraded to cope with vehicles that do not have such abilities and the fact that the fitted vehicle does not have the full Autonomous vehicle sensor package so the vehicle does not have Full situational awareness of the surrounding conditions and vehicles etc: and hence such episodes where they act for no obvious reason to the driver.
Unfortunately, many do not know how the system works or reacts and cannot themselves test if it is working so have to take it on trust.
eg: Standard Cruise Control maintains a steady speed ONLY. very easy to see if it is working or not. Speedometer and Cruise light together with Driver observation.
ACC, all the above BUT it also has the ability to slow/brake the vehicle. How do you test this Function will work correctly and timely? Is there a test function, No. Do you just depend on ACC not being available if this braking function is not working? In other words No News is Good News. There have been a number of Members stating that ACC Front Assist Braking being activated for No good reason. Do they now trust it to work when there is a good reason?

I personally think that these functions should be switchable, by the Driver, and also part of the Ignition On system whereby they are checked as functioning, both electronically and mechanical, and Warning Lights displayed if not. The Driver can then select which functions they want rather than the Total take it or not option given by manufacturers.
 
WelshGas

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... and exactly why you need this system
Won't help the car behind piling into you unless of course they have the same computer assist system, and please don't say they shouldn't have been that close. In the real world we all know we rarely leave sufficient room for Reaction and Action and Effect to take place safely especially at junction/roundabouts and in cities.
 
Loz

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I personally think that these functions should be switchable, by the Driver, and also part of the Ignition On system whereby they are checked as functioning, both electronically and mechanical, and Warning Lights displayed if not. The Driver can then select which functions they want rather than the Total take it or not option given by manufacturers.
You can disable Front assist and you can choose to not use ACC.
IMG_4181.jpg
 
Joker 1299

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And that " Lack of space offered and taken by road users " is likely to continue well into the future until the % of vehicles with these features increases significantly. Hence the OP's assertion that he considered it dangerous for the vehicles behind.
Unfortunately these advanced computer systems are really designed for Autonomous vehicles when ALL such vehicles have the same abilities. In the meantime they have to be degraded to cope with vehicles that do not have such abilities and the fact that the fitted vehicle does not have the full Autonomous vehicle sensor package so the vehicle does not have Full situational awareness of the surrounding conditions and vehicles etc: and hence such episodes where they act for no obvious reason to the driver.
Unfortunately, many do not know how the system works or reacts and cannot themselves test if it is working so have to take it on trust.
eg: Standard Cruise Control maintains a steady speed ONLY. very easy to see if it is working or not. Speedometer and Cruise light together with Driver observation.
ACC, all the above BUT it also has the ability to slow/brake the vehicle. How do you test this Function will work correctly and timely? Is there a test function, No. Do you just depend on ACC not being available if this braking function is not working? In other words No News is Good News. There have been a number of Members stating that ACC Front Assist Braking being activated for No good reason. Do they now trust it to work when there is a good reason?

I personally think that these functions should be switchable, by the Driver, and also part of the Ignition On system whereby they are checked as functioning, both electronically and mechanical, and Warning Lights displayed if not. The Driver can then select which functions they want rather than the Total take it or not option given by manufacturers.

What if your warning light malfunctions? ;)
 
S

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Have had two incidents of vehicle braking for no apparent reason but still completely trust the ACC system to the extent that I use on my daily commute.
It needed balls of steel initially but as Loz says, you get to know how far to trust it. As far as I'm concerned the ACC is one of the best features of my California.
 
VW Guru

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It doesn't work at motorway speeds only below 19mph according to the literature.
It's a Thatcham approved safety system and passed lots more tests than your theory and now being added as a recognised safety feature for insurers.

So what happens when you need to brake suddenly, say for a child running out between cars do you hesitate in case a car runs into the back or you?

Just as a side note these vehicles also have front assist which works from 30 to 250km/h and will also apply the brakes if deemed necessary
 
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