Water Leak - do I need to spend £2500 pounds to replace the infamous roof panel?

[Lambeth Cali]

Ah so it’s not the drain pipe like ours. These things can take a while to locate the problem.

 

[mr_waxdope_noodle]

Initially, water was appearing in the drivers footwell. I pulled apart the trim in the lower dashboard and traced it up to the A-pillar. So I removed the trim on the pillar and traced it up to the top corner of the windscreen. Thinking I had found it I had the windscreen removed and the seal replaced; but this wasn’t the problem. As mentioned earlier in this thread the water was finding it’s way through a tiny overlapping bit of metal above the windscreen. So I pulled the headlining back and found the drain pipe, which is connected properly and draining properly. I don’t think the drain is leaking, although the leak is somewhere nearby. The rubber grommet in the roof where the electrics disappear into seems fine. There is a small amount of corrosion but nothing noteworthy. If I open the roof and pour water into the drain it works properly. If I block the drain the water doesn’t go anywhere. I’m struggling to trace it any further because of access to that piece of the roof.

Did you managed to trace it? Have a similar issue.


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[pilot_mark]

Did you managed to trace it? Have a similar issue.


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Sadly not. I’ve been busy with work, so for now the van has a cover over it and is chocked up at the front which is working to prevent water ingress. The craziness is that with the roof up, when I pour water into the roof channels, the water drains correctly and nothing comes inside. But just a bit of rain and van seems to deposit the whole lot inside. I would need a tiny camera to trace it further now.

 

[Lambeth Cali]

Sadly not. I’ve been busy with work, so for now the van has a cover over it and is chocked up at the front which is working to prevent water ingress. The craziness is that with the roof up, when I pour water into the roof channels, the water drains correctly and nothing comes inside. But just a bit of rain and van seems to deposit the whole lot inside. I would need a tiny camera to trace it further now.

This is the same as mine. I still don’t understand it. Roof down, leaked like crazy but roof up, full downpour, didn’t leak. Water does not seem as predictable as you’d think.

Thankfully sorted now.

 

[MeltedGoldfish]

Time to fess up an joint the party: I've been chasing the same leak since February.

Like others here I've checked and confirmed it's not a leaking drain pipe, have bought a borescope, have tried replacing cracked sikaflex, got very close to replacing the windscreen (but fortunately realised it was coming from between the layers of body panels, not the windscreen seal, before I actually got it done) and yet it keeps coming back.

Like @ArunAlec and @Lambeth Cali it doesn't seem to leak with the roof up, and with roof closed it is getting in and pooling somewhere intially, then pouring out at the top of the A-pillar when I move the van (usually when van parked nose-down, then comes in as I move off the drive onto flatter tarmac). I did get to the bottom of that bit with the help of the borescope - when I move the van it pours in through this hole (photo from video):



...then down and out between the body panel sheets at the top of the A-pillar (as described here). The hole you're looking at is above and a couple of inches outboard of the passenger sun visor attachment point (you can just see it by eye with the sun visor removed and your head in the right place). I think it's this hole here:



And that photo was borrowed from this thread (@David Eccles) dating back to 2015.

And like that thread, I've also had the roof cap done (before I owned the van) with the sealant coming away/perishing - that was my original assumption of the source of the leak. But having replaced it along the whole length of the rear edge of the the roof cap, and now added the extra seam along the sides of the van (see post #37 in this thread), I'm still getting water in.

I'm not convinced it's the grommet as described in this thread, as mine seem pretty solid in place, I couldn't see any water coming in through there with the borescope, and it's lower than the internal hole that the water then puts through when I move the van. However, I'm just about to walk down to Euro Car Parts to buy some of that sealant anyway and give it a try! Next step will have to be removing the headlining.

(And by the way, I have tried enquiring with VW about getting it looked at since this was all disturbed as part of the roof corrosion work...but that's another thread in it's own right and suffice to say I'm not getting anywhere fast).

Will let you know how it goes...

 

[pilot_mark]

I wanted to report back that I’ve finally fixed this. It’s been quite a journey, from me trying to find the problem, VW spectacularly failing the find the problem and finally finding a good independent garage who could fix it.

So, here is my report. I took it to Jason and Mitchell at Dub Works in Petersfield in Hampshire. They found that the front spoiler was lifting and had corrosion under it.



The water had been getting in through little holes along the back edge of the front spoiler.



That’s all been fixed and they’ve added some invisible drain holes under the front of the spoiler in case water gets in there again.

This van has been really good and had no real visible rust in the roof so it’s been quite an eye opener that this was all going on under that front spoiler. Hope this helps someone else.

 

[KGCali]

I wanted to report back that I’ve finally fixed this. It’s been quite a journey, from me trying to find the problem, VW spectacularly failing the find the problem and finally finding a good independent garage who could fix it.

So, here is my report. I took it to Jason and Mitchell at Dub Works in Petersfield in Hampshire. They found that the front spoiler was lifting and had corrosion under it.

View attachment 105700

The water had been getting in through little holes along the back edge of the front spoiler.

View attachment 105701

That’s all been fixed and they’ve added some invisible drain holes under the front of the spoiler in case water gets in there again.

This van has been really good and had no real visible rust in the roof so it’s been quite an eye opener that this was all going on under that front spoiler. Hope this helps someone else.

Glad you got it sorted looks like a good job.
What was the approx cost for the repair?

 

[MeltedGoldfish]

@pilot_mark I have a horrible feeling I'm in exactly the same space, so interested to know the cost. As above I've tried sealing around the grommet with to no avail (one side was already fully sealed anyway, and like yours it doesn't leak with the roof up). Still convinced it's getting in somehow at the back edge of the front spoiler. Hoping to get a couple of days off work in next couple of weeks to remove headlining and get the boroscope in there to prove it, but if I can't seal it up myself then may need to go down the same route as you.

 

[KGCali]

@pilot_mark I have a horrible feeling I'm in exactly the same space, so interested to know the cost. As above I've tried sealing around the grommet with to no avail (one side was already fully sealed anyway, and like yours it doesn't leak with the roof up). Still convinced it's getting in somehow at the back edge of the front spoiler. Hoping to get a couple of days off work in next couple of weeks to remove headlining and get the boroscope in there to prove it, but if I can't seal it up myself then may need to go down the same route as you.

If you've had the replacement plastic cowl fitted over the ali roof corrosion check the mastic seal all around it for cracks, had my plastic cowl replaced under warranty by VW after 2 years due to leaks, see photo, zoom in ...

 

[MeltedGoldfish]

If you've had the replacement plastic cowl fitted over the ali roof corrosion check the mastic seal all around it for cracks, had my plastic cowl replaced under warranty by VW after 2 years due to leaks, see photo, zoom in ...

View attachment 105913

Thanks - After my first round of investigation, that’s exactly where I thought the problem was, and my seal was cracked with gaping holes. So I completely removed to old seal material and replaced it with fresh sikaflex, and replaced the protective tape. That was last March, and it seemed to fix the problem. But in September it started leaking again (same symptoms). The (new) seal is still looking fine, albeit I’ve tried adding more sealant anyway, but to no avail. Hence now trying to find where else it’s getting in. I did actually find another small leak in the sealant around the side of the cowl, but have plugged that too and it’s still getting water in.

The roof repair came with a 3 year warranty itself, but seems that’s with the garage that did the work, not VW itself. Unfortunately, I’m now outside that (although annoyingly was still inside when I first found the leak last March, if only I’d realised it was repair-related at the time!). The repair was done under the previous owner though, who lived other end of the country, and at the moment VW can’t even tell me which garage did the work for me be able to challenge (they can only confirm the date it was done!).

I’m actually still convinced it’s coming in via the seal at the back of the cowl as you suggest - but I just can’t see how! I have today off work, so about to go into battle with it again….

 

[MeltedGoldfish]

So, removing the headlining allowed me just enough space to get the camera deeper into the cowling, and film the water coming in and pooling. And with a bit of trial and error, I found the source....and guess what?.....it was exactly where it was the first time, and where @KGCali suggested and where @pilot_mark mentioned: the seal along the rear edge of the cowling repair cap.

This leak was at the far right of KGCali's photo above (where the roof line 'dips down') and along a little. So I had fixed it a year ago, but my seal had developed another split. It was barely noticeable with the naked eye, and the extra layer of sealant I applied back in the autumn didn't go far enough to cover it. I've now removed the leaking section of the sikaflex and re-applied, and now all appears fixed, with headlining reassembled.

Whilst the headlining was out, I did check the two bolts that (I assume!) hold the cowling on. Neither were what I'd call 'loose', but I did get a fraction of a turn on; maybe 1/8 to 1/4 of a turn on the passenger side, which is the side that was leaking. No idea if that will make any difference!

Hope that helps the next person...

 

[KGCali]

So, removing the headlining allowed me just enough space to get the camera deeper into the cowling, and film the water coming in and pooling. And with a bit of trial and error, I found the source....and guess what?.....it was exactly where it was the first time, and where @KGCali suggested and where @pilot_mark mentioned: the seal along the rear edge of the cowling repair cap.

This leak was at the far right of KGCali's photo above (where the roof line 'dips down') and along a little. So I had fixed it a year ago, but my seal had developed another split. It was barely noticeable with the naked eye, and the extra layer of sealant I applied back in the autumn didn't go far enough to cover it. I've now removed the leaking section of the sikaflex and re-applied, and now all appears fixed, with headlining reassembled.

Whilst the headlining was out, I did check the two bolts that (I assume!) hold the cowling on. Neither were what I'd call 'loose', but I did get a fraction of a turn on; maybe 1/8 to 1/4 of a turn on the passenger side, which is the side that was leaking. No idea if that will make any difference!

Hope that helps the next person...

Glad you got it sorted.
It's a shame VW didn't use a rubber seal around the replacement plastic cowl as so many users have had issues with the sealant splitting leadings to leaks

 

[JezandcathBVW]

Glad you got it sorted.
It's a shame VW didn't use a rubber seal around the replacement plastic cowl as so many users have had issues with the sealant splitting leadings to leaks

Hi all, thank-you as this post has been so helpful as we are experiencing the same issues on our 2012 T5 Cali. Tried much of the above apart from taking to Petersfield VDub as we are in the Midlands, but still leaking. A couple of questions please:
Where does the leak exhibit itself inside? Is it above the door/roof handle like ours?
Secondly anyone know of a good garage in the Midlands area that might look at this pls?

 

[MeltedGoldfish]

Where does the leak exhibit itself inside? Is it above the door/roof handle like ours?

For me it was manifesting in the passenger footwell, with a wet carpet. It was only once I removed the A-pillar trim I could see it was coming in at the top corner of the windscreen then flowing down behind the A-pillar trim and out at the bottom, into the footwell. Like others I initially thought it might have been the windscreen seal, but it was actually coming out from between two folds of metal that make up the roof structure, right at the top corner of the window.

Without the A-pillar trim in place it just rains down like a waterfall from that point into the cab, all over the dash and door trim, and usually all over the unsuspecting passenger…!

Sorry can’t help with your second question. Although I tried contacting Dub Works several time by email and phone messages and they never got back to me.

 

[JezandcathBVW]

For me it was manifesting in the passenger footwell, with a wet carpet. It was only once I removed the A-pillar trim I could see it was coming in at the top corner of the windscreen then flowing down behind the A-pillar trim and out at the bottom, into the footwell. Like others I initially thought it might have been the windscreen seal, but it was actually coming out from between two folds of metal that make up the roof structure, right at the top corner of the window.

Without the A-pillar trim in place it just rains down like a waterfall from that point into the cab, all over the dash and door trim, and usually all over the unsuspecting passenger…!

Sorry can’t help with your second question. Although I tried contacting Dub Works several time by email and phone messages and they never got back to me.

Thanks for such a quick response! We get some water here too... but it gets wet in the ceiling lining around the door handle above the door first we think! we'll keep trying... we've 'repaired' the sealant in the horizontal joint with the back edge of the cowel like others.. but still coming in somewhere... drains all seem fine! We'll keep trying.

 

[KGCali]

Hi all, thank-you as this post has been so helpful as we are experiencing the same issues on our 2012 T5 Cali. Tried much of the above apart from taking to Petersfield VDub as we are in the Midlands, but still leaking. A couple of questions please:
Where does the leak exhibit itself inside? Is it above the door/roof handle like ours?
Secondly anyone know of a good garage in the Midlands area that might look at this pls?

Mine leaked all around the headlining roof handles. The front cowl mastic was cracked in a few places around the cowl, front, rear and sides. As my cowl replacement was within the two year warranty VW agreed to replace it so my 2010 Cali was sent up to Claridges who did a great job and no more leaks but I worry about future leaks in case the same happens again after the next warranty runs out.

Accident Repair

volkswagenapprovedrepair.co.uk

 

[MeltedGoldfish]

Thanks for such a quick response! We get some water here too... but it gets wet in the ceiling lining around the door handle above the door first we think! we'll keep trying... we've 'repaired' the sealant in the horizontal joint with the back edge of the cowel like others.. but still coming in somewhere... drains all seem fine! We'll keep trying.

Fortunately I didn't get any wet patches around the headlining roof handles, but in searching for my leak I did find a completely separate one where the water was coming in from the side of the cowl. I positively stopped that leak by running extra sealant along the side 'rails' behind the cowling cap, as per post #37 of this thread. I never did determine where the water from this secondary leak was tracking to (and it was much smaller than the 'main' one that was causing the problem), but it's one other area for you to check out.

 

[Steve syvret]

Fortunately I didn't get any wet patches around the headlining roof handles, but in searching for my leak I did find a completely separate one where the water was coming in from the side of the cowl. I positively stopped that leak by running extra sealant along the side 'rails' behind the cowling cap, as per post #37 of this thread. I never did determine where the water from this secondary leak was tracking to (and it was much smaller than the 'main' one that was causing the problem), but it's one other area for you to check out.

Hi,
Thanks for thus brilliant explanation, I have a 2012 Cali, roof repaired under warranty in 2017 but today water was pouring in down both sides onto the carpet. Looking at the rear of the roof facia I noticed very badly corroded metal and a gap along most of the roof between facia and bodywork, so much for VW making this a proper repair.! Question is who can I trust to fix it properly ?

 

[WelshGas]

Hi,
Thanks for thus brilliant explanation, I have a 2012 Cali, roof repaired under warranty in 2017 but today water was pouring in down both sides onto the carpet. Looking at the rear of the roof facia I noticed very badly corroded metal and a gap along most of the roof between facia and bodywork, so much for VW making this a proper repair.! Question is who can I trust to fix it properly ?

View attachment 111262

Non VW.
Many bodyshops just concentrate on accident repairs. You need an independent body shop that specialise in renovating old/vintage vehicles repairing rather than just replacing.

 

[JezandcathBVW]

Thought it might be useful to give an update on our repair journey, its been a bit painful!: Links in with lots of items above and obviously our earlier posts. I'll give brief version, but do ask any questions if you think it will help:

1. Our leak above the A-pillar and headliner/handle definitely came from the rear of the cowel at the join with the elevating roof where the mastic joint (poor design) had failed. It only leaked when the van pointed down hill.
2. We thought it was through the 2no. rubber seal/drains(also poor design) that end up down the A-Pillar. After 2 failed visits back to the garage that sold it to us, and the promise that they had done this before, we ended up with a very poor looking repair and failed electrics totally unlinked to the original issue! This cost £1300 in total.
3. Lesson: Don't use a garage in Ipswich (I'll provide the name privately if you want it). Don't replace the rubber drain units unless you are completely sure they are the problem.
4. Finding garages in the Midlands to do this has been near impossible. Claridges (NW), mentioned by some have sadly stopped dealing with Cali's entirely. If you want electrics repaired there is a genius trading as CEDS in Hockley Birmingham who is brilliant. VW garages just use a local specialist. In Birmingham this is Clarke & Evans in Perry Barr, although we didn't use them in the end.
5. In the end the best route for us was do it oursleves. My wife removed all the defective sealant, used an epoxy to ensure there was no movement of the cowel and then re-sealanted with SIKA 522. She did a great job.
6. Another Lesson: Like others have said keep the front an rear drains at roof level cleared out regularly. Didn't end up being our fault but worth doing.

So after 3 years and £1300+ the leak is fixed and the electrics now work.

 

[KGCali]

Thought it might be useful to give an update on our repair journey, its been a bit painful!: Links in with lots of items above and obviously our earlier posts. I'll give brief version, but do ask any questions if you think it will help:

1. Our leak above the A-pillar and headliner/handle definitely came from the rear of the cowel at the join with the elevating roof where the mastic joint (poor design) had failed. It only leaked when the van pointed down hill.
2. We thought it was through the 2no. rubber seal/drains(also poor design) that end up down the A-Pillar. After 2 failed visits back to the garage that sold it to us, and the promise that they had done this before, we ended up with a very poor looking repair and failed electrics totally unlinked to the original issue! This cost £1300 in total.
3. Lesson: Don't use a garage in Ipswich (I'll provide the name privately if you want it). Don't replace the rubber drain units unless you are completely sure they are the problem.
4. Finding garages in the Midlands to do this has been near impossible. Claridges (NW), mentioned by some have sadly stopped dealing with Cali's entirely. If you want electrics repaired there is a genius trading as CEDS in Hockley Birmingham who is brilliant. VW garages just use a local specialist. In Birmingham this is Clarke & Evans in Perry Barr, although we didn't use them in the end.
5. In the end the best route for us was do it oursleves. My wife removed all the defective sealant, used an epoxy to ensure there was no movement of the cowel and then re-sealanted with SIKA 522. She did a great job.
6. Another Lesson: Like others have said keep the front an rear drains at roof level cleared out regularly. Didn't end up being our fault but worth doing.

So after 3 years and £1300+ the leak is fixed and the electrics now work.

Any photo's of your wife's repair, she could be in demand
Glad you got it all sorted even though it was a painful journey.

 

[Lambeth Cali]

After 15 years of ownership I’ve learnt:

For the engine and mechanicals just go to any good garage. Every town has VW specialists.

For electrics, normal garages aren’t great so type “auto electrician” into Google and read reviews. They are often excellent and know what they’re doing.

Everything camping related, try and learn how it works, read the excellent posts here and ultimately do it yourself. The roof has two clear problems - the sensors and the corrosion/leaks (of which there are dozens of variations). VW garages haven’t got a clue how to fix either but will happily charge you £1000 to have a go. They will often make it worse.

I have had to spend £400-£500 about 5 times, but that includes brakes. But in 15 years I think that’s pretty damn good.

Edit: Moo valve fixed today for £162 parts, labour and VAT. Any bill that starts with a 1 is great.