VW California T5 ONLY Roof Corrosion - General Discussion

[David Eccles]

Re: Has anyone done the Maths

I have heard that its several thousand for each bus!
with potentially HUNDREDS to do ...
I too wonder about the future of the Cali with the new T6 when it arrives, especially given the new forthcoming Westy version with manual elevating roof in pipeline, and VWs renewed relationship with Westfalia now they are not owned by rivals!

 

[gooseyj]

Have we got any confirmation of the roof supplier going bust

 

[Stu]

Have we got any confirmation of the roof supplier going bust

Apparently just a rumour - according to VW. They have however conceded that the current supplier cannot meet demand and so have switched manufacturer.

 

[gooseyj]

I am not surprised 50,000 roofs is a big order

 

[David Eccles]

I am not surprised 50,000 roofs is a big order

:lol:

 

[owen_h]

Just some thoughts on those in the situation of having their corrosion claim rejected due to the 6 year cut off. I should also say at this point that personally my van being under 3 years old has had the official repair approved so I’m not in the situation of having to implement my ideas. My thoughts below are also only in relation to the front panel section.
It seems to me that a large part of the repair cost is due to having to completely remove the whole roof and strengthening frame in order to fit the new isolating gasket. If however the front panel was replaced with a fibreglass one (which cant react or corrode) then the gasket would not be needed and thus the roof frame not needed to be removed either. Should make the whole process easier, quicker and thus a lot less than the £4k being quoted. Issue would of course be sourcing a GRP front panel that fits. Looking at the original suppliers website that Stu linked to a while back (http://www.polyroof.de) and translating using Google it seems they now do the panel in fibreglass, translated text = “We also made the front roof panel above the windscreen made of fiberglass and is redesigned. ” maybe that would fit? If not then you would have to get a fibreglass fabricator to make a mould (probably from a removed and cleaned up existing panel) from which new panels could be produced.
The finish on a GRP panel would probably not be as good as aluminium (but better than a corroded Al one) and this would all have to be outside the VW dealer network but might be an option worth investigating if 6+ owners don’t get anywhere with a warranty repair.

 

[Andy]

Fitting a fireglass front panel may de value any cali ha ving this done. No longer origional.

 

[barry]

Fitting a fireglass front panel may de value any cali ha ving this done. No longer origional.

not original: but :censor better

 

[owen_h]

Fitting a fireglass front panel may de value any cali ha ving this done. No longer origional.

Agree that it’s not the best solution which would be an approved repair under warranty. But the counter argument is that these 6+ year old vehicles have been devalued anyway as VW wont, as it stands pay, leaving their owners or potential future owners with a £4k bill. A fibreglass panel would not be original I agree and thus potentially devalue the vehicle but probably not by £3k (assuming a fibreglass repair could be done for under £1000). For what is in effect a cosmetic repair £4k is a huge amount to spend on a 6 year old vehicle, on pretty much anything other than a Cali with its current residuals it would not be considered worth the spend. On pure economic grounds the owners would be better off getting the blisters rubbed down, filled and repainted every couple of years. Or just before trading the vehicle in against a new one… that would be an interesting part exchange discussion with a salesman trying to sell based on VW warranty & customer service.

 

[Custardtart]

Bear in mind it is a strengthening panel to compensate for the large hole in the roof and associated loss of structural integrity I'm not sure it is ok.

 

[David Eccles]

RESPONSE FROM VW CUSTOMER SERVICE
(not a call centre operative but from Executive Office)
There will be a updated statement released from VW UK next week re repairs, procedures, wait time etc.
Nothing new really, however this is what I was just told officially as both owner and magazine editor
1.The parts supplier has NOT gone out of business. They are working to increase production of panels etc but VW have also taken on another supplier as demand is much higher than realised.
This should ease any log jam wait time due to any unavailability of parts..(hmmm)
2. Anyone who has reported issue direct to VWCS should be contacted by VWCS direct to say its been approved and which bodyshop allocated to.
3. Anyone like me who has done it through dealership SHOULD be contacted direct by relevant Bodyshop to say claim accepted and they are on waiting list and what number in the queue. This has not been happening but should do from now on!
4. Estimated time waits from bodyshop are based on current time being taken to turn around. VW are confident that as they get into doing it the work should be turned round in a week rather than 2 weeks. (rose tinted glasses?)
5. When asked about supplying bodyshops with more Calis VW say that the bodyshops only want 2 at a time as they have other work to be doing and are not working exclusively for VW!
6. And finally..yes..it might well take over a year's wait to get it done.

I get impression VW are overwhelmed with extent of problem and numbers now being reported. Initially they only worked on info received via Customer Services - no joined up thinking. However I think the wait time totally unacceptable and will be writing to VW UK and VW Germany to point out the damage this is doing to their brand, customer loyalty, and future sales. So as "waiter" no 71 in the queue its going to be 71 weeks optimistically!!! that's rubbish service!!!!
I think everyone with the fault should write to VW UK and VW Germany to make VW aware of their feelings - 150+ letters has to have some kind of message.
Maybe we can, via this forum, get key addresses and even a template for people to use and make personal?
Also I urge anyone who has not reported it to do so, and those who have been told its accepted but have no idea of a wait time should contact bodyshop or VWCS direct (depending whether done initially via dealer or VWCS). Dealers are supposed to pass on names of those they see and report and get approved direct to Bodyshop - check your has done it.
phew..I need a coffee now!

 

[owen_h]

Bear in mind it is a strengthening panel to compensate for the large hole in the roof and associated loss of structural integrity I'm not sure it is ok.

my understanding is that the aluminium panel is not structural. There is another reinforcing steel frame underneath it to replace the strength lost when the large hole was cut. I could be wrong of course, wouldn't be the first time. :crazy

 

[David Eccles]

And another update from VW!
I was telephoned just now by Head of Press and PR at VW CV UK (whom I know)
he wanted to reassure me just how seriously VW are actually taking all this..and he is part of the team in UK that is co-ordinating and directing policy so is at heart of it.
Without going into detail he assures me the parts supply issue is being dealt with and things put in place (as VW said to me earlier) and importantly VW recognise the wait time currently being mooted is not acceptable and that they are talking about how it can be improved..eg possibly more approved bodyshops etc etc...
He also wanted to stress that ALL those falling within the six years will ALL be dealt with as quickly as possible and that moving things on faster is a key priority for VW Uk at this present moment. He also said they were going to invite Susibus (Graham?) to meet with them to discuss in depth all the issues and concerns of Cali Club Forum members (and Cali owners in general) face to face, which has to be good.
I must admit that my faith is somewhat restored again now ... I know many on here are disillusioned, especially those relatively new to VW, but I am going to wait and see what happens over next couple of months now to give benefit of doubt...VW cant afford a PR disaster or unhappy customers etc and I am now quite certain that a whole lot of stuff is going on behind the scenes and that I (and others) wont have to wait for 2 years! We shall see....

 

[MarkW]

Hi David,

Have VW identified the root cause of the main roof corrosion and advised the corrective action so that the problem will not reoccur for existing and prospective owners?

 

[Ian789]

Someone posted that VW had just passed the 50,000 mark for the California.
I suspect the largest single market for these would be Germany itself - do we have any information about what is happening there regarding these problems ?

Also has anyone been able to get a definite answer as to whether this is a fault that affects (or will affect) ALL Californias - or is the issue related to certain production runs ?
In either case VW should issue a recall / replace the front panel etc. irrespective of whether the problem has materialised at present. Only the number of vans covered by the recall changes. Or would this be VW officially admitting a manufacturing defect which would likely drive a coach and horses through their attempt to limit the warranty repair to vans less than 6 years old.

 

[Calivaughan]

What can 6 year+ California owners do if their claim is rejected.
I became aware of the roof corrosion problem from your survey email in June 2014. I checked my California and discovered a small corrosion patch on the roof section immediately above the windscreen on the passengers side of the vehicle, so I contacted the van centre in Swansea. I made a appointment for 20th June where the body shop advisor photographed the corrosion, filled out a report and I awaited the results.
This report was submitted to Volkswagen Heritage Van Centre Bristol on 18th July who refused the claim due to the age of the vehicle as my California was registered on the 16th May 2008 making it just 2 months past their 6 year extended Paint warranty.
I was extremely upset and angry with this news so I rang VW Customer services,they were totally aware of the problem but stuck to the problem as being a Paint defect rather than a manufacturing Defect. They then advised me to ring the van centre in Swansea and see if they would do the work, this I did but they wanted to distance themselves from any repair work on my vehicle and suggested I try a private Body shop repair garage!
After a number of calls to VW Customer Service I realised I was not going to get any satisfaction so I asked for the refusal to be sent to me in writing which they have done. I also requested a copy of the report that the VW Swansea Van centre submitted to Bristol but this was refused
How can VW get away with what is a Manufacturing defect, they are fobbing it off as a Paint issue, it would be nothing to them to include all California,s.
I am at a loss as to what I should do now, should I chase VW to get them to sort out the corrosion or should I sort it out myself. The corrosion will have to be dealt with soon, is has devalued my California and will present a problem if I were to try and sell it in the future.
Why didn't,t VW issue a corrosion warning as soon as they were aware of it, California,s are not cheap, it has taken the edge off owning a VW and it leaves a sour taste in the mouth.

 

[northumberland]

As per my previous post I had my front panel replaced about one year ago and some work carried out on the roof including new bellows and respray. Following repeated recommendations on this site I decided to check under the elevating roof sealing rubber and I was not surprised to find paintwork lifting at various points under the sealing rubber. As all this work was done before the 'separation gasket fix' was thought up I have no doubt that the front panel will at some point start corroding as well.

The van is going back to the VW garage who carried out the work.

Dave

 

[gooseyj]

Seriously as soon this Cali corrosion problem goes Global for 6+ Calis, its going to be for sale Cali cost over £44k new, needs £5000 spending on it, might be able to get it repaired in a few years time when spares are available. That's what is facing 6+ Cali owners. So sad VW

 

[johnv]

Someone posted that VW had just passed the 50,000 mark for the California.
I suspect the largest single market for these would be Germany itself - do we have any information about what is happening there regarding these problems ?

Also has anyone been able to get a definite answer as to whether this is a fault that affects (or will affect) ALL Californias - or is the issue related to certain production runs ?
In either case VW should issue a recall / replace the front panel etc. irrespective of whether the problem has materialised at present. Only the number of vans covered by the recall changes. Or would this be VW officially admitting a manufacturing defect which would likely drive a coach and horses through their attempt to limit the warranty repair to vans less than 6 years old.

This is a really important question that seems to get lost or ignored everytime it surfaces. Do those of us who are (lucky?) enough not to be affected AT THE MOMENT just sit it out until the guarantee runs out and then face the inevitable (?) £5k bill?

 

[Rozzie50]

Just checked my roof and Yes, there is corrosion. Will be on the case ASAP to get this sorted. Not great if the wait is a few years!!!!!

 

[Stu]

This is a really important question that seems to get lost or ignored everytime it surfaces. Do those of us who are (lucky?) enough not to be affected AT THE MOMENT just sit it out until the guarantee runs out and then face the inevitable (?) £5k bill?

At the moment yes John. VW are only carrying out repairs to vans that are exhibiting the issue.

Your estimate is pretty close to the mark for a front section and elevating roof repair.

If it were me I would be seeking some redress or assurance from VW because as you say it's not if but when.

It might be an idea to lodge a claim with VW under the premise of them repairing an accepted manufacturing defect. Clearly due to the parts supply issues you are some way off having anything done but if you could at least gain an acceptance of blame you can have the repair done at a later date.

 

[Stu]

As you have likely guessed there are a few of us working in the background on this for everyone and we will continue to pursue VW for a satisfactory outcome.

With that in mind is there anyone out there who is a 6+ owner and that has or is about to take some legal advice?

If so we would be interested to hear the outcome which would then be useful to gauge the next move with VW.

If so please drop me a PM with the details

 

[IanE]

Just starting on this (again!) and would really appreciate some advice. The front panel was repaired within the 3 year warranty period (by Preston VW Van Centre where we bought the van new in Sept 2010), but is now showing corrosion coming through again. Is it best to contact Preston, which is 50 miles away and a bit inconvenient, Grange-over- Sands VW dealer (where they sell and service vans, have some experience of Californias, but don't sell them), which is nearby, or VW Customer Services direct?

Am I right in thinking that they will check the main roof panel if they accept responsibility for the front panel, if you so request? I'm a bit nervous about pulling back the rubber seal myself having tried fairly gently.

Many thanks in anticipation!

Ian

 

[Stu]

As I understand it you can take it to the van centre of your choice and they will raise the claim with VW.

 

[smgcowfoldparts]

Just starting on this (again!) and would really appreciate some advice. The front panel was repaired within the 3 year warranty period (by Preston VW Van Centre where we bought the van new in Sept 2010), but is now showing corrosion coming through again. Is it best to contact Preston, which is 50 miles away and a bit inconvenient, Grange-over- Sands VW dealer (where they sell and service vans, have some experience of Californias, but don't sell them), which is nearby, or VW Customer Services direct?

Am I right in thinking that they will check the main roof panel if they accept responsibility for the front panel, if you so request? I'm a bit nervous about pulling back the rubber seal myself having tried fairly gently.

Many thanks in anticipation!

Ian

Any VW Van Centre can submit the claim regardless. Ask them to check behind the roof seal, it will come off and go back on again with ease.

cheers