Van slammed on the brakes

[WelshGas]

What if your warning light malfunctions?

That can be said of any warning light, and there are more important ones relating to Brakes, Oil pressure/Temperature and the Engine in General, oh and don't forget the Air Bags.

 

[WelshGas]

You can disable Front assist and you can choose to not use ACC.
View attachment 39421

So when you choose NOT to use ACC then you can have Normal Cruise Control ie: Maintain a Selected Speed without any variation without the Drivers Input.

 

[Erbster]

Is it true to say that if one runs into the back of the car in front, one will be held to be at fault? That’s my understanding. I don’t think the difference between my reactions and the Cali reactions determines whether the car behind will hit me. If they do, they were too close. I like these features and see them as a useful backup if my concentration lapses; when using ACC, I am often “bullied” by other cars pulling into my safety distance, but I just shrug and drop back, if I can’t pull out. The ACC has only to prevent one collision and it’s paid for itself imo.


https://caliventures364847572.wordpress.com/

 

[WelshGas]

It doesn't work at motorway speeds only below 19mph according to the literature.
It's a Thatcham approved safety system and passed lots more tests than your theory and now being added as a recognised safety feature for insurers.

So what happens when you need to brake suddenly, say for a child running out between cars do you hesitate in case a car runs into the back or you?

That is a little disingenuous as an example. The OP was talking about an inappropriate activation of the system.
Anyway, can you confirm that such an activation of the system can discriminate between the sensor receiving a solid return from the parked cars and the change in signal by introducing a body between the vehicles. Obviously the driver would see the child as they appear in the gap and wouldn't wait until the child was in the centre of the vehicle lane. Can this system discriminate to the same degree. Uber Cars system didn't.

 

[WelshGas]

Is it true to say that if one runs into the back of the car in front, one will be held to be at fault? That’s my understanding. I don’t think the difference between my reactions and the Cali reactions determines whether the car behind will hit me. If they do, they were too close. I like these features and see them as a useful backup if my concentration lapses; when using ACC, I am often “bullied” by other cars pulling into my safety distance, but I just shrug and drop back, if I can’t pull out. The ACC has only to prevent one collision and it’s paid for itself imo.


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Not quit true. If you maliciously slam on the brakes for No reason then you can be charged with a traffic offence. The Driver behind can have an expectation that you will not do so eg: when changing lanes and at junctions etc:.
Yes, there is a presumption the driver behind is at fault, but not always.

eg: Stopped at a multi lane roundabout. Large gap appears. You proceed forward into your lane. Car behind follows. City Assist activates as a car in the central lane passes in it's own lane. Car behind hits you.
Who's fault? No need to slam on brakes as no vehicle in your lane causing an obstruction. I believe a good lawyer, if not the Police, would take you to task, not the driver of the vehicle behind.

 

[Loz]

Just as a side note these vehicles also have front assist which works from 30 to 250km/h and will also apply the brakes if deemed necessary

Yes, I mentioned that..

 

[sidepod]

And that " Lack of space offered and taken by road users " is likely to continue well into the future until the % of vehicles with these features increases significantly. Hence the OP's assertion that he considered it dangerous for the vehicles behind.
Unfortunately these advanced computer systems are really designed for Autonomous vehicles when ALL such vehicles have the same abilities. In the meantime they have to be degraded to cope with vehicles that do not have such abilities and the fact that the fitted vehicle does not have the full Autonomous vehicle sensor package so the vehicle does not have Full situational awareness of the surrounding conditions and vehicles etc: and hence such episodes where they act for no obvious reason to the driver.
Unfortunately, many do not know how the system works or reacts and cannot themselves test if it is working so have to take it on trust.
eg: Standard Cruise Control maintains a steady speed ONLY. very easy to see if it is working or not. Speedometer and Cruise light together with Driver observation.
ACC, all the above BUT it also has the ability to slow/brake the vehicle. How do you test this Function will work correctly and timely? Is there a test function, No. Do you just depend on ACC not being available if this braking function is not working? In other words No News is Good News. There have been a number of Members stating that ACC Front Assist Braking being activated for No good reason. Do they now trust it to work when there is a good reason?

I personally think that these functions should be switchable, by the Driver, and also part of the Ignition On system whereby they are checked as functioning, both electronically and mechanical, and Warning Lights displayed if not. The Driver can then select which functions they want rather than the Total take it or not option given by manufacturers.

Do you know how much Bosch charge for software development on new vehicles? Let me tell you it’s a BIG number!!! Imagine a BIG number then multiply it by your phone number, then add a bit on.
Additional functionality costs!!

 

[WelshGas]

Do you know how much Bosch charge for software development on new vehicles? Let me tell you it’s a BIG number!!! Imagine a BIG number then multiply it by your phone number, then add a bit on.
Additional functionality costs!!

I’m not quit sure what you are getting at. I appreciate a lot of money is spent on software development aimed at developing an autonomous vehicle and I’m sure everything will work fantastically on that vehicle. But, we are not there yet. I’m sure it all works works seamlessly in the laboratory and on the test track and in the test areas, but it won’t be introduced in one go, but over a number of years and in the meantime they introduce elements of the technology gradually and I have my doubts if these introductions are really of benefit, not just to users but non users as well.
ACC might be of benefit to users, but is it of benefit to non users in the real world?
eg: on motorways, if possible, I pull out into the middle lane when passing a junction so that vehicles joining can drive the sliproad straight onto the inner lane. I’ve been in a vehicle with ACC which gave the driver the confidence to do nothing when passing a junction as the vehicle would slow, and as the HGV drew alongside and ahead caused the vehicle to violently brake almost to a stop to avoid a collision by allowing the HGV to pull ahead into the inner lane. Now, I agree both drivers were at fault. The HGV should know better and not elbow his way onto the motorway and my vehicle driver should have been fully alert and not depend on a driving function at the expense of common sense. Unfortunately that is the world we live in.
As mentioned above in Post 53 these functions “ are a useful addition if my concentration lapses “. However I believe the reverse can happen, concentration will lapse because of these perceived safety features. With the mix of vehicles and driver abilities on our roads at present that could be a recipe for disaster.
How many drivers will utilise ACC to drive faster than they should or are capable of doing so in poor visibility such as fog or heavy rain? Putting their trust in its capabilities at the expense of common sense .

Rant over.

 

[Whistler]

I’m not quit sure what you are getting at. I appreciate a lot of money is spent on software development aimed at developing an autonomous vehicle and I’m sure everything will work fantastically on that vehicle. But, we are not there yet. I’m sure it all works works seamlessly in the laboratory and on the test track and in the test areas, but it won’t be introduced in one go, but over a number of years and in the meantime they introduce elements of the technology gradually and I have my doubts if these introductions are really of benefit, not just to users but non users as well.
ACC might be of benefit to users, but is it of benefit to non users in the real world?
eg: on motorways, if possible, I pull out into the middle lane when passing a junction so that vehicles joining can drive the sliproad straight onto the inner lane. I’ve been in a vehicle with ACC which gave the driver the confidence to do nothing when passing a junction as the vehicle would slow, and as the HGV drew alongside and ahead caused the vehicle to violently brake almost to a stop to avoid a collision by allowing the HGV to pull ahead into the inner lane. Now, I agree both drivers were at fault. The HGV should know better and not elbow his way onto the motorway and my vehicle driver should have been fully alert and not depend on a driving function at the expense of common sense. Unfortunately that is the world we live in.
As mentioned above in Post 53 these functions “ are a useful addition if my concentration lapses “. However I believe the reverse can happen, concentration will lapse because of these perceived safety features. With the mix of vehicles and driver abilities on our roads at present that could be a recipe for disaster.
How many drivers will utilise ACC to drive faster than they should or are capable of doing so in poor visibility such as fog or heavy rain? Putting their trust in its capabilities at the expense of common sense .

Rant over.

This is a very valid concern and not just in the driving arena. The more "electronics" you introduce the greater the risk of de-skilling the user (not reacting properly to HGV joining from a slip road) or worse the electronics are used inappropriately (driving fast in poor visibility).

 

[ArunAlec]

Is it true to say that if one runs into the back of the car in front, one will be held to be at fault? That’s my understanding. I don’t think the difference between my reactions and the Cali reactions determines whether the car behind will hit me. If they do, they were too close. I like these features and see them as a useful backup if my concentration lapses; when using ACC, I am often “bullied” by other cars pulling into my safety distance, but I just shrug and drop back, if I can’t pull out. The ACC has only to prevent one collision and it’s paid for itself imo.


https://caliventures364847572.wordpress.com/

Trouble is, even if they are at fault you need to pray their insured!

 

[s2bear]

When I first got my Cali I was ‘experimenting’ with the ACC. It’s a useful backup if concentration were to lapse but what it can’t do, obviously, is anticipate.

I found that if the car in front decelerated quickly the ACC left it very late to brake and braked much harder as a result.

Whilst there is a mixture of ACC and non ACC cars on the road, that’s a potential recipe for disaster.

Then of course there was the scenario where I was waiting for my car to decelerate in unison with the vehicle in front before realizing that I must have inadvertently switched it off.

ACC+Doofus=clean underwear


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[Ocean Spirit]

I have ACC but prefer a smoother drive so I never use it.
Traffic volumes on half busy motorways mean my Cali brakes constantly as people just swallow up the gap. Even if its flowing and thats not happening you are depending on the vehicle in front not to drive on and off their brakes. If they do then thats what your Cali does too so it keeps the set distance. Effectively you may not accelerate and brake but the driver of the vehicle in front is dictating your drive (unless they are on ACC too..in which case the dictator is further up the road).
Thanks but no thanks.

 

[sidepod]

If only people understood they don’t have right of way joining a motorway!

 

[WelshGas]

If only people understood they don’t have right of way joining a motorway!

Agree, but I'm not going to stop and point out the error of their ways.

 

[Erbster]

I have ACC but prefer a smoother drive so I never use it.
Traffic volumes on half busy motorways mean my Cali brakes constantly as people just swallow up the gap. Even if its flowing and thats not happening you are depending on the vehicle in front not to drive on and off their brakes. If they do then thats what your Cali does too so it keeps the set distance. Effectively you may not accelerate and brake but the driver of the vehicle in front is dictating your drive (unless they are on ACC too..in which case the dictator is further up the road).
Thanks but no thanks.

I agree that on “half-busy” motorways you get bullied and I too often turn it off then. In heavy traffic I find it relaxing to just follow the car in front using ACC. In light traffic on long journeys (especially at night) I think it’s really good. It got loads of use this summer on the empty Spanish motorways.

Horses for courses.


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[Whistler]

There is also a reasonable expection that if the next lane is free you move into it to allow traffic to join safely.

 

[Amarillo]

I use ACC at least 50% of the time, probably closer to 80%. Very easy to use and reliable. On motorways I usually set the distance between me and the vehicle ahead at maximum which leaves space for a vehicle to move safely into the gap if needed.

 

[Richard]

We had ACC on our 2015 T6. We had several issues with our ACC triggering unwanted severe braking in the first six months but it got better so maybe it was reset during one of its software recalls? Either way we never became comfortable using it on crowded UK roads but got on ok with it on uncrowded French toll motorways. We would not have it or indeed front assist if we ordered a new car or van now. Some examples: a paper bag blew in front of the car triggering front assist, the car behind only just avoided us, I can recognise a paper bag, acc / front assist cannot. A cattle grid triggered emergency braking, luckily no car behind us that time, again I know its a cattle grid, acc and/or front assist cannot. We found we could turn off front assist in the menu's but every time the ignition was turned off it defaulted to switch it back on. If, as we did, you have any engine / air con issue which necessitates removing the front grille you should have the ACC realigned, not all dealers are equipped to do this, and it can be pretty inconvenient as we found, and no doubt costs if the vehicle is out of warranty.

 

[Freeley]

Dangerous to who? If the following car was far enough back he wouldn't and didn't hit you.
Sounds like it was a false trigger as it looked like you were heading for a stationary vehicle but you moved away.
Can't be switched off.
There have been reports of this before but not many considering how many there must be now on the roads.

Definitely dangerous. I've got ACC/Front Assist/Emergency Braking on my Crafter.
I was driving on a national speed limit road a few months back, a nice straight road. There was a car a good distance in front of me which indicated and moved right into a filter lane in order to turn off.
No problem at all but the van had other ideas and did a full on emergency stop down to walking pace.
Luckily the car behind me was a good distance back, but if he was following closer a major accident could've happened.
These systems aren't infallible which worries me.

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[Bellcrew]

Definitely dangerous. I've got ACC/Front Assist/Emergency Braking on my Crafter.
I was driving on a national speed limit road a few months back, a nice straight road. There was a car a good distance in front of me which indicated and moved right into a filter lane in order to turn off.
No problem at all but the van had other ideas and did a full on emergency stop down to walking pace.
Luckily the car behind me was a good distance back, but if he was following closer a major accident could've happened.
These systems aren't infallible which worries me.

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The slightest touch on the accelerator pedal cancels any auto braking and restores steady speed, the system is not fool proof but its foibles are predictable.

 

[Freeley]

The slightest touch on the accelerator pedal cancels any auto braking and restores steady speed, the system is not fool proof but its foibles are predictable.

No it doesn't, at least not on my Crafter.
I slammed my foot on the accelerator but it did nothing.

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[SusiBus]

We've got ACC/Front Assist/Emergency Braking and would not spec them again.
ACC I just don't get on with. It accelerates to catch up, then brakes etc, when if you're in charge you anticipate these situations. Also driving around our home patch Watford (M25/M1/traffic!) it's just a waste of time.
Emergency braking, it's just bloody dangerous IMO, having had it activate twice unnecessarily, both times luckily no one was following closely behind.

 

[Freeley]

We've got ACC/Front Assist/Emergency Braking and would not spec them again.
ACC I just don't get on with. It accelerates to catch up, then brakes etc, when if you're in charge you anticipate these situations. Also driving around our home patch Watford (M25/M1/traffic!) it's just a waste of time.
Emergency braking, it's just bloody dangerous IMO, having had it activate twice unnecessarily, both times luckily no one was following closely behind.

Yes that's true about the ACC although I like the idea in theory, I find it a bit tiresome in practice with the constant braking

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[Bellcrew]

Yes that's true about the ACC although I like the idea in theory, I find it a bit tiresome in practice with the constant braking

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I was wondering what speed is set on the ACC and the acceleration profile to cause this constant braking. I normally set cruise at 65 on the dashcam readout and have the lowest level of acceleration programmed in whilst on motorways/dual carriageways. Whilst it is not a perfect system I am very pleased with its operation compared with the standard cruise control on my car.

 

[SusiBus]

I was wondering what speed is set on the ACC and the acceleration profile to cause this constant braking. I normally set cruise at 65 on the dashcam readout and have the lowest level of acceleration programmed in whilst on motorways/dual carriageways. Whilst it is not a perfect system I am very pleased with its operation compared with the standard cruise control on my car.

What is the acceleration profile ?
How do you set it ?
I can find no reference to it in the manual, only adjusting the the speed during acceleration, which I presume is the final speed.