VW California parking in Swanage Dorset! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[cozmo1589]

Ok time for a little rant. Today I paid for my parking ticket on Swanage seafront. Popped the ticket in the window and set about the business of enjoying our lunch and taking in the scenery. To my sheer amazement a right jobs worth traffic warden started the procedure of issuing me with a ticket saying that the whole seafront is only for cars and motor bikes, motor homes and camper vans are not allowed as they exceed 1.5 Tones and are not classed as a car! So I had to move right there and then or receive a £65:00 fine! After exchanging a few choice words with him plus taking his photo and noting his badge number we left. As we drove out of Swanage we noticed several other small camper vans and car sized vans all with penalty tickets on, we were just fortunate to be inside just when BillyNoMates was about to slap us with a fine. Needless to say the signage is very ambiguous and does not make it crystal clear for camper van owners like ourselves. California owners please be beware.

 

[larrylamb]

Miserable gits

 

[cozmo1589]

Miserable gits

Yes totally! Can you just imagine how much money the council of that holiday seaside town makes off of poor unsuspecting holiday makers in their camper vans in fines each day, month, year! Isn't it people like ourselves they should want to be attracting to their beaches to spend our hard earned cash in the many local businesses there ?????

 

[andyinluton]

My V5 states its a car so I would have ignored him & taken my chances of arguing it later.

If its clearly signed about a weight limit it would be a bit harder to argue but there are an awful lot of ordinary cars over 1.5 tonnes would be interesting to see how he decides how heavy a vehicle is.

Did you get any photos of the signage?

 

[cozmo1589]

My V5 states its a car so I would have ignored him & taken my chances of arguing it later.

If its clearly signed about a weight limit it would be a bit harder to argue but there are an awful lot of ordinary cars over 1.5 tonnes would be interesting to see how he decides how heavy a vehicle is.

Did you get any photos of the signage?

No I didn't take photos of signage but I pulled over on the way out to double check and all it says is cars and motorbikes. No mention of weight, no mention of no camper vans, no mention of no motor homes, no cooking, no sleeping, no overnight parking etcetera like can be found in other towns and city's. Literally dozens of other very small vans and small campers were all done. Totally designed to confuse drives and create a revenue stream. I couldn't be arsed to take the ticket and then fight it with letters back and forth and maybe an appearance in court to contest. I'm totally disgusted a holiday seaside town would town would discriminate against motor homes. It's not as if a California is any larger than a people carrier or a range rover is it??? Just checked my V5 and it says Private Light Goods Motor Caravan and the weight given is 2,508kgs :-(

 

[andyinluton]

Exactly - would a caravelle get a ticket? what about a beach? as I said my V5 states car, how does the warden decide what to ticket? There is no DVLA classification of "camper van" or even "Motorhome" just "Motor Caravan" so the signs should be unenforceable. What about an estate car with a mattress in the back.

The weight limit is of more concern.

I spend a lot of my working time preparing contracts & sorting out the legal mess when they go wrong I might just park their for the fun of it. We are going to swanage at May bank holiday weekend so I might just give it a go...

 

[WelshGas]

Mass run to Swanage Seafront?

 

[cozmo1589]

Exactly - would a caravelle get a ticket? what about a beach? as I said my V5 states car, how does the warden decide what to ticket? There is no DVLA classification of "camper van" or even "Motorhome" just "Motor Caravan" so the signs should be unenforceable. What about an estate car with a mattress in the back.

The weight limit is of more concern.

I spend a lot of my working time preparing contracts & sorting out the legal mess when they go wrong I might just park their for the fun of it. We are going to swanage at May bank holiday weekend so I might just give it a go...

Well if you do go and get a ticket please let us know how you get on. I just wanted to vent off and warn others on here about that particular and very popular area for holiday makers. As I said there was no mention of weight on any signage but when I took him to task on how our vehicle was no bigger than other "cars" there he then spouted off quoting vehicle classifications and weights thereof and I thought ok he's got me on some technicality and I'd better go now before he pushes the print button on his Batman Accessory Belt. Needless to say we are now striking Swanage off our list of nice places on the South Coast to visit, enjoy and contribute to the local "tourist reliant" economy.

 

[cozmo1589]

Mass run to Swanage Seafront?

Haha - ahh go on then :-D

 

[Meoncoast]

http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/9017920.Anger_over_Swanage_s_seafront_motorhomes/

the towns view of us and why

 

[rich-s]

My Land Rover Discovery has a gross vehicle weight of 3250kg. I'm only in Weymouth, so might go and see how it fairs on their system.
I think several car parks in Weymouth state not for use of vehicles converted for sleeping in, or something along those lines. But it is very clear on the signage with symbols of what is and isn't allowed.

 

[cozmo1589]

http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/9017920.Anger_over_Swanage_s_seafront_motorhomes/

the towns view of us

Haha that news story made me chuckle a bit. All I can say is if there is a fair and legal condition in place for the towns parking regulations then who am I to argue but come on Swanage and invest in some proper easy to understand transparent signage. Making it clear as mud does two things. 1 motor caravans will still park there upsetting local residents and 2 brings in valuable income with the fines. If they don't want us put up some signage !! It's not rocket science - Pillocks !

For Example :-

 

[cozmo1589]

My Land Rover Discovery has a gross vehicle weight of 3250kg. I'm only in Weymouth, so might go and see how it fairs on their system.
I think several car parks in Weymouth state not for use of vehicles converted for sleeping in, or something along those lines. But it is very clear on the signage with symbols of what is and isn't allowed.

Well you'll be fine if it says Car on you V5 which it does. He's just quoting what constitutes a Motorcaravan thus then being able to justify and enforce his actions. Like I've said before, why not just make nice big clear signs so anyone who walks off to buy a parking ticket at any one of the dozen or so machines can clearly see they are going to be in breach of parking regulations if they decide to stay???

 

[WelshGas]

I've just checked the Swanage Car Park website on the Dorset County Council site. Charges are for cars and coaches. There is no definition of a car, no weight limits etc: I've therefore asked for clarification as " my Bently and Range Rover cars " are over 1 1/2 tons,
I'll let you know if I get a reply. Also told them that giving false information on their website, if the employee has a legal basis for his comments, is illegal. Also if there is no legal basis, signage or bye law, for their employees comments they as the employing authority are responsible for his actions and any damages/legal costs.
We'll see.

 

[cozmo1589]

I've just checked the Swanage Car Park website on the Dorset County Council site. Charges are for cars and coaches. There is no definition of a car, no weight limits etc: I've therefore asked for clarification as " my Bently and Range Rover cars " are over 1 1/2 tons,
I'll let you know if I get a reply. Also told them that giving false information on their website, if the employee has a legal basis for his comments, is illegal. Also if there is no legal basis, signage or bye law, for their employees comments they as the employing authority are responsible for his actions and any damages/legal costs.
We'll see.

Nice one Welsh Gas. Yes I would be very keen to hear of their response (if any) ;-)

 

[andyinluton]

I've done some quick research as the telly is naff this evening:
Extracts from the road traffic order are:


DORSET COUNTY COUNCIL

THE COUNTY OF DORSET
(VARIOUS ROADS IN THE DISTRICT OF PURBECK) (CONSOLIDATION OF ORDERS MADE FOR THE REGULATION OF TRAFFIC) ORDER 2009

the relevant bit is the schedule listing which goes on to define where in which road the restriction applies & what vehicles the restriction applies to:

SCHEDULE 31.01

ONSTREET PARKING PLACES FOR CARS, MOTORCYCLES AND INVALID CARRIAGES ONLY NO CAMPING, COOKING, SELLING OR OVERNIGHT SLEEPING

Within the Dorset document it defines what a motor car is:


“motor car” has the same meaning as stated in Section 136(2) of the Act of 1984

So we then go to the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 section 136(2) and that states:


Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984


In this Act “motor car” means a mechanically propelled vehicle, not being a motor cycle or an invalid carriage, which is constructed itself to carry a load or passengers and of which the weight unladen—

(a)

if it is constructed solely for the carriage of passengers and their effects, is adapted to carry not more than 7 passengers exclusive of the driver, and is fitted with tyres of such type as may be specified in regulations made by the Secretary of State, does not exceed 3050 kilograms;

The 3050Kg is the unladen weight as that is what gives the Californias the same speed limits as cars. The
"solely for the carriage of passengers and their effects" is what differentiates it from a commercial vehicle

There are a few other items in the Purbeck Road Traffic orders with the following:

1. 26.9 No person shall use a vehicle while it is in a parking place for overnight sleeping or camping purposes.
2. 26.10 A driver shall not while a vehicle is waiting in a parking place therein prepare or cook food or wash crockery, cutlery, clothing, themselves or other persons or any other articles or things whatsoever or permit or suffer any person in the parking place to do or be engaged in doing the aforesaid acts or things or any of them.

So you could get a ticket for parking other than accordance with the orders for doing your washing up.

If you want to really go to court & wind up a judge you could argue that by The traffic orders referring to "cars" which are not defined instead of stating "motor cars" as defined in the RTA1984 the orders do not apply at all. I wouldn't want to bet my house on that one.

I would however be confident of winning the argument that MY cali is a motor car as defined in the RTA 1984

I think a rally on the sea front is in order

 

[andyinluton]

Having just seen the photos if your V5 states "motor caravan" please don't park there!!

 

[BerndRos]

Really the UK is total DROSS

I am English and was born there and still work there but OMG it's the pits

Am at my place in Portugal at the mo and here in the village there are at least 20 vans in the marked areas plus many in secluded spots by the river road and they are ALL welcomed.....as the expectation is that they will spend money....parking charges...?...zero here

 

[cozmo1589]

I've done some quick research as the telly is naff this evening:
Extracts from the road traffic order are:


DORSET COUNTY COUNCIL

THE COUNTY OF DORSET
(VARIOUS ROADS IN THE DISTRICT OF PURBECK) (CONSOLIDATION OF ORDERS MADE FOR THE REGULATION OF TRAFFIC) ORDER 2009

the relevant bit is the schedule listing which goes on to define where in which road the restriction applies & what vehicles the restriction applies to:

SCHEDULE 31.01

ONSTREET PARKING PLACES FOR CARS, MOTORCYCLES AND INVALID CARRIAGES ONLY NO CAMPING, COOKING, SELLING OR OVERNIGHT SLEEPING

Within the Dorset document it defines what a motor car is:


“motor car” has the same meaning as stated in Section 136(2) of the Act of 1984

So we then go to the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 section 136(2) and that states:


Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984


In this Act “motor car” means a mechanically propelled vehicle, not being a motor cycle or an invalid carriage, which is constructed itself to carry a load or passengers and of which the weight unladen—

(a)

if it is constructed solely for the carriage of passengers and their effects, is adapted to carry not more than 7 passengers exclusive of the driver, and is fitted with tyres of such type as may be specified in regulations made by the Secretary of State, does not exceed 3050 kilograms;

The 3050Kg is the unladen weight as that is what gives the Californias the same speed limits as cars. The
"solely for the carriage of passengers and their effects" is what differentiates it from a commercial vehicle

There are a few other items in the Purbeck Road Traffic orders with the following:

1. 26.9 No person shall use a vehicle while it is in a parking place for overnight sleeping or camping purposes.
2. 26.10 A driver shall not while a vehicle is waiting in a parking place therein prepare or cook food or wash crockery, cutlery, clothing, themselves or other persons or any other articles or things whatsoever or permit or suffer any person in the parking place to do or be engaged in doing the aforesaid acts or things or any of them.

So you could get a ticket for parking other than accordance with the orders for doing your washing up.

If you want to really go to court & wind up a judge you could argue that by The traffic orders referring to "cars" which are not defined instead of stating "motor cars" as defined in the RTA1984 the orders do not apply at all. I wouldn't want to bet my house on that one.

I would however be confident of winning the argument that MY cali is a motor car as defined in the RTA 1984

I think a rally on the sea front is in order

Thanks for all that information and research on the subject. Some interesting points there. When all said and done it's such a shame that a lifestyle and recreational vehicle such as the California is being precluded from a seaside town such as Swanage.
Swanages loss and other numerous seaside towns gain is what I say.
Despite a lovely destination (especially on a sunny day like today) we do not plan to ever go back however if there was a mass California invasion planned to give a two fingers up to the establishment , then please count us in ;-D

 

[Martin]

How about an official Cali boycott of Swanange! there are plenty of other campervan friendly councils out there we can use.

Here in North Devon they actually encourage Campervans and motorhomes to park up and stay the night.

 

[cozmo1589]

How about an official Cali boycott of Swanange! there are plenty of other campervan friendly councils out there we can use.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Yes Martin you are right, it's obvious they don't want us there (or it would be if they put up clear and concise signage) I really hate the completely underhanded way they are going about excluding Motorcaravans but happy for owners to be completely unaware so they park up and thus contribute to the vast revenue that the thousands of fines will generate year in year out!!

 

[motacyclist]

the whole seafront is only for cars and motor bikes,

It's unusual for motor bikes to be welcome ....
I can't understand the reasoning of some town councils, we passed through Dolgellau yesterday and despite the fact there was no one there, there was a parking charge of £2.50 for 2 hours. We know the town, and there is not a lot there, but we would have had a walk round and a lunch at one of the cafes, maybe bought something from one or to of the shops; but we wouldn't stop there on principal so any potential business was lost.

A few miles later, Barmouth - same thing but at least there is more to see, so we paid up. TBH, it should have been free, there were so few people there they should make it as attractive as possible for visitors, especially out of season.

 

[GrannyJen]

Really the UK is total DROSS

I am English and was born there and still work there but OMG it's the pits

Am at my place in Portugal at the mo and here in the village there are at least 20 vans in the marked areas plus many in secluded spots by the river road and they are ALL welcomed.....as the expectation is that they will spend money....parking charges...?...zero here

Yes.

Totally agree.

Go to France, Belgium, Germany, Sweden .......... welcome peole who spend money.

UK? Bugger off,

Sorry. England. Scotland? As good as anywhere else in Europe. I despair of the English NIMBY attitude.

 

[motacyclist]

Yes.

Totally agree.

Go to France, Belgium, Germany, Sweden .......... welcome peole who spend money.

UK? Bugger off,

You can come to Chester and park overnight for a nominal fee at the Roodee (next to the River Dee a few minutes walk from the city centre). Not much use for me though, I only live a cycle ride away Let me know when you're coming

 

[cozmo1589]

Having just seen the photos if your V5 states "motor caravan" please don't park there!!

If you're referring to the photo of a sign I posted up earlier, that was just an example of how easy other councils handle such a situation. Swanage had nothing of the sort on display anywhere!