Tesla have provided no peer reviewed technical data to support their claim. I have, and work with, a number of battery technology developers - none believe their claim. The engine on an old 1.8 BMW of mine exhibited no loss in performance over 500,000 miles - measured by BMW and compared to as new performance data.
What happens to the EV batteries when they no longer power the car? Are they recycled? I agree, we need to move away from fossil fuels but the carbon footprint to generate electricity is HUGE; much larger than the utilisation of the fossil fuel itself. Check out why electric boilers, while more efficient (99-100%) than gas boilers, have a lower EPC rating because it takes more energy to generate electricity than it does to buy and burn fossil fuels. So, if everyone moves to electric, unless everyone has renewable energy sources such as solar PV cells on their homes AND storage batteries, they are reliant on the energy companies to generate electricity to power the EVs. And how does the grid generate electricity? Currently it comes primarily from fossil fuel and that will not change in the near future. So, the government cannot meet the demands of electricity requirements with the push for the public to buy EVs and the only way to do that is generate more electricity; i.e. burn more fossil fuel. Another disadvantage not advertised by auto companies is the battery management system and the degradation rate of the electric battery. VW batteries were degrading at 8% per year, so along with the reduction in battery power, the range reduces as well. Tesla batteries performed the best with a 1-2% reduction per year. But at 8% per year under normal conditions, that means the battery needs to be changed at about 12 years. Tesla battery changeouts cost IRO £20,000. Under cold climate conditions, battery degradation accelerates in the long term. In the short term, range diminishes, so any trip needs to take into account ambient temperature.
Agree, you shouldn't need to replace the Tesla after 12 years. Although a guy in Finland ended up blowing up his Tesla S when he was handed a $21000 bill for a battery replacement on a 7 year old car! But generally, Tesla the only EV with a decent battery. It's just if you need to ever replace it, they're expensive. The only point I was making was that before buying any EV, check the battery management, do your research and don't believe necessarily what's printed on the range because it fluctuates with age of the battery and temperature.Majority of the car gets recycled, same as ICE vehicles.
UK's current prime source of energy is from renewables:
View attachment 89085
Why would you need to replace a Tesla battery after 12 year, for a 12/24% drop in capacity over the period. ie - range was originally 300miles, so drop to 264/228miles . The car is still of use, just needs a charge more often. Performance of the car should be the same.
Agree not good sense to buy a VAG EV if its true that they lose 8% capacity per year, otherwise you might as well just camp on your driveway as it gets older.
Just received below from our local council, so would expect similar across UK soon:
West Sussex EV Chargepoint Network | Connected Kerb
West Sussex welcomes new electric vehicle charging points! Explore the expanding network and be a part of the region's sustainability mobility revolution.www.connectedkerb.com
But we are still keeping our Cali!..
……. and as we all know there’s loads of R&D on battery technologies these days. I’d expect EVs to be fitted with batteries with much more range and a shorter recharging cycle by the latter half of this decade when the electric Cali hits the streets.Majority of the car gets recycled, same as ICE vehicles.
UK's current prime source of energy is from renewables:
View attachment 89085
Why would you need to replace a Tesla battery after 12 year, for a 12/24% drop in capacity over the period. ie - range was originally 300miles, so drop to 264/228miles . The car is still of use, just needs a charge more often. Performance of the car should be the same.
Agree not good sense to buy a VAG EV if its true that they lose 8% capacity per year, otherwise you might as well just camp on your driveway as it gets older.
Just received below from our local council, so would expect similar across UK soon:
West Sussex EV Chargepoint Network | Connected Kerb
West Sussex welcomes new electric vehicle charging points! Explore the expanding network and be a part of the region's sustainability mobility revolution.
But we are still keeping our Cali!..
marineindustrynews.co.uk
Whatever next!Energy crisis: Electric car owners to give power to National Grid
BRITAIN'S energy crisis is given a helping hand through a trial that will draw power from parked cars at times of low supply or high demand.www.express.co.uk
So you come out to your electric Cali in the morning to go to work and find that all of your neighbours have boiled a kettle and made some toast and you have no charge left ....
Unfortunately the math is somewhere between wrong and contrived. On materials he misses out the environmental disaster of mining cobalt and especially neodymium. Electric cars do make some sense for inner city use and they are lovely to drive. However, I have no intention of purchasing one in the foreseeable future - unless compelled. I see EVs as part of a transport revolution along side clean ICE vehicles.
Ok thanks. I'll let him know.
You are correct. What he has shown is a simplistic mathematical model. If one is going to use MMs then one has to make sure ALL the variables are included, like them or not. If all variables are not included, as in this case in my opinion, then one has "garbage in garbage out". So yes, include the items you mentioned plus all the mining negatives. Only that way will a real answer be even close, and even that assumes there are no "unknown unknowns", which there will be. Mathematical models are very dangerous if not meticulously constructed.Ok thanks. I'll let him know.
I also noticed he misses out on the environmental costs of burning and transporting fossil fuels.
It's almost like he didn't include those things on purpose.
Yeah, unknown unknowns are bad.
Right?! Pretty much everything we consume, from PPE to condoms to TVs are made in China. When I was a child it was illegal to sell products in the US that weren’t made by workers with the same protections US workers legally had. How far we have fallen, basically all the west’s child labor laws have been repealed, because manufacturers can just go to places where it is legal to exploit child labor, and then sell their products without problems in countries where people died fighting to stop this. Who, I wonder, profits from this, and who let it happen. We’re told we’re lucky to have almost unlimited cheap stuff available, but nobody tells you that you will lose your job and your children will be poorer that you. I agree with you, it should stop.
Its not difficult finding equivalent products made in other countries than China. I buy PPE from Germany, a lot of condoms are made in Malaysia (not unsurprising given the latex is harvested there), and TV's from Japan. I consciously avoid as much as possible from China like clothing but some are unavoidable if you're an Apple fanboi.
Not true. There are several Tesla owners groups that are monitoring battery capacities on an ongoing basis. Teslas are permanently connected to the Internet, so it's possible to write apps that give access. Of course, the owners have to install the apps, log in to their cars and opt to share that data, but the capacity/life of hundreds if not thousands of Tesla batteries is freely available. If that's not a peer review, I don't know what is.
Here's an example of one of those graphs. OK, I accept it's just a graph from the Internet, but if you do your own search, you can verify the information. And yes, I said "95%" above. It's closer to 90%. I was posting from memory.
If accurate these are quite impressive numbers and they’ll potentially improve further with advances in battery technology.
I agree with you, inevitably when you put all your eggs in the one basket something goes tits up. If we are going to rely on materials from Countries like China and Russia we are going down the same slippery slope as what’s happening now with energy and oil.
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