Which electric car to buy?

[Lambeth Cali]

The Telegraph seem to be pro-EV all of a sudden! I wonder why?

 

[soulstyledevon]

That’s some miles…

 

[Barry Chuckle]

On the subject of EV's I've got a question that some of the more technically minded members maybe able to answer for me. I'm of the maybe cynical view that PHEV's are a waste of time other than the tax breaks and you only get anywhere close to the claimed MPG if you manually charge it up all the time.
For example the new RR Sport PHEV has a 32kwh battery which has an electric only real world range of 50 miles. So by my reckoning at say 32p/KWH charging at home on a standard tariff from empty those 50 miles would cost £10.24 in electricity. Have I done my calculations right? as if this is the case you're better not charging it and running it on petrol instead which to me defeats the point?

 

[flying banana]

On the subject of EV's I've got a question that some of the more technically minded members maybe able to answer for me. I'm of the maybe cynical view that PHEV's are a waste of time other than the tax breaks and you only get anywhere close to the claimed MPG if you manually charge it up all the time.
For example the new RR Sport PHEV has a 32kwh battery which has an electric only real world range of 50 miles. So by my reckoning at say 32p/KWH charging at home on a standard tariff from empty those 50 miles would cost £10.24 in electricity. Have I done my calculations right? as if this is the case you're better not charging it and running it on petrol instead which to me defeats the point?

You are correct. What they've done here is make electric cars too expensive and more expensive BEFORE getting rid of ice. Have a look at macmaster. I wouldn't have one of those milk floats if the government paid.me

 

[Boomer]

On the subject of EV's I've got a question that some of the more technically minded members maybe able to answer for me. I'm of the maybe cynical view that PHEV's are a waste of time other than the tax breaks and you only get anywhere close to the claimed MPG if you manually charge it up all the time.
For example the new RR Sport PHEV has a 32kwh battery which has an electric only real world range of 50 miles. So by my reckoning at say 32p/KWH charging at home on a standard tariff from empty those 50 miles would cost £10.24 in electricity. Have I done my calculations right? as if this is the case you're better not charging it and running it on petrol instead which to me defeats the point?

Unless you're on an EV tariff in which case it's just over £2. But I would suggest anyone getting an RR PHEV is not doing it for the mpg, but the tax breaks.

 

[Lambeth Cali]

On the subject of EV's I've got a question that some of the more technically minded members maybe able to answer for me. I'm of the maybe cynical view that PHEV's are a waste of time other than the tax breaks and you only get anywhere close to the claimed MPG if you manually charge it up all the time.
For example the new RR Sport PHEV has a 32kwh battery which has an electric only real world range of 50 miles. So by my reckoning at say 32p/KWH charging at home on a standard tariff from empty those 50 miles would cost £10.24 in electricity. Have I done my calculations right? as if this is the case you're better not charging it and running it on petrol instead which to me defeats the point?

You would want a BMW X5 45e I think. Much better numbers AND an EV tariff or solar panels.
See Harry’s Garage review.

 

[B J G]

On the subject of EV's I've got a question that some of the more technically minded members maybe able to answer for me. I'm of the maybe cynical view that PHEV's are a waste of time other than the tax breaks and you only get anywhere close to the claimed MPG if you manually charge it up all the time.
For example the new RR Sport PHEV has a 32kwh battery which has an electric only real world range of 50 miles. So by my reckoning at say 32p/KWH charging at home on a standard tariff from empty those 50 miles would cost £10.24 in electricity. Have I done my calculations right? as if this is the case you're better not charging it and running it on petrol instead which to me defeats the point?

As I understand it the whole point of PHEV's through to EV's is about Emissions and not cost saving to the Driver.

The real world is about transport cost to the Driver which is why sales to the general private Driver isn't going to Political plan (notion).

 

[JuanVecino2023]

On the subject of EV's I've got a question that some of the more technically minded members maybe able to answer for me. I'm of the maybe cynical view that PHEV's are a waste of time other than the tax breaks and you only get anywhere close to the claimed MPG if you manually charge it up all the time.
For example the new RR Sport PHEV has a 32kwh battery which has an electric only real world range of 50 miles. So by my reckoning at say 32p/KWH charging at home on a standard tariff from empty those 50 miles would cost £10.24 in electricity. Have I done my calculations right? as if this is the case you're better not charging it and running it on petrol instead which to me defeats the point?

Calculation is correct. When you convert that cost back into effective MPG, it looks even more expensive!

Only works for business users for the reduced BIK. Drivers often chose PHEV as a bridge if they were uncertain about local EV infrastructure.

I have one. In theory it returns 65 MPG across ICE/BEV. It’s fine for local commutes, which is the basis of the theory - average round trip commutes are less than the full range on EV.

In reality, on long journeys once you are on ICE only when the battery runs out, it’s a heavy car returning sub 30 MPG.

However, if you run the numbers using an Octopus home charging tariff, it’s far more appealing.

 

[Lambeth Cali]

A lot of it comes down to your daily use. If you do a 10 mile commute every day in a Phev with 25 mile range you can do that commute very cheaply, especially on an overnight EV tariff. If you are a daily commuter then you are probably be open to BIK savings too.

I do a 12 mile commute at 12mph (slower today) 4 times a week. In my Golf I was paying about £45 a week in fuel. Absolutely awful. In my 2nd hand 5 year old EV, at full price of 28.45p kWh, that weekly 100 miles costs £7.11. On my Octopus overnight 9pence kWh it costs £2.25. To be honest I think its nearer £3.

The economics of a Range Rover PHEV are clearly going to be different. Probably less bothered about saving £40 a week.

@Barry Chuckle is a BMW iX out of the question...? Capable of a real world 3 miles per kWh which is pretty damn efficient.

 

[Boomer]

We've had our Model Y long range since December '23. Big, (very) fast, and comfortable. Winter range was around 275 miles, but summer range is well over 300. Recent 118m trip used just a third of the battery and returned almost 5 miles/kWh. That's a full range of 350 miles.

Apart from twice, we've charged from home at 7.5ppkwh. The 5,000 miles we've done had cost £100 (that could be anything from £800 to £1000) in an ICE car. The added bonus is that the EV tariff we're on brings our total household tariff rate down to less than 14ppkwh.

I get that EVs don't work as well as ICE cars in some circumstances, but to simply write them off as useless, as some do, misses some of the many positives.

 

[flying banana]

We've had our Model Y long range since December '23. Big, (very) fast, and comfortable. Winter range was around 275 miles, but summer range is well over 300. Recent 118m trip used just a third of the battery and returned almost 5 miles/kWh. That's a full range of 350 miles.

Apart from twice, we've charged from home at 7.5ppkwh. The 5,000 miles we've done had cost £100 (that could be anything from £800 to £1000) in an ICE car. The added bonus is that the EV tariff we're on brings our total household tariff rate down to less than 14ppkwh.

I get that EVs don't work as well as ICE cars in some circumstances, but to simply write them off as useless, as some do, misses some of the many positives.

View attachment 123335

And how much was it to buy? That's the main negative for most people running 2 grand cars to get to work cleaning hotels and working in restaurants. 50k?

 

[Boomer]

And how much was it to buy? That's the main negative for most people running 2 grand cars to get to work cleaning hotels and working in restaurants. 50k?

Not sure what you're point is to be honest. I get you don't like EVs. That's fine. I even (very clearly) said that EVs don't work for some people, so agree with you.

EVs are relatively new tech so they're not going to be £2k. But £2k cars are still available I understand. Unless I'm missing something?

But there are cheaper EVs, and the second hand values are coming down and latest data shows that 2nd hand EV sales are now a growing area. Technology will progress and production costs will come down and eventually you will get £2k EVs.

 

[flying banana]

Was trying to say the country runs on 2k cars. People need cheap run around to get to work doing mundane jobs and evs just aren't cheap, i dont know what people are going to do when theyre forced to spend 50k on a car to go to their cleaning night shift,as for 2nd hand evs i cant see them selling,bit like 2nd hand phones,rubbish. As for charging at home and cost its ok if you have a nice middle class drive way and a modern electric connection, but millions of people don't. I've got a drive way by the way, although I class myself as posh where I live. I even get out the shower for a p1ss.

 

[Winston Rumfoord]

I’ve got a 2nd hand EV that cost less than £10k. I’ve got a 2nd hand phone too. I don’t have a night cleaning job but I’m also not a TfL office manager. I do find my job incredibly mundane and I do occasionally wee in the shower.

I am terrified about being forced to spend £50k on a car - how can this be allowed to happen when we’ve Taken Back Control!?

 

[SusiBus]

Taken control. Not only are even more people taking a boat trip to be in the UK. It a appears that even more California T.6.1 are due to make the boat trip to take up residence in the UK in the next few months.

 

[Barry Chuckle]

A lot of it comes down to your daily use. If you do a 10 mile commute every day in a Phev with 25 mile range you can do that commute very cheaply, especially on an overnight EV tariff. If you are a daily commuter then you are probably be open to BIK savings too.

I do a 12 mile commute at 12mph (slower today) 4 times a week. In my Golf I was paying about £45 a week in fuel. Absolutely awful. In my 2nd hand 5 year old EV, at full price of 28.45p kWh, that weekly 100 miles costs £7.11. On my Octopus overnight 9pence kWh it costs £2.25. To be honest I think its nearer £3.

The economics of a Range Rover PHEV are clearly going to be different. Probably less bothered about saving £40 a week.

@Barry Chuckle is a BMW iX out of the question...? Capable of a real world 3 miles per kWh which is pretty damn efficient.

I do actually own an EV, a Volvo XC40 Recharge. Ashamed to say purely for the tax breaks, I live in rural Shropshire and it's a challenge for my sometimes long journeys. The difference between warm days and the depths of winter is astonishing, I'd say a third to 40% worse.

You're right costs aren't going to be at the top of the list for a RR Sport owner, but I thought I'd use that as an example as it's currently one of the longest range PHEV's around. But most drivers will simply fill with cheaper petrol rather than charge at home.

 

[This_one_goes_to_eleven]

I do actually own an EV, a Volvo XC40 Recharge. Ashamed to say purely for the tax breaks, I live in rural Shropshire and it's a challenge for my sometimes long journeys. The difference between warm days and the depths of winter is astonishing, I'd say a third to 40% worse.

You're right costs aren't going to be at the top of the list for a RR Sport owner, but I thought I'd use that as an example as it's currently one of the longest range PHEV's around. But most drivers will simply fill with cheaper petrol rather than charge at home.

You shouldn’t be astonished by chemistry. Not in a bad way anyway .

 

[Barry Chuckle]

You shouldn’t be astonished by chemistry. Not in a bad way anyway .

I was that bad a Chemistry at school I was told to drop it for GCSE

I knew range would be worse in the winter, but the spin the EV friendly press spin it will be around 15% - 20% worse. Whereas in owning 2 EV's I can say it's double that.

 

[This_one_goes_to_eleven]

I was that bad a Chemistry at school I was told to drop it for GCSE

I knew range would be worse in the winter, but the spin the EV friendly press spin it will be around 15% - 20% worse. Whereas in owning 2 EV's I can say it's double that.

Well it seems to vary between EVS a bit then. Tesla is about 20% less for me. Haven’t driven any others though these 4 yrs owning one through about 120k miles.

 

[Wildcamper]

I will never buy a 100% battery vehicle, hybrid maybe, but one of these absolutely should they become available in the UK with infrastructure. They make far more sense for the rural and other non-city/town dwellers. Battery EVs really only work well in cities/towns where they make complete sense.

Prior to retirement I worked on FC systems for some considerable time - brilliant technology.

How Honda and GM are proving hydrogen cars can work | Autocar

The American-developed system gets 372 miles to a tank, and has vastly reduced development costs

www.autocar.co.uk

 

[Ch1pbutty]

They make far more sense for the rural and other non-city/town dwellers. Battery EVs really only work well in cities/towns where they make complete sense.

EV’s work anywhere where you have access to an electricity supply. The filling network is already in place + all houses have access to electricity.

 

[Georgeo]

EV’s work anywhere where you have access to an electricity supply. The filling network is already in place + all houses have access to electricity.

But not all houses have driveways

 

[pjm-84]

That would be typically houses when cars didn't exist and the solution is not difficult. What is difficult is supply and diversity of the supply

 

[Lambeth Cali]

Either way, hydrogen infrastructure is for the birds. Electricity should be simple but clearly isn’t working quickly enough. We could build a perfect car that runs off custard but with no likely custard infrastructure it’s useless.

Currently in my house there is a lot of electricity, a bit of custard and no hydrogen. And yes I know it’s in air and water.

 

[Boomer]

A fairly balanced article on hydrogen pros and cons. Basically, less efficient than most other fuel types, including battery only:

Will hydrogen overtake batteries in the race for zero-emission cars?

In part six of our series exploring myths surrounding EVs, we weigh up what will be the power of the future

www.theguardian.com